Wessex HC2 Crab Cabs Pt II (Fly Wessex - why on earth did I?)

[hendie]

I think so Pete. 

[hendie]

Back from the travels again.  Oh what fun we had on this trip.  We managed to pick a hotel that was undergoing renovations but omitted to display such information on the web site... Look out Hilton, you have a nastygram coming!  My room wasn't bad, however one of my travel buddies had a rather more interesting time of things.   His floor had just been finished and released back to public use, but it appeared they had been in a little bit of a hurry when it came to putting the doors back on the rooms. (you can see this coming can't you?)  The doors were back on oh yes, but not necessarily back on the same room! 

It took them about three hours to sort it out - resolved only by programming a set of keys for every room on the floor and sending the engineers out on a scouting mission to navigate the door fiasco and figure out which room had which door lock.  Oh how we laughed.  Well, two if us did - the third wasn't quite so joyous.

 

Anyhoos, back to reality...

I just spent ages looking at this photo trying to remember why I took it and what it showed... eventually it came to me - The rear console! 'doh!  The kit part sits directly on the no longer a floor part, and is square at the bottom, so out with the files and I started to shape the bottom end into a slope which will hopefully at some point meet up with the cabin forward bulkhead. 

I also took the plunge and glued in the fwd bulkhead and the cockpit floor.  That was a bit of a leap of faith for me - the lack of location features continues to frustrate me.

 

 

Though I use the term glued in rather loosely.  It does touch the inside of the fuselage briefly and in an occasional way, though more of a fleeting, in passing kind of way. With the cabin bulkhead and the cockpit floor in place there are only three small areas where they all contact.  Methinks that some support blocks will be coming into play.

 

 

I made the small cover panel that sits at the front of the cabin - I have no idea what this is for - probably a locker for the loadies sandwiches. The panel was made from .005 brass sheet, and a block of styrene glued behind it.  That has since gone off to the paint shop and has also had a handle fitted.

 

 

While Fly have done some good things with this release, they have also made some real gaffs in my opinion.  For instance, take a look at the fuel points in this photo. Neither of them bear any resemblance to the real thing. Something has to be done here, so I drilled out the openings

 

 

Then added the strengthening panels. Also just visible up the front end is the front earthing connection which was made from brass tube. (the rear hasn't been done yet)

 

 

Once the glue had fully cured I set about opening up the fuel access point with a round file

 

 

Once that was completed, I went to add a backing piece inside the fuselage and found that the depth through the kit was too great.  That resulted in me digging out the rear with a chisel. And in a moment of carelessness, or maybe frustration, I popped the chisel right through the front.  Angry I was!!!

I've repaired it as best I can but need to wait for the glue curing before I can do any more. I'll squirt some primer on it tomorrow to see just what kind of mess I'm dealing with.

 

 

So while I was cursing myself for such carelessness, I started making up the fuel filler cap from the following recipe:  2 x styrene discs, 1 x flattened lead wire, and 1 x small section of styrene rod. Simply add glue to taste, then stir well.

 

 

And a quick dry fit.  There's still some more work to do here - particularly after my stuff-up, but it's still way better than the kit offering.

And once it's all painted black, you'll never notice any of the detail anyway!

 

 

Something that went a little better - for a little while at least - was the seats.  Two bracing rods were added, then I used the 1-2-3 block as a support for the legs while I soldered them in place using the Tix low temp solder. (which is an absolute pleasure to use I might add)

 

 

When it came to a dry fit I discovered that I had one leg slightly out of place, but nothing too drastic.  I still haven't decided whether to remove it and refit or just leave as is.

 

 

Of more concern is the seat height.  I have followed the dimensions of the kit for the seat but I'm not sure if it is too low  ?   At least, that was my first thought, though the more I look at the photo below, the more I am beginning to think that the height is okay.

 

 

Thoughts ?

 

 

[perdu]

As you might guess I have built Wessex seats several times

 

Yours look the vernacular dog's

 

The height would fall within my best guess parameters

 

I haven't ever sat inside a Wessex but I have had the experience of sitting inside her little sister on basically the same seats

 

I was with my ATC cadets when we were entertained as guests by 202 sqn at RAF Leconfield during the time that Whirlwind was the normal SAR bird

 

We sat inside the Whirlwind whilst the duty Space Cadet bod gave us the spiel and warning that we might have to exit the pan at any time if a call came in

 

The seats were just like these for height I'd say

 

Good work solderer, solder on!

[Martian]

The seat height looks about right to me.

 

Martian

[Wafu]

Hendie, the seats look bob-on from a height and pole diameter prospective, I'm presuming you've not put you're soldering iron away though, you might like to look at the brace strut that comes from the outboard side and fix'es to the deck via a pip pin. Also, on the mk2 they had a Honeycomb panel running parallel to the front cabin bulkhead, it's to cover something pinkey wise I think🤔

 

Now Scale Model World is done, Ive turned my attention to the nose door intake area, I'm trying to model the intake down to the elephants feet and on to the engine front oil tank seals.

 

Keep posting the updates, eagerly watching.

 

Cheers the Woo.

 

[TheBaron]

I'd chip in with the observation that I felt the same way about the seats I built for my C-119 hendie until paranoiacally confirming they were right against every available photo.

This is XR517 from oop North of here which seems to suggest that you're pretty bang-on height wise:

The angled bracket seems to meet the cabin floor, but I'm guessing any excess is to allow for mounting the uprights into holes in the floor?

Your floor has better stains then theirs btw.

(I see Wafu beat me to that bracket comment whilst I was typing...)

 

[71chally]

Superb work Hendie, truly the modellers art on display in that interior.

[huvut76g7gbbui7]

Looking very nice indeed.

I've never tried soldering,wonder if it is worth it in 1/72nd?

Always learning on here. I've just noticed in The Baron's photo that the seat backs don't join at the back of the bottom part (if that makes sense) but a few inches in from it.

 

[Bigdave22014]

1 hour ago, Scimitar said:

Looking very nice indeed.

I've never tried soldering,wonder if it is worth it in 1/72nd?

Always learning on here. I've just noticed in The Baron's photo that the seat backs don't join at the back of the bottom part (if that makes sense) but a few inches in from it.

 

If you're doing metal-metal joins then yes, soldering is useful in any scale - especially for wire-framework like Hendie's seats where glue just won't be as strong.

[hendie]

2 hours ago, Scimitar said:

I've never tried soldering,wonder if it is worth it in 1/72nd?

 

Without doubt - yes.  There's a sharpness and definition when using metal rod that just is not achievable with plastic, and as Bigdave states, the join is much stronger than glue.

I have found it to be an invaluable tool in several builds. Again, as Bigdave mentions, especially for wire framework construction - Plastic tends to be a lot thicker (to have enough strength) than it should be in those scales. So replacing it with a smaller diameter metal provides a much more realistic effect.

 

 

2 hours ago, Wafu said:

Ive turned my attention to the nose door intake area, I'm trying to model the intake down to the elephants feet and on to the engine front oil tank seals.

 

I've still got that pleasure to come.  I'm not looking forward to making a grill

 

2 hours ago, Wafu said:

you might like to look at the brace strut that comes from the outboard side and fix'es to the deck via a pip pin

 

Still to be done.  I remembered all about that during my previous Wessex build - then promptly forgot all about those supports when it came time to fit the seats.  This time they're going in.

 

 

2 hours ago, TheBaron said:

The angled bracket seems to meet the cabin floor, but I'm guessing any excess is to allow for mounting the uprights into holes in the floor?

Your floor has better stains then theirs btw.

(I see Wafu beat me to that bracket comment whilst I was typing...)

 

You're right, my angled bracket is a bit short and the bottom end of it is too high.  I need to revisit that.

I believe Wafu is talking about another, different support bracket.  There is another support rod which swings out from the back rail of the seat and is pip pinned to the floor. (or I could be misinterpreting your post)

If you look at the (very useful) photo you posted above, you can just see it behind the grey legs in the middle of the picture.

 

I still have not come across any better information on the cabin seat spacing on the port side since the itlaeri event, so I'm going to wing it again this time around - unless anyone has definitive info on how the seats were configured of course!

 

[hendie]

Okay back to the drawing board then.  I gave a quick squirt of primer over the fuel filler ports, but wasn't entirely happy with the result.  It doesn't show up all that well here, but around the perimeter of the strengthening panel, you (well, I...) can clearly see where I messed up and where the plastic has deformed. 

I may have a go at repairing it but I have a feeling it's all going to come off - I have the birthing pains of an almost cunning plan forming deep in the recesses of my mind.

 

 

With a Sgian-dubh of disappointment firmly impaled in my modelers mojo, I changed tack again.  Getting away from the fuselage, or at least that part of it, my gaze fell upon the tail section.  That looked simple enough - should slap together in an hour or two eh?

Then I started looking at it.      Nope.. ain't gonna cut it I'm afraid.  The end frame inside the tail was a bit of a mess - this is it after some clean up.  The round hole wasn't round, it was a bit too small, and in the wrong place. The square hole above it was approximately in the right pace, but was only half a hole, and I don't see that the sticky-outy box exists at all in the Wessex tail folds I've seen.

Can you guess where I'm going with this ?

 

 

Ha!   Fooled you !

I'm not sure this is going to work so bear with me while I try some things out.

I used the styrene to create a template of the inside contour, then used the styrene to shape some brass sheet to fit in there.  The .005" brass is pretty flimsy so needs some beef, or to be more precise, some styrene, behind it.

 

 

With the intent that it all goes together like this.

 

 

The real panel has a curved lip around the lightening hole so I gave a few tries at getting the same effect on some scrap brass sheet...without any real success.

 

 

So, in the end I just went with the standard hole shaped hole.

Now this next bit was a real challenge. Running up the center line of the panel is a small length of angle.  I happened to have some 1/32 (I think) angle kicking about so thought 'hey this can't be that hard can it?'

The first challenge was to tin one side along the length of the angle - that was reasonably straightforward.

 

 

My plan was to hold the angle against the panel then press the soldering iron against the angle hoping the heat would transfer through the angle to the sheet, melt the solder in the process, and stick the whole shebang together.

Here we are about 6 attempts later.  The first attempt was almost a resounding success, except the angle wasn't running true along the panel centerline - not by much - just enough to annoy the bejesus out of me.  Then for some reason it became increasingly harder to get the thing to work.  Eventually I got something that I could live with.

After that episode, I was daft enough to think that I could use a rivet tool to rivet some small brass strips to form the two hinge panels... and killed a fair amount of brass in the process.  Eventually, my sloth like grey cells lighted upon the 'doh! solution, my old favorite... aluminum tape!

Within a few tries I had some strips that looked like they would work.  In this shot they are being positioned so that they run between the hinge locations on the kit sides.

 

 

A quick squirt of etch primer later.

I'm not entirely sold yet on the aluminum tape idea.  I may experiment some more when the slow boat from China eventually gets here with my long awaited magical bits n bobs n stuff.  In the mean time I'll continue with this to see how it looks.

 

 

Inside, I added a couple of support brackets to hold the pipe/rod that can be seen through the mesh. I was aware of this in my last Wessex build but as is often the case, simply forgot to add it when the time came.  In most photo's I can also spot a small loop of cable hanging down in there... will be added later (if I remember!)

 

 

Now, over the last week or so, it appears that the latest craze in modeling is to create pseudo animals of one sort or another, so I though I'd join in too.  Perdu came up with a small Scottie dog, while our Crisp made a rather cute  little headless lion

I present to you, my short bodied pygmy giraffe

 

 

I really wanted to make one of these, the somehow inexplicably cute and cuddly Pallas cat ( Otocolobus manul ) of Central Asia, seen here auditioning for a role in Johnny Depp's latest Caribbeany like Buccaneer adventure, but I couldn't get the pose quite right.

 

 

This last shot has things in position.  If you look carefully, you can see I have added another frame/bulkhead just behind the primed effort. Both that, and the styrene support for the brass panel are being glued into one side of the tail - which explains why the brass sheet is kind of falling about a bit in there.

 

 

I'm also not a great fan of the hinges and other bits that Fly have provided for the tail so I see more scratching in my future.

 

adios mon modeleers

 

 

 

[Martian]

An interesting update Hendie, I love the shot of the moggie.

 

Cat Lover of Mars

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

7 hours ago, hendie said:

...a Sgian-dubh of disappointment firmly...

 

 

Do you keep that near the Sporran of Satisfaction and the Quaich of Over-Sized Rivets?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Massimo, if you’re reading this, as an Englishman I apologise on behalf of my Scottish  cousins: a Sgian-dubh is a kind of dagger you keep in your socks, a Sporran is a Jock handbag inexplicably worn in front of one’s private parts, and a Quaich is a flat vessel designed for drinking whisky.  And Gallic is a wonderful language, but it ain’t half got weird spelling!]

[Wafu]

Nice addition to the build thread, I feel your pain with the tail pylon brake, with my build I just modelled it spread so happy days, but you were never going to do that😂😂😂

Don't fear the grille, I found just the right size mesh at scale model world this month, I'll email you a pic. Just for giggles, did you see the gold medal winner in the helicopter class 1/48 and above this year? Not sure I'd agree with the judge/s on that one, if you find a picture you'll see what I mean, supprisingly from a top class modeller who I hold in regard, just goes to show we all make referance mistakes. Back in the room now.

 

Looking good though, keep going.

 

The Woo.

[hendie]

8 hours ago, Wafu said:

did you see the gold medal winner in the helicopter class 1/48 and above this year?

 

unfortunately no - the 7000 mile round trip was a bit too much for me.  I am interesting in seeing what you describe though... sounds interesting. - any chance of a pointer to where I can view aforementioned beastie?

 

I was more concerned at forming the framework around the mesh than the mesh itself.  I just got away with it in my 1/48 build but the larger scale means I'll have to be a lot more careful.

 

9 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

a Sporran is a Jock handbag inexplicably worn in front of one’s private parts

 

filled with hot porridge it can be wonderfully comforting on a cold winters day !

[Pete in Lincs]

33 minutes ago, hendie said:

any chance of a pointer?

For me too. You have my intrigue gland interested.

 

Hendie, It's all looking very Wessexy.

I like the tape solution. Might have to steal that one.

[Massimo]

WOW WOW WOW!!!!

That filler cap can sing and the tail's fonding system and internal drive look better than the real thing!!!

The seats' frame...I could sit on that without breaking it!!!....well...this is probably too much!!!

I really got involved with the drama of this build!!!

Great modelling!!!

BRAVO!!!

Massimo

Edited November 22, 2017 by massimo2
added "BRAVO!!!"

[huvut76g7gbbui7]

11 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

 And Gallic

I didn't know the French spoke Gaelic 

 

Sorry Hendie,couldn't resist this wee hijack.

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

1 hour ago, Scimitar said:

I didn't know the French spoke Gaelic 

 

Sorry Hendie,couldn't resist this wee hijack.

Pesky auto-correct!  

 

 

 

 

 

Even the Jocks often pronounce it “gallic”... (but I’m not going to pretend that this was what I meant all along...)

[hendie]

quick question... does anyone have any links to, or photo's or drawings of the intermediate and tail rotor gearboxes ? 

I'm coming up empty with my searches

Edited November 22, 2017 by hendie

[Wafu]

3 hours ago, hendie said:

 

unfortunately no - the 7000 mile round trip was a bit too much for me.  I am interesting in seeing what you describe though... sounds interesting. - any chance of a pointer to where I can view aforementioned beastie?

 

For you guys to ponder....

 

http://imodeler.com/2017/11/another-imodeler-mamber-smw-gold/

 

[huvut76g7gbbui7]

1 hour ago, hendie said:

quick question... does anyone have any links to, or photo's or drawings of the intermediate and tail rotor gearboxes

Didn't do more than a quick scan of this Wessex restoration project so don't know if it helps.

http://www.hmfriends.org.uk/hmvrestorwesx60pge6.htm

 

Also found this cutaway.Haven't enlarged it to see if any better detail.

 

[keefr22]

57 minutes ago, Wafu said:

For you guys to ponder....

 

http://imodeler.com/2017/11/another-imodeler-mamber-smw-gold/

 

That one was also entered for our club's Memorial Trophy for a late member (theme of the Royal Navy), and it came pretty close to winning that too, just a couple of points less than the actual winner. The thing is, judges are not expected to know the subject to any extent, the categories for judging being aimed at construction,painting and finishing of the model with no marks for accuracy . My fellow judge & I are certainly in no way helicopter, and definitely not Wessex 'experts', so how could we know what was 'wrong' with the model that people who have extensive knowledge of the beast can spot in a cursory glance?  I have no idea what you can see that's wrong with it. We just saw a nicely built & finished model, posed on a base that gained it a couple of points in the 'overall realism' category. We actually awarded our trophy to another 48th Wessex, a derelict one that I suspect was a HAS3, but didn't say on the entry card, so I couldn't actually say that it was that variant - all I know it was yellow over RAF Blue Grey....that shows the extent of my Wessex knowledge!! 

 

I can't talk for the Wessex knowledge of the judges that awarded that model it's gold medal, but I do know they would have judged it to exactly the same categories as we did and ...

13 hours ago, Wafu said:

just goes to show we all make referance mistakes.

 

...reference mistakes made by the modeller wouldn't have been one of them....

 

Not trying to start any arguments about judging at SMW, just trying to say that decisions have to be made on the model itself not on the fidelity to the real thing it's actually portraying. 

 

Keith

[Wafu]

9 hours ago, keefr22 said:

That one was also entered for our club's Memorial Trophy for a late member (theme of the Royal Navy), and it came pretty close to winning that too, just a couple of points less than the actual winner. The thing is, judges are not expected to know the subject to any extent, the categories for judging being aimed at construction,painting and finishing of the model with no marks for accuracy . My fellow judge & I are certainly in no way helicopter, and definitely not Wessex 'experts', so how could we know what was 'wrong' with the model that people who have extensive knowledge of the beast can spot in a cursory glance?  I have no idea what you can see that's wrong with it. We just saw a nicely built & finished model, posed on a base that gained it a couple of points in the 'overall realism' category. We actually awarded our trophy to another 48th Wessex, a derelict one that I suspect was a HAS3, but didn't say on the entry card, so I couldn't actually say that it was that variant - all I know it was yellow over RAF Blue Grey....that shows the extent of my Wessex knowledge!! 

 

I can't talk for the Wessex knowledge of the judges that awarded that model it's gold medal, but I do know they would have judged it to exactly the same categories as we did and ...

 

...reference mistakes made by the modeller wouldn't have been one of them....

 

Not trying to start any arguments about judging at SMW, just trying to say that decisions have to be made on the model itself not on the fidelity to the real thing it's actually portraying. 

 

Keith

Hendie, I hope you don't mind if I reply to Keith via your build thread, apologies if you do.

 

Keith, I was merely pointing out, to Hendie, that a competing entry in the International Scale Modelling UK show had such glaring mistakes, the fact that the builder of this helicopter negated to realise the mistakes or fail to read the instructions of the aftermarket parts he/she is using was a let down. The owner of the model need only pop onto the Internet and type in Wessex 5, the kit he's building, and go to images, a plethora of images is set before him, both models and the real thing. If he is a member of this web forum he could have seen the excellent  builds that have gone before, with handy comments to avoid the kit manufactures gottcha's. I'm not saying the kit wasn't finished on a par with its fellow competition entries, although I did feel it lacked a suitable panel shading etc akin to the real Wessex in either service or as a museum exhibit, so I guess I am. 

 

With regards to the judging, the model you judged and awarded, was in my mind ahead of the Wessex V I'm talking about, the blade fold saddles were in the correct place, unlike the Wessex V, the overall build and finish was in my opinion on par if not slightly ahead of the Wessex V, it also demonstrated a further skill in weathering to depict a scene. As I understand it you were part of the judging team on the day? If so I can't get my head around your statement saying "My fellow judge & I are certainly in no way helicopter, and definitely not Wessex 'experts" if this is true then why are you judging this class? I was fortunate to have won a gold medal at this years comp, I'd like to think the person/s who judged the class I entered had a modelling knowledge of the subject I and my fellow entries submitted our work to? I'd also like to hope that the IPMS annual comp was not only drawing all walks of modellers to its tables but that the judges were selected by their knowledge of the subject, even if it was just one judge in the panel of judges who could be confired with, obviously not by your text. On a subject that is 'non fiction' real life with a well documented library of referance, I'm astounded that this model can be seen by the judges to be correct, it's just my opinion though, or is it? 

 

Putting my money where my mouth is:- I will approach Tony Horton and volenteer myself to be a judge of the helicopter classes next year, if as you say there are no helicopter enthusiasts on the judging panel then maybe Tony would consider adding one? I'm no expert, I loath the word and its meaning, I am though an enthusiastic lover of helicopters with 37 years of working on and around a good many military and civil helicopters and a weakness for modelling helicopters that I have a deep knowledge of and modelling ones I have a passing interest in.

 

Thank you Hendie for allowing me to reply to Keith via your build thread.

 

Regards the Woo.

 

[perdu]

Woo I don't suppose you've realised the context of Keith's piece from the above

 

I know he will tell you himself but it might clarify it a bit if I tell you he was adjudging Royal Navy entries of any subject in order to give a trophy

 

The RN entries could I suspect have included figures, dioramas, countless ships and aircraft over the very wide spectrum within the Royal Navy remit

 

The fact that a helicopter model or two were in the running speaks highly of the quality of modelling on that particular table, it seems to me

 

There were many wonderful ships that didn't win too and I never had time to see the figure categories in depth

 

Too much club stand business for that this year

 

Just so you don't think the judging was incompetent from IPMS point of view