Date of manufacture of a Typhoon

[pierre66]

That, my friends, is a simple question.

Can you, like the spits, know when a Typhoon is out of factory ??

For example, the MN 877.
It is known that it was lost on August 19, 44, at 198sq, pilot Francois Bonnet, but when was it built?

What I have best comes from an old "Fana":
Slice MM 351 / MP 203, produced by Gloster between January and August 44, MN 877 is on the end, June / July, so fairly new to its disappearance.
Four blades with large Stabil ...

As a corollary, is there a way of knowing when it arrives in a unit ??
Know the exact dates and JANUARY and AUGUST of the beginning and end of production of this unit at GLOSTER?

 

And please, please, do not say to me as a French friend: "There is one thing that is sure Pierre is that his exit is prior to the date of his loss on August 19, 1944 ..."

[Grey Beema]

Aren't Typhoons a bit complicated with their build dates?  I think airframes were stockpiled because of the development issues with the Sabre engines.  As soon as complete airframes were issues to Squadrons there seemed to be an ongoing program of rollling them through various upgrades, fishplates, cockpit, four blade prop, Tempest tails etc, indeed some went straight through the upgrade program before going to Squadrons.  To expand your original question should it be a multiple answer, airframe complete, various upgrades etc?

[Troy Smith]

this is @Chris Thomas  question,   (@  bit should give him a notification.)

 

When Airfix did their 1/24th Typhoon,  there was an article online (and in  Airfix Model World?)  which did give this kind of information,  but that  was written by  Chris anyway.

[pierre66]

Chris... please!

 

Here is a possibilty to know when a plane arrive in a squadron... of Typhoon?

[Chris Thomas]

Yes, Tony, right up my street!

 

Pierre, the amount of information on individual Typhoons varies indifferent periods and units, but in MN877's case you are lucky. The first date recorded is usually its delivery to the RAF, in this case it was to 51 MU RAF Lichfield on 7 June 1944. However, I have copy of Allan Smith 's logbook; he was between operational tours and was employed as a production test pilot at the Gloster factory where most Typhoons were built. He recorded MN877's first flight on 2 June 1944.

 

It is next recorded with 198 Sqn on 29 June 1944 ( it would have gone  from 51 MU to 84 GSU and then to the squadron) where it was coded TP-Y. From another form, OR 101, we know MN877 was damaged by flak on 18 July 1944 and went to 409 R&SU for repairs and was returned to 198 Sqn on 29 July 1944. It went missing along with its pilot, Sgt Chef F.Bonnet 19 August 1944 somewhere near Vimoutiers, at the height of the 'Falaise Gap' operations.

 

i know a French group was trying to find the cash site. Do you know any more about it?

Yes it had a 4- blader and the large 'Tempest' tailplane.

CT

[pierre66]

Chris, thanks a lot for those cute datas! Its all i research!

 

No idea about french group. I ask to frends and if i find something i turn back here !

 

Where i can found picture of coulored cockpit for cardoor and fourbladed Typfie! Here is diference of internal painting?

 

PS: I think next year i will visit your county on th eway to Corwall holidays! I am bigining all the trip and recognize all what is nice to see!!!

 

And still SORRY FOR MY FRENCY ENGLISH!!

[Antoine]

Hi Chris, and thanks.

Does OR 101 gives tips about the kind of damage (Which area?) suffered by the Tiffie?

Also, as the delay between arrival at 409 R&SU on 18 july, and departure on 29 is quite short, and depending on the FLAK damage, could we assume that MN877 was not given a full paint job, but just touched up, as it was certainly badly needed by its squadron at this time?

[pierre66]

Thanks Antoine (Leo2)... you do it with a best english than mine !!!

[Antoine]

You're welcome.

At least you did try, that's the thing.

Keep on trying, open your own topics or participate to others, it will do the trick sooner than you think.

[Chris Thomas]

On 16/09/2017 at 10:36 PM, pierre66 said:

Where i can found picture of coulored cockpit for cardoor and fourbladed Typfie! Here is diference of internal painting?

Hello Pierre. Your English is about on a par with my French, so its ok by me!

I have never seen colour photos of the Typhoon cockpit, except for photos of Hendon's MN235 and Duxford's displayed cockpit section - both of which are restorations and must be treated with caution as sources.  I have never found documentary evidence of the cockpit colours but, from various sources I have the opinion (not always shared by others) that the instrument panels were black, the seat and tubular structure were silver and initially the cockpit walls and inside of the doors were 'cockpit green'.  In spring 1943 the cockpit walls above the seat level, and the inside of the doors were painted black to reduce reflections when night flying. The tubes remained silver.  This scheme was kept when the sliding bubble canopy was introduced.

On 17/09/2017 at 11:37 AM, Antoine said:

Does OR 101 gives tips about the kind of damage (Which area?) suffered by the Tiffie?

Also, as the delay between arrival at 409 R&SU on 18 july, and departure on 29 is quite short, and depending on the FLAK damage, could we assume that MN877 was not given a full paint job, but just touched up, as it was certainly badly needed by its squadron at this time?

Antoine

A bit more good fortune.  The OR101 does not give details of damage - merely 'Category Ac' which meant repair was beyond the unit's capacity but could be undertaken by a local RAF repair unit. The squadron Operations Record Book  shows MN877 was flown on two attacks against gun positions on 18 July and does mention flak was encountered mostly 'light'.  Both trips were flown by Wt Off Tony 'Tich' Hallett, an old friend, and I have a copy of his log which says "flak in port gun bay. Kite cat Ac". TP-Y was in fact his usual aircraft and he did not fly it again until 29 July, which fits nicely with the OR101 date.

CT

[pierre66]

Huho... its more than fortune, ils like winning euromillion!

 

With, hour help, i have all what i want for my model... and now, at work!

 

Thanks for all !

 

Pierre

[Antoine]

Hi Chris, and thanks,

Certainly a direct hit with a 20mm round, which is enough to rip the gun bay panels, and maybe the downside of the bay.

Doesn't seems so bad at first, but the main spar could also have been damaged, and then a whole new wing is needed?

Hence the ten days at R&SU?

You've got options there, Pierre.

[pierre66]

Oh! OUI ! Antoine! I have all !

 

... and more: Repainted wing after work or changing wing... will have the same look on a 1/72 AIRFIX kit!!!

 

thanks for all

[pierre66]

Sorry Chriss i am still here.

A friend is making the JP496 of WingCo Davidson (R°D)... for the december 43 period.

 

Did you know if this plane have the yellow marking of inside 20mm (those yellow marking desapeard progressively at the end of 43, or not?)

 

Have you sometinga bout that

 

Thanks a lot!

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, pierre66 said:

for the december 43 period.

 

Did you know if this plane have the yellow marking of inside 20mm (those yellow marking desapeard progressively at the end of 43, or not?)

 

I'd suspect not, see first paragraph

 

full booklet here

http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Profiles/Camoflage-Markings/04-Hawker-Tornado-Typhoon

 

if you want to get Chris to notice, use @     and then type the name

eg @Chris Thomas

 

HTH

T

[Chris Thomas]

5 hours ago, pierre66 said:

A friend is making the JP496 of WingCo Davidson (R°D)... for the december 43 period.

 

Did you know if this plane have the yellow marking of inside 20mm (those yellow marking desapeard progressively at the end of 43, or not?

 

I wasn't too sure whether this referred to the yellow leading edge stripe - which sometimes extended between the the cannon - or the chord wise yellow wing bands that were introduced in September 1942.  So,although I think Troy has provided the correct answer I'll answer both.

 

The yellow wing bands, 12" wide, in line with the inner cannon were partly superceded by the black and white stripes under the wings, at the end of 1942, however they remained on the upper wing surfaces until February 1943. Then, following an incident when Fw190s with similar markings were encountered, they were deleted, but only in 11 Group. For some reason the order did not extend to 10 or 12 Groups were the bands were still seen on Typhoons until around July 1943. They were certainly not evident on JP496 at the end of 1943.  

 

Yellow leading edge stripes were required by Fighter command and were applied after delivery to units in that command.  I don't have the original instruction but it would seem to be open to misinterpretation as much variation is evident on Typhoons in 1942/43. An instruction was given to the manufacturer in mid 1943 to apply the leading edge band before delivery but it took several months before the correct style became standard i.e. Starting at the inner cannon and running all the way to the wing tip lights.  However a photo of JP496 R-D in late 1943 shows it still had stripes which started at the landing lights and extended to the wing tip lights.

CT

Edited October 7, 2017 by Chris Thomas
Typo

[pierre66]

Oh! troy... Lewes... i went there in hollidays a few years ago... 1971/72... Great days there!