Brandy Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 (edited) Aaaaagh! I give in, I'm going to have to do this! First a little background. The firm of Donnet-Lévêque was established in 1912 when French designer Denhaut and Swiss engineer Donnet got together. They built a 2 seat tandem flying boat based on earlier design of Denhaut's which had been built by Levasseur. This later machine was designated the Donnet-Lévêque flying boat and the company was formed to build Denhaut's designs. The original Donnet-Lévêque (the Type A) was a single-bay wing warper, and was powered by a 50hp Gnôme. The later B and C models had ailerons, and were fitted with 70hp and 80hp Gnômes respectively. The C also had a larger wing enabling it to carry 3 people. The Type A won the Belgian Coupe du Roi (King's Cup) for seaplanes in 1912 and was later produced under licence by F.B.A. (Franco-British Aviation) as the FBA Lévêque, (or FBA Type A) although from what I can find, the FBA types had a normal boat style prow, instead of the blunt nose of the Donnet-Lévêque. The FBA Type B and C were slightly larger 2-bay aircraft and had a side-by-side instead of tandem seating arrangement. Austro-Hungary purchased 4 Donnet-Lévêque aircraft in 1912 for evaluation: 2 Type As and 2 Type Cs. All entered service in January 1913. They were so impressed that they copied them: 3 were built in 1913 with Gnôme engines, enlarged fuselages and longer wingspan, 4 more in 1914. The kit will be built as one of the original 4 Austro-Hungarian aircraft, Number 10 (actually the decals supplied are for this aircraft). My reference (French Aircraft of the First World War by Davilla & Soltan) states that this aircraft was a Type A, but the one pic I have found of it clearly shows ailerons, so that's how it will be built. That reference also states that Number 10 was damaged in a crash on 6th December 1913, although it doesn't state whether it was repaired or not. This was such an important aircraft that I feel I have to include it in my collection. The design was of course developed further by FBA, and any cursory glance at Austro-Hungarian seaplanes from the period clearly show design similarities (particularly the curved tail) - and they were copied in turn by Macchi for their series of small seaplanes. So, what do I have to work with? Here's the pic I found online: and here's the kit: I don't have measurements for this specific aircraft, and those that I do have show the wings as far too long, so I'll see what "looks right". Fortunately the pic is taken from almost exactly front quarter so I should be able to get relative lengths of fuselage to wings from that The fuselage will need some major work. The rear is flat on top instead of triangular, and the top deck of the nose is wrong, but nothing that should cause too much trouble. Now to get the bits out of the sheet! Ian Edited September 15, 2017 by limeypilot 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted September 15, 2017 Author Share Posted September 15, 2017 (edited) This afternoon's progress....all the major parts removed from the sheet and cleaned up.... It doesn't look as though I'll have quite as much correcting to do as I'd first thought. There is work to be done on the nose, but filling the front with Miliput to make it thick enough to sand, and adding more miliput on top to enable me to flatten it out, should suffice. The big area is still the upper side of the rear fuselage.... Ian Edited September 15, 2017 by limeypilot 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggles.w Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 5 hours ago, limeypilot said: Aaaaagh! I give in, I'm going to have to do this! Great, well done, it won't hurt a bit! A very shapely subject Ian, I can defined see the lineage from this to the racing Macchi flying boats just as you say. I look forward to seeing it come together. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOCKNEY Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Congratulations Ian A fantastic choice, and another Vacform to boot this is turning into the most amazing GB, there are so many aircraft I had never heard of before, but as a flying boat fan I couldn't be more delighted. With you all the way. cheers Pat 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOCKNEY Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Hi Ian I hope you don't mind me asking but what are your plans for the struts ? The ones that come with the kit looks like someone drew them on the plastic rather than moulded them ! cheers Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted September 15, 2017 Author Share Posted September 15, 2017 37 minutes ago, JOCKNEY said: Hi Ian I hope you don't mind me asking but what are your plans for the struts ? The ones that come with the kit looks like someone drew them on the plastic rather than moulded them ! cheers Pat The marks on the plastic are just templates for use in getting the lengths. It comes with strut material, but I'll decide later whether I use that or, more likely, plastic or brass rod. Ian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheonix Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Great to see another very early flying boat, (which I had never heard of either!), and equally great to see a master modeller tackling a vacuform. I will be following tis with much interest. P 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTiger66 Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Hello Ian; this is a great choice. I quite like Libramodels kits; I have an old DH 5 and I can't persuade myself to part with it. I'm not sure, but I may have seen one of the aircraft you're making. It's a 'Schreck FBA' in a museum in Portugal. There are a few photos of it in my Flickr folder here; it looks like the same kind of aircraft. This one is made out of the original two supplied to Portugal. Sample photo: The rest: https://flickr.com/photos/144781950@N05/sets/72157685221081872 Looking forward to this build ! Best regards TonyT 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted September 16, 2017 Author Share Posted September 16, 2017 (edited) Thanks Tony! The Portuguese aircraft is the later FBA Type C (Louis Schreck bought the copyrights to the Donnet-Leveque designs and started the FBA company, based in London) - it has the two-bay wing, larger fuselage, and a forward gunner position. A later development of the aircraft. I've been driving myself nutty over the last few days trying to figure out the differences between the different types of Donnet- and FBA- Leveque aircraft, and comparing photos. I'm still not sure I have got it all right, but I think I'm half way there. There were an awful lot of variations even amongst the same type designations! (especially for the Donnet-Leveques!) The research is actually one of my favourite parts of a build. I learn far more from building a kit than I would by just taking a passing interest in it. Ian Edited September 16, 2017 by limeypilot 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTiger66 Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Doh! My apologies Ian; I should have noticed it was different from your photo in the introduction . Should I edit/delete the post or leave it case anyone wants to look at the 'C' photos? Somewhere I have at least one injection moulded Schreck FBA - 17, a later development but the family DNA is clearly there. Now that kit by 'Hit Kit' in 1/72, is a very tricky one (for me), but for yourself; an evenings fun ! The research is a really enjoyable part of it Ian, you're right it's a great way of learning. The history of Yugoslav aviation is starting to catch my interest too Have a great weekend Best regards TonyT 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Lovely stuff Ian. The original vacform sheet for that looked like nothing so much as the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic for 'flying boat'! Best of luck with this. Tony 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrlx Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Hi Ian, Welcome to the GB! Another vacform and an interesting type to add to the variety of this GB! Thanks for that and I wish you the best of luck Cheers Jaime 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted September 16, 2017 Author Share Posted September 16, 2017 (edited) Thanks for the welcome everyone! @TonyTiger66 - by all means leave the pics, at least it's an original boat! 14 hours ago, TheBaron said: Lovely stuff Ian. The original vacform sheet for that looked like nothing so much as the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic for 'flying boat'! Best of luck with this. Tony I think it's going to take quite a bit of "translating" too....... Today I decided to tackle the wings. My logic for starting there is that I will then have accurate references for cutting the top off the fuselage.... So...bearing in mind that the drawings I have don't match any of the quoted wingspans, but do match the fuselage length, I decided to stick with them as it does at least "look" right. First up then, adjusting the chord of the wings. Here we have them marked for cutting. You can see how much needs to be removed from the trailing edge, and that will of course mean more sanding to get back to the nice thin edge I already achieved..... That pic also shows the amount needing to be removed from the upper wing centre section...... Having done that, and the sanding (another nice fine trailing edge on both wings!), I cut the upper wing in half, removed one rib's worth, and stuck it back together. With that left to dry, I removed the centre section from the lower wing, and marked the two halves for length.... With the tips shortened and reshaped, I could now rejoin them and make sure the gap was correct (yes, I had made sure I marked the tips with the correct spacing in the middle!). I used .030x.040 strip for the spars, and cut slots into the wings to insert the strip so it had a better grip. [ The last job for today was to open up the rear centre cut-out on the top wing, mark the correct outlines for the ailerons, and then splodge Mr Dissolved Putty on the spar joints and kit strut location marks. That's all now drying, and since I have to work tomorrow it should have plenty of time! Now I just have to figure out how to tackle the fuselage. I'm toying with the idea of crash moulding a new upper cockpit section, we'll see.... Thanks for looking in! Ian Of course, if I'd thought about it, it would have been simpler to have removed the ailerons before cutting the wing up, then I wouldn't have had to alter them, just cut the new location out...... Edited September 16, 2017 by limeypilot 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 That's quite a chunk you've had to excise there Ian from those wings! Calm and purposeful surgery: love it. Tony 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheonix Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Good work Ian. Just shows that scratch building is often as easy as making one of these vacuform things! P 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrlx Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Good progress, Ian. Very precise work. Cheers Jaime 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggles.w Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Excellent, we're underway! Regardless of what the references say, those wings look all the better for those far more graceful wingtips. Nicely done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I love to watch a true masochist in action, I'll be popping back from time to time. Steve. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Ok. So there's another must-watch build on the forum now............. I have a feeling this little curiosity is going to be delightful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) On 9/16/2017 at 5:16 PM, TheBaron said: That's quite a chunk you've had to excise there Ian from those wings! Calm and purposeful surgery: love it. Tony Thanks Tony - excised, not exorcised? We'll see........ On 9/16/2017 at 7:17 PM, pheonix said: Good work Ian. Just shows that scratch building is often as easy as making one of these vacuform things! P You know as well as I do there's gong to be plenty of scratchbuilding involved with this one! On 9/16/2017 at 7:38 PM, jrlx said: Good progress, Ian. Very precise work. Cheers Jaime Thanks Jaime....early days yet.... 20 hours ago, greggles.w said: Excellent, we're underway! Regardless of what the references say, those wings look all the better for those far more graceful wingtips. Nicely done. I think so too, glad you agree! 19 hours ago, stevehnz said: I love to watch a true masochist in action, I'll be popping back from time to time. Steve. I even bought a bigger hammer for hitting myself on the head, just so I can enjoy it more...... 46 minutes ago, Fritag said: Ok. So there's another must-watch build on the forum now............. I have a feeling this little curiosity is going to be delightful. Thanks Steve, I certainly hope so! Back to the bench for a little more headbanging this afternoon...oh, and after seeing @CedB's trials and tribulations with his engines, I went and ordered a Smallstuff engine, one of these! I think it should look the part! Ian Edited September 18, 2017 by limeypilot 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 After getting the wings to a state more akin to what they should be, I started to examine the fuselage a little closer today. I decided it would be a good idea to get my reference points sorted out first so to that end I looked at the underside. The shape is pretty good, but the step is too far aft - it should be right under the leading edge of the wings. Easy enough to sort out! The step part itself is separate, so it was shortened at the front and thinned to give a flush mating surface. It was also a little too shallow, so I added a couple of pieces of .020" strip to the rear edge to push it down a little, then to ensure it was in the correct position, strips of .040" were added to the fuselage underside to bring the step position forward. That will do for now, it'll get properly tidied up when the halves are mated. Now I had a good underside shape to get all the rest of the detail in the correct place, so I measured it out and marked it in pencil so i could see what I needed to do. The dot on the upper rear fuselage is the point where it becomes triangular, so the flat surface aft of there needs to be removed and the sides brought together - they are also a little too tall, but I suspect not tall enough to be able to do it without reskinning the sides. The smaller slightly curved triangle in front of that is the rear of the cockpit decking where it slopes down to the tail. The top surface between the rear of that part and the triangular section tail is flat. The cockpits themselves are not as bad as I'd thought, being almost correct in depth, but just a little too curved from the side - the top should run flat. This is not too much of a problem since most of that area is open, so I can simply sand the edges down. The front part is a little more awkward but a piece of card glued inside the front upper hull section should give me enough plastic to sand that part flat and in line with the rear. The last part is the bow. You can see that it is very sharply defined at the front edges, indicating to me that part of it was flat. The kit is not.... Another fairly easy fix. I made a saw cut in from the front, then marked out the bits I needed to remove. Those corners were cut out with a scalpel, and a piece of .010" card inserted into the slot. Again, that will be properly tidied up and fine tuned once the fuselage is together. That's all drying now....So that just leaves the difficult bits....... Thanks for looking in! Ian 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheonix Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Very interesting to follow this Ian. I shall definitely be using this thread when I get around to scratch building one of these. Good idea about the engine too - those Small Stuff engines are really first class. P 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOCKNEY Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Hi Ian Lovely attention to detail, you are setting a very high standard of authenticity, for which I cannot commend you highly enough cheers Pat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrlx Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 I can only agree with what's said above: great care and attention to detail and authenticity! Very well done! Cheers Jaime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristol boy Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Great start, looking forward to seeing more. I acquired a Libra Bristol Scout recently so interested to see how good these vacs are, I take it you will not bother trying to use the supplied struts? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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