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Ammo MIG Filters - For WWII Aircraft???


BIG X

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Howdy Folks...

I have been looking at the use of filters on both monotone and camouflaged AFV's.  Does anyone use them on aircraft???  I would be interested to see some pictures of what can be achieved on WWII RAF and Luftwaffe paint schemes - can anyone post some pictures or point me in the right direction???

 

Thanks in advance - Steve

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I'm not quite as at home with the aircraft side of weathering, but you can use various kinds of filter, be that enamel, acrylic or oil. You can get selective to match the camo or use it to blend the colours, but I suspect that any technique usually needs to be a bit more subtle than we can get away with on vehicles. Talking generally, I like to airbrush Vallejo Model Washes when I want some very subtle filters. It's easy to do that per colour, per panel, all over, or in line with how the light falls, and it can be as not-there as needed depending on colour choice. I've also tried spraying them over salt for a subtle variation. They mix nicely and they're good value. I have a couple of aircraft in progress which could use some heavier weathering and they may well get some oil treatments. I need to experiment first.

Edited by Ade H
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1 hour ago, Ade H said:

I'm not quite as at home with the aircraft side of weathering, but you can use various kinds of filter, be that enamel, acrylic or oil. You can get selective to match the camo or use it to blend the colours, but I suspect that any technique usually needs to be a bit more subtle than we can get away with on vehicles. Talking generally, I like to airbrush Vallejo Model Washes when I want some very subtle filters. It's easy to do that per colour, per panel, all over, or in line with how the light falls, and it can be as not-there as needed depending on colour choice. I've also tried spraying them over salt for a subtle variation. They mix nicely and they're good value. I have a couple of aircraft in progress which could use some heavier weathering and they may well get some oil treatments. I need to experiment first.

Thanks for the input Ade.  I am definitely getting my hands on some Ammo MIG filters - for the AFV's - maybe tomorrow or on Monday at a pinch and I have a very busy week next week with work in Peterborough and Chelmsford - so might not a chance to have a play until next weekend - but play I will.  And if there is a possibility of adding an extra dimension to my aircraft work - well all the more fun.

 

Let's hope some others chip in with some useful info - whether it's a yes or no for wingy thingies :D 

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Steve, I found a good example of salt chip fading (as I mentioned) and oil dots on Matt McDougall's blog. https://doogsmodels.com/2014/12/29/weathering-tamiyas-132-f4u-1-corsair-pt-1/ In the meantime, I'll keep an eye out for some good pics and videos of using filters of various types (actually a very wide ranging definition). Such things will help me out, too.

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31 minutes ago, Ade H said:

Steve, I found a good example of salt chip fading (as I mentioned) and oil dots on Matt McDougall's blog. https://doogsmodels.com/2014/12/29/weathering-tamiyas-132-f4u-1-corsair-pt-1/ In the meantime, I'll keep an eye out for some good pics and videos of using filters of various types (actually a very wide ranging definition). Such things will help me out, too.

Thanks for the link - that salt chipping looks a bit 'extreme' for me right now - but what I  would hope to achieve is what you might call a 'post shading' effect like this...

 

ac90caa16286b07fdc2896c07f980a12.jpg 

 

I've tried preshading - with very poor results - but I think I might be able to do this with filters perhaps...

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I find post shading easier; mostly in terms of controlling opacity. I have used the mottle technique https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szgTh1-Y6zw a few times now, but it was tough for me to get even even close because I use Vallejo. They have such good opacity that they really need thinning before going over any type of shading. It's like "coat 1... coat 2... a little more needed... oh, it's covered". Selectively spraying filters as I described earlier, or using oil blending, does allow fairly easy control of local contrast and it can be, as I said, extremely subtle. Even oil blending can be extremely subtle if needed. Heck, it can disappear altogether if you work it too much.

 

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@PLC1966 A filter is a wide ranging term, as I said. It's any type of heavily translucent paint which in some way alters the tonality, colour or contrast anywhere from locally to right across the whole model. It may be brushed on or airbrushed. It almost certainly derives from the same word in a photography context.

Edited by Ade H
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4 minutes ago, PLC1966 said:

Never really understood what filters are as opposed to weathering, any clues to help me in a modelling sense ?

to my understanding it is actually incredibly thinned down paint with virtually no opacity - so when it goes over a colour it subtly changes it but imperceptibly.

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Usually after markings. If you find it tricky to decide the order of steps, it will help if you think about what each step represents and what it would (and wouldn't) alter in real life, and then arrange them accordingly. Most weathering techniques fit into, let's say, four groups (probably not complete, but its what I can think up off the cuff as I type): artistic effects; events which alter the paint; events which damage the paint, and events which deposit all kinds of dirt.

 

With filters, you're at least partly doing those artistic effects: adding or reducing contrast, adding tones, changing colours; all to go from toy-like and one-dimensional to something more alive and interesting to look at. The kind of thing which makes lay observers say "wow" and they have no idea how you achieved it.

 

But to some extent, you can also be representing some alteration of the paint, so what are you trying to show then? Fading? Discolouration? Did that happen to the markings as well, and in the same way? Sometimes, you can treat markings in the same way or similarly; sometimes, maybe you would need to treat them differently. There's no one answer. But what looks really odd to me is an intricate multi-tonal paint finish with lots of weathering... but clean, bright markings.

 

These are the kinds of things which make it essential for me to make lots of notes as I go through every build so that I have some hope of developing a coherent plan for it and doing things a bit better each time!

Edited by Ade H
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21 minutes ago, PLC1966 said:

So does it get applied before decals, after weathering ?  Is it a really thinned paint, and if painting over say a Vietnam USAF jet, what would be the colour that is thinned down  ?

My understanding where decals are concerned are - markings would be affected by weathering as much as paintwork - so - decals on first and then filter and finally weather.

 

But I could be talking out of the top of my hat - that's why I started the thread - I want words of wisdom from those with a higher skill set than mine.

 

Q - What colour is the Vietnam jet - silver or camo...

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2 minutes ago, Ade H said:

Usually after markings. If you find it tricky to decide the order of steps, it will help if you think about what each step represents and what it would (and wouldn't) alter in real life, and then arrange them accordingly. Every weathering technique fits into, let's say, four groups (probably not complete, but its what I can think up off the cuff as I type): artistic effects; events which alter the paint; events which damage the paint, and events which deposit all kinds of dirt.

 

With filters, you're at least partly doing those artistic effects: adding or reducing contrast, adding tones, changing colours; all to go from toy-like and one-dimensional to something more alive and interesting to look at. The kind of thing which makes lay observers say "wow" and they have no idea how you achieved it.

 

But to some extent, you can also be representing some alteration of the paint, so what are you trying to show then? Fading? Discolouration? Did that happen to the markings as well, and in the same way? Sometimes, you can treat markings in the same way or similarly; sometimes, maybe you would need to treat them differently. There's no one answer. But what looks really odd to me is an intricate multi-tonal paint finish with lots of weathering... but clean, bright markings.

 

These are the kinds of things which make it essential for me to make lots of notes as I go through every build so that I have some hope of developing a coherent plan for it and doing things a bit better each time!

Thanks for that much better answer than mine :clap2:

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In a nutshell a filter is a thin translucent layer of paint to alter the base colour. Is can be pre or post decals depending on the effect you want to achieve. 

 

For example, on a plane with green camouflage if I were to add a lighter green filter in places to give the green camo shade some variation to add interest in places I would add it pre decals to avoid giving the decals a greenish tinge. I rarely put a filter over a whole area otherwise you may havewell just painted that part in the resultant colour to begin with. This type of colour changing filter is best applied on alternating panels etc to show a difference.  

 

If however I wanted to 'fade' the overall green more than give it a variation, I would use grey and white filters. These could be done post decals because the grey and white filters would fade/lighten the markings too (as they would have been exposed to the sun for the same amount of time) rather than change their colour with a tinge if you used a filter that was a lighter colour of the base under the decals. 

 

The former is where the market for  all these multiple different complimentary shades of filter comes in to alter your base paint. 

 

The later can be done on all colours with a tube of grey and white oil paint (insert preferred brand here) or oilbrusher things

 

Hope that helps and makes sense.

 

Out in town on the ale at the minute... 

Edited by Tony Oliver
Spelling due to Ale 🍻🍻
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7 minutes ago, Tony Oliver said:

In a nutshell a filter is a thin translucent layer of paint to alter the base colour. Is can be pre or post decals depending on the effect you want to achieve. 

 

For example, on a plane with green camouflage if I were to add a lighter green filter in places to give the green camo shade some variation to add interest in places I would add it pre decals to avoid giving the decals a greenish tinge. I rarely put a filter over a whole area otherwise you may havewell just painted that part in the resultant colour to begin with. This type of colour changing filter is best applied on alternating panels etc to show a difference.  

 

If however I wanted to 'fade' the overall green more than give it a variation, I would use grey and white filters. These could be done post decals because the grey and white filters would fade/lighten the markings too (as they would have been exposed to the sun for the same amount of time) rather than chamge their colour with a tinge if you used a filter thay was a lighter colour of the base under the decals. 

 

Hope that helps and makes sense.

 

Out in town on the ale at the minute... 

Cheers Tony - Perfect answer - have a beer on me ;)

 

One last question though - do you use ammo by mig or another brand - I trust your experience on these matters...

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@BIG X 

 

you dont have to be loyal to one brand. A filter is just a thinner wash.

I use whatever I need to achieve the effect/shade I am after. 

I have several of both ak interactive & ammo filters and their washes in the drawer along with the mig oil brushers and several shades of abt 502 tube oil paints. 

 

You can use a bottled wash as a filter if you dilute some of it down more with thinners in a shot glass. 

 

Same principle with tube oil paints - a colour thinned makes a wash and then the same shade super thinned makes a filter 👍🏿

Edited by Tony Oliver
Poor spelling due to ale 🍻 Don't drink and post!
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  • 3 weeks later...
On ‎15‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 20:43, PLC1966 said:

Thank you Tony and Ade for that. Really great info.

 

Good thread Big X

Well I 'splashed out' and bought all 12 MIG AMMO filters - to have a play with today - so watch this space soon...

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  • 1 year later...

Just to bring this thread - 'back from the dead'...

 

Applying MIG Filters - onto acrylic paint...

 

Gloss first of straight onto the paint - advice required please.

 

Thanks in advance - Steve

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/26/2019 at 4:11 AM, BIG X said:

Gloss first of straight onto the paint - advice required please.

 

Thanks in advance - Steve

I guess we all have our methods. I would use a clear cote before adding washes or filters over acrylic paint. For washes a gloss finish works best, but for filters a satin or flat finish works better.

 

I use oil paints (Abteilung 502) direct from the tube as filters when applying it by brush, but it needs just a tiny amount. At the end, it all depends what effect you are after - experiment is the key.

 

Cheers, Peter

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