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FinnAndersen

Brengun 1/72 A36 Apache USAF (Brengun Model Accessories BRP72025)

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New kit; I've heard it shares some design similarity to the KP Mustang highbacks, so there may have been some shared design work.

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There were some pictures posted here (about halfway down the page) from Brengun's Nuremberg display including some sprues. The really obvious clanger is yet again the main gear bay is incorrectly done.

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Thank you Procopius and Chuck1945. Seems a must-have. Not too worried about the main gear bay, if the rest looks like a A-36.

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Problem is that it doesn't look too much like an A-36.  It looks like a P-51B with an Allison engine.  This mistake has been made before - the Merlin Mustangs were deeper in the fuselage, with more distance between the top of the wing and the canopy.

 

To be fair, I haven't seen the actual kit.  However this is obvious from the photos of the runners, and I'm not the only one to comment on it.  Presumably you could still add the A-36 wing to another kit's fuselage, presumably the Academy, but you will have to be careful about other details such as the radiator - the Allison Mustangs did vary rather a lot in such details.

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Canopy cutout in the fuselage looks very similar to the one on Italeri Allison Mustang kit, which has one piece cockpit transparency. Is it the same with the Brengun kit? Cheers

Jure

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1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

Problem is that it doesn't look too much like an A-36.  It looks like a P-51B with an Allison engine.  This mistake has been made before - the Merlin Mustangs were deeper in the fuselage, with more distance between the top of the wing and the canopy.

 

To be fair, I haven't seen the actual kit.  However this is obvious from the photos of the runners, and I'm not the only one to comment on it.  Presumably you could still add the A-36 wing to another kit's fuselage, presumably the Academy, but you will have to be careful about other details such as the radiator - the Allison Mustangs did vary rather a lot in such details.

Interesting. Looking more closely at the runner pictures, I could see your concern. I rather hope that someone who buys the kit will tell us if the kit has this fault or not.

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Sounds like the answer for an A-36 remains finding the MPM kit. Note there's most of an A-36 in the Mk1 kit as well (it cross-kits the Mk1A and A-36 kits to make a Mk1)

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On 15 September 2017 at 1:16 AM, Adam Maas said:

Sounds like the answer for an A-36 remains finding the MPM kit. Note there's most of an A-36 in the Mk1 kit as well (it cross-kits the Mk1A and A-36 kits to make a Mk1)

 

The Special Hobby 'Red Stars' boxing of the MPM kit is available, although appropriate decals will need to be sourced.

 

 

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17 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Does the MPM kit have a better fuselage?

The MPM, like the academy, is a proper Allison fuselage, not a Merlin fuselage with an Allison nose

 

its faults are primarily the wheel wells and short-run construction 

Edited by Adam Maas

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Enough not to need another bad one.  Which would be true even if the answer was nil.

Edited by Graham Boak

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On 14/9/2017 at 10:20 AM, Graham Boak said:

Problem is that it doesn't look too much like an A-36.  It looks like a P-51B with an Allison engine.  This mistake has been made before - the Merlin Mustangs were deeper in the fuselage, with more distance between the top of the wing and the canopy.

 

To be fair, I haven't seen the actual kit.  However this is obvious from the photos of the runners, and I'm not the only one to comment on it.  Presumably you could still add the A-36 wing to another kit's fuselage, presumably the Academy, but you will have to be careful about other details such as the radiator - the Allison Mustangs did vary rather a lot in such details.

Was curious enough to buy the Brengun kit, and, as expected, your fears are vindicated: The fuselage is too deep.

 

Otherwise it looks like a cool kit. My old Condor A-36 kits goes out now. Pity.

 

/Finn

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The Brengun kit also has the problem of the D-style leading edge wing roots. Thanks to another thread on this forum I learned the only accurate early Mustang wing is on the Academy kit.

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14 minutes ago, k5054nz said:

The Brengun kit also has the problem of the D-style leading edge wing roots. Thanks to another thread on this forum I learned the only accurate early Mustang wing is on the Academy kit.

I don't have the Brengun kit but looking at sprue shots here it does not appear to have a 'D' type kink. There were a couple of other related threads here, but a lot of the replies got trampled by others with opinions tossed around like popcorn. Not claiming any are wrong, but a grain (or two) of salt is needed. The consensus I saw was that of existing kits (and I dont think Bregun entered into the discussions) Academy's P-51A had the best early Mustang wing

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1 hour ago, k5054nz said:

The Brengun kit also has the problem of the D-style leading edge wing roots. Thanks to another thread on this forum I learned the only accurate early Mustang wing is on the Academy kit.

The KP P-51B/C doesn't have the D style wing root kinks either.

 

thanks

Mike

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8 hours ago, k5054nz said:

The Brengun kit also has the problem of the D-style leading edge wing roots. Thanks to another thread on this forum I learned the only accurate early Mustang wing is on the Academy kit.

No, you are mistaken there. Apart from the deep fuselage, its a little gem of a kit, very well moulded.

 

/Finn

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Could the Brengun wing mate with the Special Hobby fuselage, I wonder?

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Chuck's changing philosophy. 50 some years ago when I was stationed just outside London, I had a chance to visit Mike Silk and Modeltoys. I was bemoaning the lack of a reasonable P-51D and how much effort would be involved attempting to correct the Revel kit of the time. Mike suggested "be patient, a better one will come someday". Jump forwards many years and a friend of mine commented something like "once I have seen a kit error, it is hard to un-see and just say'close enough'". That was true me up through at least my 65th year. However as my 70th came and went, the time horizon acceptable for Mike's 'someday' has become recognizably shorter.  I think I will force myself to un-see the fuselage depth error in the Bregun kit and just build one since I am not sure I will still be around when that correct one finally does arrive. ^_^

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Can it be too difficult to fit the  Brengun wing to a more acceptable fuselage? After all, why else do plasticard and filler exist?  Surely this is going to be better than spending time on something you know is wrong and correctable?

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1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

Can it be too difficult to fit the  Brengun wing to a more acceptable fuselage? After all, why else do plasticard and filler exist?  Surely this is going to be better than spending time on something you know is wrong and correctable?

 

My hope, once my A-36 arrives from Brengun/Hauler's e-shop, is to check the possibility of mating the A-36 wing to the Academy P-51 fuselage, plus whatever intake and airscoop modifications are appropriate to an A-36. I'm guessing that it really won't require much of that plasticard and filler, with a bit of luck. I just can't see it being easy to section and reassemble the Brengun fuselage in such a way as to correct its "P-51B-ness".

 

John

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, John Thompson said:

 

My hope, once my A-36 arrives from Brengun/Hauler's e-shop, is to check the possibility of mating the A-36 wing to the Academy P-51 fuselage, plus whatever intake and airscoop modifications are appropriate to an A-36. I'm guessing that it really won't require much of that plasticard and filler, with a bit of luck. I just can't see it being easy to section and reassemble the Brengun fuselage in such a way as to correct its "P-51B-ness".

 

John

Having both the Brengun and the Academy kits, I yesterday toyed around with this. The engineering of the kits are quite different and I'm not sure if it can be done in a neat way. The Academy wing has a curious profile that does not match the Brengun wing.

 

An alternative, as you suggest, will be to cut the wing fillet out of the Brengun fuselage and move the wing up. That way you are automatically helped to produce the elusive downward kink where the leading edge of the wing meets the fuselage.

 

Either way, it will be a massive effort and will need well developed modelling skills to pull off.

 

/Finn  

Edited by FinnAndersen

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Posted (edited)

A quick thought on the Brengun kit. I haven't seen it in the flesh, but if the fuselage is based on fhe KP B one (which in turn is based on the Revell), it may have inherited a couple of its flaws e.g. the cockpit being located too far back, and the fin/rudder being canted forward off the vertical. If the Brengun wing is wrong as contributors suggest, it may be because they started from the Revell interpretation of the fuselage/wing root join (which is wrong) rather than the KP one (which is correct). If memory serves me correctly, the Academy B fin/rudder is canted backward off the vertical, but I don't know if that is replicated on the Allison kit as I haven't seen one of those in my life. So far then, my conclusion for an accurate Allison is to use the Academy fuselage with fin corrected if necessary, plus the KP wing rescribed as necessary. Reshaping the Brengun to get the fuselage shallower, the wing join right, the cockpit located correctly and the fin angled correctly, seems like a lot of work.

 

Justin

Edited by Bedders

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