Airfix Me262 - a look in the box

[k5054nz]

I don't need or want a 262 but that is a very nice-looking kit! Thanks for sharing these pics.

[PLC1966]

On 12/09/2017 at 8:02 PM, John said:

They still had swastikas in 1977:

 

 

John

Someone on here did a 70's JU-88 on here recently and that did not have swastikas.

[PLC1966]

On 12/09/2017 at 5:34 PM, KITCAT said:

Now call me suspicious but I would love Airfix to state the source for the blue and white check marking as I am sure at best that this was interpreted from a black and white photo.  Just about everyone else has taken it for green.

 

 

Strangely I was reading on another site about this yesterday.  Someone had questioned why Airfix were doing an Aircraft with Blue and White Squares as opposed to Green and White as seen on a recently released aftermarket market decal set.  A representative of the said decal manufacturer then came on line and stated new research had proven that Blue and white (should that be Bleu/Weiss) were correct but it was to late for the decal manufacturer themselves to change.  

 

Indeed if you google ME262 Decals you will find at least two decal manufacturers with Blue and White squares.

[tango98]

That these particular bands were blue/white as opposed to green/white has been known now for some eight or nine years.

 

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Yes the green and white checks were a rare alternate for JG27's solid green band. Ive found that a few times in my research. KG 54's bands were Blue/White checks. 

[qn30jEkPz7]

As an aside (and maybe trying to goad a whatif out of someone) - if this was the best jet airframe of the time hamstrung by its engines why didn't any manufacturer re-engine it postwar instead of making Airacomets and Meteors? I can see why the Horten flying wing, despite its promise, would have been too difficult to adapt but wouldn't podded engines of the 262 have been relatively straightforward to stick a couple of Whittles on?

 

 

Edited September 14, 2017 by LostCosmonauts
Typo correction

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Well in theory it would have made sense. But the different allies had there own jet programs & the idea of re-engining a former enemy aircraft was distasteful. They chose to take the captured data and modify there own projects. The Germans had no air force until it was reformed in the 1950's and by then better types were in existence. 

     All that being said the Czech air force operated the type as the S-92 until 1951. I believe also as a ground engineering test subject until 1957.  And the Soviets used the captured 262's for research for a few years. Though not sure if the soviets flew them ? Someone else might know that.

[Nigel Bunker]

13 hours ago, LostCosmonauts said:

why didn't any manufacturer re-engine it postwar instead of making Airacomets and Meteors?

NIMBY obviously

[Chuck1945]

16 hours ago, LostCosmonauts said:

As an aside (and maybe trying to goad a whatif out of someone) - if this was the best jet airframe of the time hamstrung by its engines why didn't any manufacturer re-engine it postwar instead of making Airacomets and Meteors? I can see why the Horten flying wing, despite its promise, would have been too difficult to adapt but wouldn't podded engines of the 262 have been relatively straightforward to stick a couple of Whittles on?

 

 

Part of it may have been 'not invented here', but in the US at least the P-80 was well along with a pre-production example making to Europe by war's end and Republic's P-84 was also in development. The early British jet engines were centrifugal flow resulting in a greater diameter than the podded axial flow Jumos on the Me 262 and not making them particularly suited to be adapted to a 262 airframe even if the British were so inclined. As already mentioned, features of the 262 such as wing sweep back as well as other data from German research was incorporated into later designs, resulting, for instance in North American Aviation cancelling their straight wing fighter design in favor of a swept wing design that became the F-86

[AWFK10]

19 hours ago, PLC1966 said:

Someone on here did a 70's JU-88 on here recently and that did not have swastikas.

When I started modelling around 1970, Airfix decal sheets didn't include swastikas. Nor did Revell's; they tried to get round it on their Fw190 by including an extra pair of black crosses but perhaps they (rightly) decided this was a bit silly, as their Me262 had nothing and the box art featured a pilot carefully posed in mid-sprint in front of the aircraft's tail. Some time in the second half of the 1970s, as the Bf109 box art shows, Airfix did start providing swastikas in their new release Luftwaffe kits but it didn't last. Maybe they vanished again at the same time Airfix sanitised their box art - before and after. 

[Black Knight]

It was a mixed affair with Airfix and swastikas in the 1970s; I remember having to buy Almark decals sheets of swastikas in the early '70s but their 109E of '77 and the Me163 both had swastika decals as did the 1/24 109 of 1971 and the Ju87 of '78. The Do17E had but the Ju88 didn't etcetera

[Black Knight]

17 hours ago, LostCosmonauts said:

As an aside (and maybe trying to goad a whatif out of someone) - if this was the best jet airframe of the time hamstrung by its engines why didn't any manufacturer re-engine it postwar instead of making Airacomets and Meteors? I can see why the Horten flying wing, despite its promise, would have been too difficult to adapt but wouldn't podded engines of the 262 have been relatively straightforward to stick a couple of Whittles on?

You might be interested in that the new build 262s use a new generation of a US engine which traces its ancestry to the Jumo [afair]

After flight testing and approval the CAA has limited the new 262 to a maximum of 580knots.

During testing it was found it could achieve a high sub-mach number, approx 730/750mph

[Adam Maas]

On 9/13/2017 at 4:19 PM, LostCosmonauts said:

As an aside (and maybe trying to goad a whatif out of someone) - if this was the best jet airframe of the time hamstrung by its engines why didn't any manufacturer re-engine it postwar instead of making Airacomets and Meteors? I can see why the Horten flying wing, despite its promise, would have been too difficult to adapt but wouldn't podded engines of the 262 have been relatively straightforward to stick a couple of Whittles on?

 

 

The Jumo's were axial flow turbojets, while the allied engines were mostly centrifugal flow. You can readily convert an aircraft from centrifugal to axial, but not vice versa, due to the size requirements, centrifugal flow engines are much larger in diameter . Simply put, nobody had a better engine than the Jumo that would fit the 262's engine pods until well after the 262 was obsolete.

Later everyone switched to the superior axial flow design, once the (many) teething issues were sorted out. The centrifugal engines matured earlier, but also hit their limits much earlier.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Adam Maas

[Aeronut]

 

No allied axial flow engine comparable to the Jumo? Apart from Metropolitan Vickers Beryl (which had more thrust).

[PhantomBigStu]

Not quite true, had the Americans put faith in the jet earlier the lockheed J37 would have been comparable by the wars end 

[Work In Progress]

2 hours ago, Aeronut said:

 

No allied axial flow engine comparable to the Jumo? Apart from Metropolitan Vickers Beryl (which had more thrust).

And was, at the time, too unreliable for use.

Post-war a lot of Beryl experience and learning went into the Sapphire, but by that time airframes vastly superior to the 262 were available.

[LotusArenco]

Hush you lot!

 

You’re piddling all over my 004 powered Luftwaffe ’46 fantasies.

 

Mart

[Rob G]

re the 262 as an airframe for development - I recall reading somewhere, many years ago (to my great disappointment) that it was an aerodynamic mess - nowhere near as good as it looked, and pretty well unfixable. I cannot now recall who wrote that, or where, but it must have been in a book (long before the internets was a thing), so it must therefore have been true.

[T-21]

Bill Gunston ? Possibly. A good author.

[MiG-Mech]

About the swastikas:
Airfix wanna sell also kits to Germany and in Germany swastikas are forbidden (if not using in historic documentation or exhibition/museum).
Producing two different boxes are not economic.
Same as Eduard put them in the corner on the decal sheet that will cut off for selling in Germany.

Edited September 15, 2017 by MiG-Mech

[Paul Alan Bardell]

 

 

Thanks for posting the sprue photos -  I will be getting one or two of these as soon as i see them.

 

Paul

 

 

[Dave Batt]

On 14/09/2017 at 12:19 AM, LostCosmonauts said:

As an aside (and maybe trying to goad a whatif out of someone) - if this was the best jet airframe of the time hamstrung by its engines why didn't any manufacturer re-engine it postwar instead of making Airacomets and Meteors?

 

Could that have then resu;ted in the 262 reverting to its original straight-wing layout?  As i understand it the swept outer panels were only introduced to cope with the rearward C.G. shift caused by the original design engines not becoming available.

[stevej60]

Many thank's forposting John,one for the future me think's!

[Julien]

12 hours ago, MiG-Mech said:

About the swastikas:
Airfix wanna sell also kits to Germany and in Germany swastikas are forbidden (if not using in historic documentation or exhibition/museum).
Producing two different boxes are not economic.
Same as Eduard put them in the corner on the decal sheet that will cut off for selling in Germany.

Much better to go the Eduard route I would have thought, most manufactures seem to do that these days? or even print them as a two part decal which seems to be becoming a much better option these days.

 

As for using the 262 and re-enging it. Waht was in production was already there, but there is no doubt that German swept wing technology was used in follow on designs, here in the US and USSR.

[TonyTiger66]

Thanks from me too John. I wanted to see what it looked like before I committed to one or a few. I already  have Matchbox, Heller, Hasegawa.

 

It looks like they've thought this through very well. The separate fuselage runner demonstrates good  forward planning; hopefully more variants will be available soon.

 

I'll order one now; it looks like it should  be an enjoyable build.

 

Best regards

TonyT