Supermarine's best? [Now with added Seafire 47... & Seafang!]

[Darby]

Seeing as I'm at a certain Air Station gives me the opportunity, albeit infrequent of espying some 109 years of Naval Aviation 'stuff' and lo and behold Seafire words hove into view. From what was gleaned I managed to note the following. Seafire 46(LA546/900/LM) was Casper John's personal steed and was in EDSG/SKY, as opposed to EDSG/DSG/SKY and was cleaned to within 'Skipper's Rounds' standards with an excusable bit exhaust muck with negat weapons dangling off of it. It had the standard 'fighter' windscreen/canopy and not the '47 variety. Only 24 in number of the '46 built so choices of other airframes are very limited.

 

By all accounts LA546 is under the ownership of a Mr PR Arnold. This I have been reliably informed of and have a very good contact regarding Seafire stuff 'behind the wire' so to speak. If you need a 'heads up' on owt give me a shout.

Good looking build by the way.

 

Now where are those Sea Hurricane writings..?

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

A definite answer about the colour of the cockpit would be good.  I have seen apparently authoritative, definite 100% statements that by this stage the entire cockpit was black.... and equally authoritative etc. assertion that it was interior green lower down and black at the top, like the Museum's Mk.XVII.

 

All 46s had the non-curvy windscreen, I think.  I'm almost certainly not doing the Caspar John Lossie steed, but a bog standard Culham cab of 1832 NAS - my kit is the original boxing (it was only the later re-issue that had the LM transfers), and though the transfers are pretty old & yellow, I have some Montex masks for the same scheme.

 

 

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Sideshow - NOT PART OF THIS BUILD - but specially for @71chally

 

Our discussion re kit-bashing a Mk.45 made me dig out the PR.XIX kit from my stash and see whether the fuselage was anywhere near a match for the Mk.46 wings.

 

I reckon it could be done...

 

A bit of work to do at the wing roots (though frankly I have seen some kits where the fit isn't much better when all the parts are supposed to match!), and also to fill that gap underneath - but that's why they call it modelling rather than assembling.  No deal-breakers, though.  You even have a 5-bladed airscrew already provided by that nice Mr Airfix in the 46/47 kit, because of its 21/22 cousins.

 

Anyway as I say, not for this build.  But as a future idea...?

 

Laters

 

Crisp

[71chally]

Thanks for making the effort there Crisp.  Just a quickie, I take it you would use the 46/47 kit rudder rather than the 19s' for this conversion?

 

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

No, I'd use something made up from the 19's & 17's.  The 46/47 had the Spiteful/Seafang back end, which was what solved the 45's directional instability issues - essentially, the 45 didn't have a fin / rudder that was big enough. 

 

46/47 (front) compared with 17 (back):

 

Even clearer when seen from head on (46/7 on the right, obviously):

 

And, just for giggles, here we have 46/7 (front), 19 (middle), 17 (rear):

 

The tail would need some more detailed comparison with drawings than I have done (yet!).  But I still think it is a feasible route to a 45.

 

Anyway… the next transmission you hear will be about a model Mk. 46 build; honest!

 

[71chally]

Thanks again Crisp, interesting comparison of the fin / rudder changes and sizes.

Without drawings and going from photos, the 17 rudder does look the nearest by far.

 

Much appreciated as I know how much these things can get in the way of a model build.

On with the 46!

 

 

Edited September 16, 2017 by 71chally

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

@71chally, final post on this topic; it looks as though we rte on the right lines:

 

http://modelingmadness.com/review/korean/gb/reyseafire45.htm

Edited September 16, 2017 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[Martian]

Good choice with the Culham scheme (no self interest there then). If you need any info on the 1820 Squadron aircraft, let, me know as I have made a special study of the base and its' aircraft.

 

Martian

[corsaircorp]

Yoohoo ! Hava shot of lamb's

Seafire ?? I'm in if you don't mind !

I started mine month ago but adding the complete interior set is difficult enough

There's a Spitfire 24 in the same box, same punisment but with a griffon added !

These 2 will not be finished this year for sure.

Good choice Crisp ! Really enjoy it !

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

[71chally]

20 minutes ago, Martian Hale said:

Good choice with the Culham scheme (no self interest there then). If you need any info on the 1820 Squadron aircraft, let, me know as I have made a special study of the base and its' aircraft.

 

Martian

I hope you are not using it to form a new moon, and it's transport, for your planet!

Seriously, that sounds good. 

Do you know if all Culham post-war Seafires used yellow codes? saw an intriguing (and eminently buildable) XVII scheme in a book today.

 

Thanks again for the info, Crisp.

Edited September 16, 2017 by 71chally

[Martian]

2 minutes ago, 71chally said:

Do you know if all Culham post-war Seafires used yellow codes? saw an intriguing (and eminently buildable) XVII scheme in a book today.

All the pictures I have seen of Culham Seafires show them to have yellow codes.

 

Martian

[corsaircorp]

Hello Crisp

When you're talking about original box, do you mean this one ?

 

I bought it in the '90s

Here's the whole Korean madness

When talking about a flaw in the canopy... What do you mean ???

Frightened Corsaircorp

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

@corsaircorp, yes, that's the box; 20 years old, roughly - but still an excellent kit.

 

The main issue with the canopy (apparently) is if you pose it open; unlike later models (like the Airfix Seafire XVII) where they have a separate part depending on whether open or shut, the FR46/47 kit only has one.  It's therefore too narrow to fit low enough down over the fuselage, so it "sits" too high.  

 

I've seen claims that the slope of the windscreen-to-canopy joint is wrong, but that's more subtle and less of a problem.

 

if you close the canopy, no problem- or there are vacform replacements available (but FR47 only; not 46)

[corsaircorp]

7 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

@corsaircorp, yes, that's the box; 20 years old, roughly - but still an excellent kit.

 

The main issue with the canopy (apparently) is if you pose it open; unlike later models (like the Airfix Seafire XVII) where they have a separate part depending on whether open or shut, the FR46/47 kit only has one.  It's therefore too narrow to fit low enough down over the fuselage, so it "sits" too high.  

 

I've seen claims that the slope of the windscreen-to-canopy joint is wrong, but that's more subtle and less of a problem.

 

if you close the canopy, no problem- or there are vacform replacements available (but FR47 only; not 46)

Hello Crisp,

Thank you very much !

I will let it open as usual with me. I will work on that and I have the Falcon box with all the Spitfire's vac formed canopy.

Must write it on the instruction sheet since I'm in a gold fish mode these days !

I suppose that the Fr 47 tha is still in the Airfix catalogue is still the same mould..;

Nice job on your, will follow it too.

Sincerely.

CC 

[Martian]

1 hour ago, corsaircorp said:

I suppose that the Fr 47 tha is still in the Airfix catalogue is still the same mould..;

 

Same plastic, just different decals.

 

Martian

[corsaircorp]

21 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Sideshow - NOT PART OF THIS BUILD - but specially for @71chally

 

Our discussion re kit-bashing a Mk.45 made me dig out the PR.XIX kit from my stash and see whether the fuselage was anywhere near a match for the Mk.46 wings.

 

I reckon it could be done...

 

A bit of work to do at the wing roots (though frankly I have seen some kits where the fit isn't much better when all the parts are supposed to match!), and also to fill that gap underneath - but that's why they call it modelling rather than assembling.  No deal-breakers, though.  You even have a 5-bladed airscrew already provided by that nice Mr Airfix in the 46/47 kit, because of its 21/22 cousins.

 

Anyway as I say, not for this build.  But as a future idea...?

 

Laters

 

Crisp

AÎ caramba !!

So that's a nice way to add a 45 to my collection !!

Indeed !

Will smuggle 2 Seafire 46/47 and another PR XIX

Have a good modelling time !

Sincerely.

CC

[HOUSTON]

.....  just checking in...

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Some work over the weekend - the cockpit is now pretty close to being done.  I have received categorical assurance from someone who ought to know that the 45, 46 & 47 all had black cockpits, so black it is.  That means a reversion to age-old techniques such a dry brushing to make at least something visible.  Also keep in mind that the canopy is going to be shut on this one.

 

Collected cockpit parts:

 

Seat still unfinished, and the frame that sits behind it (missing in this pic) also still needs work.  All you Spitfire purists out there, I'm aware that much of this is pure fantasy - I've simply added a few dabs of colour / "switches" etc to make it look busier.  You're really not going to see much once this is all buttoned up, anyway:

 

More soon

 

Crisp

[Brandy]

I saw Culham and immediately thought "Skink"....sorry.....not a good speeller

 

Ian

[hendie]

certainly looks spitfire-ish enough for me

[Rob G]

Crisp, you've got a rivet out of place by about half a thou.

 

Looks durn fine to me mate, the purists can take a long walk off a short pier.

[perdu]

6 minutes ago, Rob G said:

Crisp, you've got a rivet out of place by about half a thou.

 

Looks durn fine to me mate, the purists can take a long walk off a short pier.

I just looked in the AP

 

The rivet's fine it was the drawing that was wrong

 

[giemme]

The cockpit looks the part to me, totally  

 

Ciao

[Fritag]

12 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

All you Spitfire purists out there, I'm aware that much of this is pure fantasy - I've simply added a few dabs of colour / "switches" etc to make it look busier.  You're really not going to see much once this is all buttoned up, anyway:

 

Mojo restoring Build Crisp.  Seems to me you've got a pass to indulge in as much fantasy building/painting as you jolly well like.

 

I'm sort of persuaded (ahem - Sea King  et al.) that you can do definitive levels of accuracy when you've a mind to 

 

To my eye's she's looking good - and equally importantly progressing at entirely satisfactory and enjoyable mojo-restoring rate.......

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

As I have already said, I have been raiding the spares box to add a little finesse to the cockpit of the Mk.46, without going nuts.  This is an example of the resultant Crispo-bodging: basic frame (behind seat / rear of cockpit) is original Airfix; the framework on which the seat back is fixed - darker grey plastic - is from the spares box (I think Eduard Spitfire); the piece of PE is also spares box (and definitely Eduard Spitfire); and the headrest, catapulting pilots for the use of, is Airfix original again.

 

Here;s how it looks under a coat of Tamiya rattle can TS-63 NATO Black:

 

Now closer than ever to gluing the whole cockpit together, but it is a delicate business mixing kits.  The frames at either end of the cockpit are Airfix, so fit nicely, and I have measured very carefully indeed so it all fits fine.  But after a lot of experimentation I decided that trying to glue it - especially the harnesses - in place when attached to the cockpit walls would be pretty hard...  so here we have a few views of the seat, armour (I assume that's what the plate behind the seat is), control runs, rudders and stick (I nearly said "cyclic" then!) all in one piece.  The slightly alarming insect-like feeler things waving in the air are the two shoulder straps; they had to be threaded down the back of the seat and over the bar above the seat back (which was one of the things I did NOT want to try with fuselage sides in the way!), so for now are in mid-air while all the glue firmly dries.

 

So; from above:

 

From the side:

 

From ahead (as though you are looking through the instrument panel):

 

...and finally from above and to one side:

 

Tomorrow this should be united with the cockpit walls and the IP glued in place... and I should be able to button up the fuselage.

 

More soon

 

Crisp

Edited September 19, 2017 by Ex-FAAWAFU