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Supermarine's best? [Now with added Seafire 47... & Seafang!]


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This is rolling along very handily Crisp. As per usual in your builds, the combination of knowledge and skill on display leaves me with nothing to add save the odd superlative. 

Today's one is: 'exquisite!':D

Tony

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3 hours ago, TheBaron said:

Today's one is: 'exquisite!':D

 

what's odd about exquisite?  Seems normal enough to me.

 

It's all coming along swimmingly Crisp.  Where would you say your mojo is on the mojometer ? (or should that be mojometer?)

 

Mojo.jpg

 

 

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Oh, solidly in the yellow, gusting green; I'm really enjoying this one.  Good kit (for one that's 20-odd years old, it's excellent), for a start.  

 

The real give-away, though, is the amount of reading around the subject that I'm doing.  Like all British boys raised in the 60s, I loved all things Spitfire when I was young.  It would be an exaggeration to say I'd lost interest in them, but they would be well down my list  of beloved Naval aircraft - behind the Fury & Firefly even if you just list fighter monoplanes. (I know; I'm a weirdo).

 

But this build has made me dig out the books - David Brown's and Mike Crossley's especially - and I'm enjoying re-discovery.  Actually, to be strictly accurate that should be discovery, not re-discovery; hitherto I'd not paid much attention to the post-War Seafires.  The 17 & the 47 were the real deal; almost all of the quirks that made the type so dodgy to fly to & from a deck had been addressed (especially by the 47), so the FAA finally got to fly the finest fighter aircraft of its era to its full potential.

 

What couldn't the Stan Orrs and Dicky Corks of this world have done with a Mk.47 a bit earlier?!  Or even a Mk.17?

 

 

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Great to see you enjoying this build. Incidentally, is Crispo-bodging and new verb now?

 

Sigh! The ever changing landscape of Earthling modelling speak!

 

Bewildered of Mars

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It may or may not be a new verb, but it is emphatically not a new activity; I look at builds like Hendie's Pullman (isn't Pullman Hendie a small village somewhere in Somerset?) and Martian's SH-34 and marvel at the precision of their scratch building work.  I love scratch building, but I'd be the first to say I have lots to learn.  In the meantime, I'm happy Crispo-bodging.

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6 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

I love scratch building, but I'd be the first to say I have lots to learn.  In the meantime, I'm happy Crispo-bodging.

 

I for one think you are a lot further down the path of enlightenment than you think you are.   

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Real progress to report today!

 

First up, the seat was finished (a tiny bit of weathering was added after this photo):

36538987053_928f5548e3_c.jpg

 

That meant that the cockpit could be glued into position - here with some taping to check alignment - Airfix 1990s-stylee more than a little vague about placement:

37160854176_e7280048e0_c.jpg

 

And then, yes, time to glue the fuselage:

37160850956_39f1829935_c.jpg

 

The resin replacement nose is not glued; just dry fitted here.  

 

Only after this glorious moment did I note the fact that I had yet to fit the camera windows on the port side and underside, but luckily that school-boy error was salvageable with a little ingenuity! (A brass rod down the gap where the rudder will be gave me sufficient purchase to push them into place).

 

I was a bit concerned about the fit at the wing roots in earlier dry fittings, but the cockpit being glued into position forces the fuselage sides a bit wider, so they actually (dry) fit pretty nicely.

37178841852_7c54387a40_c.jpg

 

Oooh - a Seafire!

 

Out on the tiles tomorrow evening with an ex-RN chum in London, so more at the weekend.  There is a minor glue thumb mark on the top of the cowling, and the seams need a little work (though nothing drastic) - so the next hour or so of work isn't going to make exciting viewing anyway.

 

But this is coming together quite nicely.

 

Crisp

 

 

Edited by Ex-FAAWAFU
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11 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

But this is coming together quite nicely.

Agreed, very much so! :clap:  :clap: 

 

11 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Only after this glorious moment did I note the fact that I had yet to fit the camera windows on the port side and underside, but luckily that school-boy error was salvageable with a little ingenuity!

Sad to say, but I'm glad I'm not the only one having those kind of moments .... :doh:  :D 

 

Ciao

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Safely survived the run ashore up that Lunnun, and still making good progress.

 

As I said earlier in the build, I have a thing about rigid control surfaces and how they make models look unrealistically "wooden" - I have opted to remedy this by adding some Barracudacast resin to the build.  There is a well-known photo of 1832 NAS Seafire 46s at Culham, with the aircrew all standing in front of a cab as it's refuelled - there aren't many pics of Mk.46s in squadron service, so I am relying on this one a lot.... and one thing it shows is that the elevators of a Seafire Mk.46 at rest are very deflected under gravity - fully nose-up, at a guess.

 

Anyway, since you last saw this beast...

 

...the resin tail has been glued in place (it fits beautifully), ready for elevators in due course:

36579480773_7a330fb8ed_c.jpg

 

...as has the rudder, slightly offset from the centre to give it a bit more life:

36579480043_9acd291c3e_c.jpg

 

In this general shot of where I have got to, you can see:

 

…the brass Master cannon barrels - I have prepared the starboard wing for them (as you can see from the lack of plastic cannon "stub");

…the multicoloured downward ident lights, painted and glued in place;

…the glued starboard wing (port wing still just dry fitted until I have sorted the cannons on that side;

…the ailerons removed from their pouring stubs and almost ready to fit (see below) - plus of course the Airfix ailerons cut away;

…the entry door to the cockpit glued in place;

…the windscreen and canopy with internal frames painted NATO Black to match the cockpit;

…and the resin upper nose now glued in place.

36579480423_29be493433_c.jpg

 

I have also painted the wheel wells interior green (a base coat anyway), and you can probably just about make out the gyro gunsight, which is glued in place, as is the windscreen.  

37219678822_46abe80623_c.jpg

 

Here is a closer shot of the cockpit area, so you can see the strengthening girder thingy behind the roll-over bar as well as the filler cap for the rear fuselage fuel tank.

36993755420_b45043fb63_c.jpg

 

Finally, if you looked closely at the starboard aileron in the second photo, you will have seen a large hole where there was a bubble (unusual in BarracudaCast stuff, but even the good stuff sometimes has flaws).  I have since plugged it with a section of plastic rod.

 

So, lots going on - once the port cannon barrels are sorted and the port wing glued, I will be able to glue the wing in place.

 

Still having fun.

 

More over weekend

 

Crisp

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:wow: Excellent progress there, Crisp! :clap:

 

Can I please ask how thw ailerons were connected to their pouring stubs? Which side, I mean - I'm considering a resin casting experiment for my current build

 

TIA

 

Ciao

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15 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Pouring stubs on the wing side - the long edge, with a T-piece protecting them both (i.e. they were cast as a pair)

Cheers Crisp, thanks :thumbsup:

 

Ciao

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Very nice interventions, Crisp,on this Seafire!!!

Those lights are great, as well as the cockpit and the combination of different sub assemblies.

I think this project will satisfy you and restore the motivation to carry on the other ongoing projects!!!

Looking forward for your next update!!!;)

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I looked up that photo - that is a most bizarre sight indeed. If it was just one, I'd blame the pilot for dropping a seat strap on the column, but it seems to be all of them. On a contest table that would elicit some startled glances, I think. Something to remember if I ever build any of the late mark Spits in my stash.

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14 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

it shows is that the elevators of a Seafire Mk.46 at rest are very deflected under gravity - fully nose-up, at a guess.

Curious photo that.

 

Warningnon-expert spitfire pontification about to happen so feel free to deny and even ridicule :D

 

But it looks to me like those seafires are specifically posed with that degree of nose up elevator.  The stick must surely have been right back against the front edge of the seat?

 

I don't know what (if any) control locks spitfires/seafires had or if they varied from mark to mark.  But I can't imagine that the elevators would fall naturally to that nose up deflection by gravity.  If that was the tendency then i would have thought that the elevator balance would feel horrible wouldn't it?

 

It's not uncommon to see photos of spitfires parked with no elevator deflection - which makes me wonder if the elevator balance is neutral (or it could be locked I s'pose).  Of course it's also very comment to see some deflection - and I agree entirely that a model looks less 'wooden' with some deflection.

 

To my limited breadth of knowledge it's actually more common to see some nose down deflection than some nose up.  And I've always assumed (and it's merely an uneducated assumption)  that this was because it's probably more likely that the aircraft will be left - whether by pilot or engineer - with the stick pushed forward towards the instrument panel rather than pulled back towards the seat.

 

But.  For all that.  It looks really quite striking with the elevators fully up.  And you've got undeniable photographic evidence to prove your case Crisp :winkgrin: 

 

 

 

 

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There were two control locks, a strut between the column, the seat and stbd fuselage longeron (I wonder if that might explain port aileron up), and the other strut locked the rudder pedals.

As you say, looking at pics shows a whole variation of control surface positions!

 

Edited by 71chally
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In case anyone is confused, this is the photo to which @Fritag and I are referring:

37215946516_9f32e2b09d_h.jpg

 

On reflexion, I think you might have a point about control locks - both the two nearer aircraft have their elevators hard nose-up.  You can just see that the third aircraft from the camera has its elevator nose-down, but just as I was about to comment I realised that it's a Mk.17 (different tail / rudder profile, & single prop) - and the furthest away (another Mk.46) you can't see either way.  

 

Considering how short a time these aircraft were in service, there is a surprising amount of wear / weathering around the cowlings and the pilot entry doors.  These young thrusters are all RNVR (1832 was a Reserve squadron), but judging by the medal count they had flown a fair amount during the war!  I assume the 2 & 1/2 in the front row is either the CO or SPLOT, and he appears to be well into his fourth row of medals…  [I have also only just noticed the Firefly just visible at far left, above the fuel bowser.]

 

[By the way, any Spitfire experts out there: is that thing sticking up out of the wing (just by the left foot of the rating refuelling the aircraft) one of the rods that gave a visual indication of the wheels being locked down?  I have obtained a copy of the pilot's notes, which talk about this still being fitted despite there being an indicator light inside the cockpit.  If so it looks rather larger than I anticipated!]

 

As I said, there aren't that many extant photos of Mk.46s in squadron service (mostly because they didn't serve with many squadrons, or for very long, being an interim design awaiting the FR47).  This next one was, I suspect, taken during the same visit to 1832 NAS:

37215947236_76b8fe384c_h.jpg

 

I think that's interesting because the elevator is still quite nose up, even with a pilot on board and his engine running - might be more to do with keeping his tail down?

 

Finally, the tail of LA541, one of the Mk.46 prototypes - one of those "official" Farnborough / Boscombe Down portrait photos of a new aircraft type.

37215946006_e58af85f4b_b.jpg

 

I think what we're basically saying is that I can pose the elevators pretty much how I like, up to and including full deflection!  Not wooden and central, anyway!

 

What a beautiful aircraft, anyway.  Probably heresy to many, but I have always thought the long nose of the Griffon Spit/Seafire made it look even nicer.  I remember building a ?Revell Mk.XIV & Flying Bomb kit when I was a boy; that was the first time I consciously realised that Spitfires didn't all have short noses and 3-blade props - I recall even as an 8- or 9-year old thinking that 5 blades and that aristocratic nose made it look incredibly cool; I think contra-props might have blown my young mind altogether!

 

More modelling later

 

Crisp

Edited by Ex-FAAWAFU
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The pictures originate from a very good 'Flight' article when they Visited 1832 RNVR at Culham, early 1948.  It's a very good article that gives info on the type that may well have been lost forever otherwise.  

 

Picture with all the tail in, but not original article here, https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1948/1948 - 0261.html?search=seafire

Peter Arnold, who owns LA546, also has an original (far better quality) of this shot, posted here,  http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/Mark12/media/bWVkaWFJZDoxMzYzMzM2NTc=/?ref=

 

Here's the mechanical indicator on Ia.

To me it looks like an item near the refuellers foot, certainly bigger, more misshaped and wrongly positioned for the U/C ind.

35908983493_2d58e89c52_z.jpgSpitfire Ia N3200 by James Thomas, on Flickr

 

 

The elevators up for ground running and taxing makes perfect sense, to keep that tail down!

Edited by 71chally
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Decision made:

37409357095_c91653511f_c.jpg

 

Port aileron slightly down (and though it looks here as though the port nav light isn't properly aligned with the wing, that's an optical illusion):

37409357315_174b00cbda_c.jpg

 

So obviously starboard slightly up:

37409358175_d501f4e000_c.jpg

 

…and we have a Seafire really taking shape now (and, by the way, kudos to 90s Airfix, because with a little bit of care the fit is excellent):

37011393120_27a29f3a47_c.jpg

 

[The spinner is just dry fitted - it was one of the pieces that had been started by this kit's previous owner - and to be honest he'd made a bit of a bodge of it, so it needs a fair amount of work]

 

Happy Crisp

Edited by Ex-FAAWAFU
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