Bigdave22014 Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Martian Hale said: for a 1832 machine, Didn't realise they'd been around that long 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Martian Hale said: Massively up for this one, more so in that one of the main users of the type was 1832 Squadron at Culham. Then you might enjoy this (if you haven't seen it before) 'Flight' article about 1832 RNVR Seafire 46s at Culham,http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchi...0-%200259.htmlhttp://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchi...0-%200260.htmlhttp://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchi...0-%200261.html BTW there are some good threads on LA546 on Key Publishing, from the guy that owns it, this is one of his shots, http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/Mark12/media/bWVkaWFJZDo2NzgyMDgyMg==/?ref= Interesting that it seems to get rendered in the TSS and EDSG schemes as 900 LM Edited September 10, 2017 by 71chally 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles87 Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 Room for one more at the back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted September 10, 2017 Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 I have been doing more research re colour schemes, and came across a most informative thread on this very forum: In that thread (Post 29), Denford (a user name I am not familiar with in recent times) states with some authority that either TSS or EDSG uppers are possible - and I quote: - LA545 was the last machine (in fact only the fifth built) to be finished in the ‘Temperate Sea Scheme’ of Extra Dark Sea Grey and Dark Slate Grey upper surfaces with Sky undersides. - LA546 was the first machine to be finished in the later scheme of EDSG and Sky. The change of colours appears to correspond to the change of upper-wing roundel from ‘Red and Blue only’ to the later Red-Thin White-Blue. This statement was based on some detailed research, so who am I (a mere dabbler in the Pooh-trap of deep experts that constitutes Spit-/Sea-fires) to disagree? Incidentally, @Scimitar (without wishing to poke a stick into a hornets' nest...), this would tend to suggest that LA546 / 900 / LM wasn't in TSS, as shown in the profile you quote above. Model Alliance's researchers tend to agree, putting it in EDSG: ...so I think I am leaving towards EDSG, since both Airfix & after market seem to be producing transfers aimed at EDSG (and it's a great scheme...) 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huvut76g7gbbui7 Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 4 hours ago, 71chally said: LA546 on Key Publishing, From that very source. In the first pic I would have said EDSG and Sky but in the second ? http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/Mark12/media/cGF0aDovNDYtTEE1NDYtNzctMDAyLmpwZw==/?ref= http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/Mark12/media/bWVkaWFJZDo2NjI5Mjk4NQ==/?ref= 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted September 10, 2017 Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 The second merely underlines what we all know, which is that interpreting colour schemes from B&W photographs is fought with difficulty. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 14 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: The second merely underlines what we all know, which is that interpreting colour schemes from B&W photographs is fought with difficulty. ...and in that state anything could have happened to it! Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 (edited) It's an interesting subject for sure. Even some service 47s were finished in TSS and are pictured so well into 1948. I don't know if it's an erroneous assumption on my part, but I thought that the wartime style roundel (with the thin white portion) went out with TSS? You seem to see that in mixed formations of Fireflies that were going though the scheme change and the roundel style has also changed. What doesn't help is just how difficult it is to discern the TSS camo in most B&W shots. There's quite a few decent pics of 46s and 47s in Flight, if I had endless amounts of money and time I would seek copies of the original prints/negs. If helps at all Crisp I have got the Shacklady Spitfire/Seafire bible and Sqns of the FAA if you need anything from them. Anyway, the thing to remember is that it is your kit and you can paint it how you want, I don't want to contribute to sapping the mojo out of the build - just don't fold the bleddy wings! Edited September 10, 2017 by 71chally 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted September 10, 2017 Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 I have Squadrons of the FAA (both the recent edition - a complete re-write) & the previous 80s version. But thanks for the offer! The only thing concrete I have done so far is to remove all the Interior Green paint applied by the kit's previous owner - so we are pretty much back to zero (other than his glued airscrews, which I'm not using anyway. No photos - but work has commenced! 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 Compared with the average man on the street I'm a spitfire/seafire expert. Compared with the average BM'er I'm a spitfire/searfire ignoramus. But I know wot I like (to take refuge in that well known phrase of them as knows nowt about art....) - and I like griffon engine, low back, late mark spitfires/seafires muchly (bigly?) I shan't be capable of following (much less contributing to) the educated debate on colours/units/cockpit, camera & weapons fit etc. So I shall simply sit back and enjoy a spitty (seafiry) getting Crispinated. Lay on Macduff........ 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob G Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 On 09/10/2017 at 6:55 AM, Scimitar said: I knew my frequent references to HMS Fulmar would have a subliminal effect.. Ooh, that's rather spesh... Noice. Such a shame that it's apparently not pukkah. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moaning dolphin Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 Shame the old Seaking is on hold, but I don't blame you. I've had a 6 month hiatus so far but looking to start something new soon. I nearly snapped out of it a few weeks ago but that photobucket debacle put a nail in the coffin, too much life going on! I completed my own FR46 earlier this year, I would put a picture up but its still on PB! This was to be a quick build to clear it off the shelf of doom. The only scratch building I did was to imitate the camera equipment behind the camera ports, before rubbing down the camera ports and painting over when I realized they weren't fitted to this aircraft! Oh well at least I know they are in there, I never realized the two sets of wings are different either, I thought airfix were being nice and providing a folded and flight version! Its a lovelly build and is a good one to get the mojo going. I did get a bit embroiled in the colour scheme debate, there is a lot of well intentioned information out there but to be honest I found it all confusing so thought screw it and went for the two tone version. Just pick a scheme and build it, personally I can swing either way and will just enjoy the build any way! Bob 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
At Sea Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 Do you want to borrow my Seafire book? Warpaint No.20 I'll want it back but happy to lend. PM me your address & I'll pop it in the post. It's a lovely kit and makes an enjoyable build. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted September 11, 2017 Author Share Posted September 11, 2017 (edited) @At Sea, that is a most generous offer, but I already have the Warpaint. I'd love the Modellers' Data File, but so farvthey've onoy re-issued the Merlin-engined volume, not Griffon. Nice to have rather than essential, anyway, because as others habe said the evidence is far from conclusive.. so it's a case of "my model, my scheme". I have started trying to clean up the contra-props today. God only knows what my predecessor used to glue it, but it might as we;l be concrete for all the progress I am making. I do have a plan B if necessary. I've worked out why therecare extra blades in there, though; there is also a spinner for a 5-bladed prop. Which is odd, since the Mk45 was a high back. Or did Airfix plan (or even release) a Mk 22? Edited September 11, 2017 by Ex-FAAWAFU 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 (edited) Yes, they did a Spitfire F.22/24 boxing and the five bladed prop is for that. Talking of the 45, I've often wondered if it is possible to build the highback Seafire 45 using a mixture of the various Airfix Spit/Seafire kits? Can use the contra-props as well of course, Courtesy Aviation Photo Company Edited September 11, 2017 by 71chally 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted September 11, 2017 Author Share Posted September 11, 2017 The 45 was basically a Navalised 21... Anyway, this seems to suggest that it is possible, but not easy, to get to a 21 via the PR XIX, so... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 Thanks Crisp, was wondering about a love child created from the loins of the XIX and 46/47 kits! That is a cracking build with great photography! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James B Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 I'll pull up a chair if that's ok? Not that I'll have anything to add, but I am keen to learn from all of the extremely knowledgeable people in here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted September 12, 2017 Author Share Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, 71chally said: Thanks Crisp, was wondering about a love child created from the loins of the XIX and 46/47 kits!! I think that would probably be doable, but not simple; you'd probably need access to an Airfix Mk.XVII too, for instance for the rudder? None the less, one of the joys of these Airfix Seafires is the fact that you get two sets of wings - build a Mk.47 and you have some spare 46 (or 45...) wings - or for that matter, build a spread Mk.XVII & you could do something with a folded Seafire XV... I do have a Mk.XIX in the stash (and a Revell rebox of Special Hobby Mk.XV), so these are all interesting ideas... ...but not for now, for me anyway - this is mojo restoration, and kit-bashing is going well off at a tangent that adds complexity / time / challenge etc. But for a future project, it might be fun to bash a XIX fuselage / 46 wing / cast copy of XVII rudder into a 45. [There is also a photo in the Warpaint Griffon Seafire book that caught my eye for future ideas; a bare metal XVII at Hal Far in c.1947. Hmmm.] What I will say is that the evidence of my spares box suggests that cross-kit consistency in size / scale seems surprisingly decent. I've been experimenting with boosting the Mk.46 cockpit a bit, but without going the whole Aires etc. resin hog. I have access to a fair few Eduard (plastic, not PE) Spitfire cockpit parts from an abandoned low-back Mk.XVI build (not my build or kit, but I was quick to snaffle up the unbuilt remains). It appears to match the Airfix parts remarkably well - the seat is certainly going to see some use, and some of the sidewall added parts. Edited September 12, 2017 by Ex-FAAWAFU 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdave22014 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 On 9/8/2017 at 7:54 PM, Ex-FAAWAFU said: To be built essentially OOB (other than the after-market stuff already mentioned, to correct known issues with the kit). Oh we knew it wouldn't last.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted September 12, 2017 Author Share Posted September 12, 2017 Not sure that replacing a seat really constitutes an outbreak of rampant über-detailing, but whatever... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christer A Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Late mark Seafire? Griffon? AM-goodies? Lot's and lot's of talk abut colors, references and whatnot? I'll pull up a chair, and starts to take notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: Not sure that replacing a seat really constitutes an outbreak of rampant über-detailing, but whatever... Thin end of the wedge..... Slippery slope..... Camel's nose in the tent.... Please note: such arguments are not always logically fallacious.......... Edited September 12, 2017 by Fritag 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 And once again, as in so many things, I agree with him 😂 Which doesn't mean, do not do that, simply because alter-ating models is who we are Go for it Crisp Its only a g.... 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSTON Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Watching you ... NOICE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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