Jump to content
This site uses cookies! Learn More

This site uses cookies!

You can find a list of those cookies here: mysite.com/cookies

By continuing to use this site, you agree to allow us to store cookies on your computer. :)

Recommended Posts

Hello all, I have decided to chip in with something that is, shall I say, not quite mainstream!

 

The Burgess-Dunne floatplane was a tail-less biplane with V-shaped wings, and was apparently a success, but not so much so as to go into full production! It was tested for experimental work by the Coast Artillery in Canada, but according to Scaleplanes the work carried out was unknown.

 

Anyway, here is what I am up against:

 

36108092253_53e9d0a751_z.jpg

 

36108103343_d27627a9c0_z.jpg

 

36745505872_a133b8cee9_z.jpg

 

36776408141_4af5c1aa1e_z.jpg

 

The kit is fairly basic, as can probably be imagined with a vacform, the plans are even more so. I need to try and source an engine for this, and according to some references from Flight November 15th 1913 it had an 80hp Gnome engine at the rear with a pusher prop. I will try Vector for that.

 

Apart from getting everything sanded out, I will have my work cut out in at least three other places:

 

  • I need to heat the upper wing in the centre to create a 'drape' in the trailing edge in the middle of the 'V'
  • I need to cut out the rear and lower section of the fuselage, because according to the plan in Flight it was an open structure and not fabric covered
  • And also I need to get a strange aerofoil surface near the leading edges, as the aerofoil seemed to be like it had been laid on cone and got more pronounced towards the wingtips.

 

Quite some time ago, I posted how happy I was getting this, and one of our fellow BM'ers, @steelpillow gave these links:

 

"The Dunne Biplane", Flight 15 November 1913, pages 1241-1245: http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1913/1913 - 1215.html

The "Dunne Biplane" at this time was the D.8, the one that Burgess licensed.

"The Dunne Aeroplane", Flight 18 June 1910, pages 459-481: http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1910/1910 - 0479.html

 

So that is the extra bit of info I have. I will be making a start on this in later September, but if anyone else has any info, I would be grateful, especially on sourcing the engine and prop!

 

Thanks for looking,

 

Ray

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel a Sir Humphrey moment coming on, 'A brave decision, minister'.

The box lid tells me all I need to know to be afraid, very afraid - 'For the experienced modeller - not for children'

Sure you'll breeze through it, shame this starts too late to be a joint entry for the blitzbuild

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a bit interesting. Have a heap of fun with it, and we'll all follow along.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow - what an amazing machine!  It'll be great to see a vacform kit come together, good luck with the build!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am so pleased that you are going to build this because I have this type on my list to scratch build at some time in the future, so I will be looking out for specific details. I am greatly in favour of these less well known types - even more so as it is a pusher!

 

Good luck with the build and wishing you every success.

 

P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Ray,

 

Welcome to the GB! That's a really unusual aircraft and it's very courageous of you to do it!

 

I wish you luck and look forward to seeing it taking shape.

 

Cheers

 

Jaime

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very different entry compared to the rest of us Ray. I will be interested to see how you tackle the issue you have pointed out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The shape and form of that thing is just fantastic Ray. Best of luck with this aircraft!

Tony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks all for the comments and encouragement! I think I will need it!

 

I have to admit it daunts me a bit, but I find that a good old Group Build gets me to build things I would not do normally. 

I will try to show how things go, and I always show things that go wrong too!

 

I will not be starting this due to other commitments until the 20th September, but I will crack on and report from then.

 

Thanks for the interest,

 

Ray

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll be following this with great interest, too :). Wonderful protoype - the very first V-/Delta-ish-wing, back in 1910! - and a vacform to boot. I love watching vacforms being built, having three in my collection and being rather scared of them.

 

Cheers,

Alex. :sheep: <-- not a vacform - or a V-wing

 

 

Edited by AlexN
Idiot typos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Ray

 

Fantastic choice, I have dropped you a PM with someone who may be able to help with the missing parts.

 

Good luck with the build

 

cheers Pat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, JOCKNEY said:

Hi Ray

 

Fantastic choice, I have dropped you a PM with someone who may be able to help with the missing parts.

 

Good luck with the build

 

cheers Pat

 

Thanks Pat for the suggestion, I will check it out!

 

Ray

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will second that "WOW".  

 

I wish you all the best luck with his kit.

 

You are a braver man than me.

 

Greg in OK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a superb subject Ray; really different.

 

I did a little Googling and found a reproduction of the Canadian aircraft at the RCAF Memorial Museum. It's in the photograph right at the bottom of this page, in front of and to the right of the helicopter:

 

http://airforcemuseum.ca/en/exhibits

 

I don't know if you have this article about a flight of the prototype in Canada?

 

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1914/1914 - 0476.html

 

That one gives the engine was a Curtiss Wright water cooled 90-100.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss_OXX

 

There are plans here showing that single seat aircraft, but I think you may have them;

 

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1914/1914 - 0645.html

 

There's a good photograph on the page before that, more details on the one after.

 

Not sure if I've been any help; good luck and have lots of fun with this; you're a brave man but it looks very much worth it :thumbsup2: 

 

Best regards

TonyT

 

Edit: I just looked more closely at the plans in your kit; my apologies; it's a two seater.

 

Wikipedia has some good stuff here about the Burgess-Dunne two seaters. Curtiss or Salmson  9M engines by the look of it:

 

  • The second machine was very similar to the first, but room was made for a second seat by replacing the single fuselage mounted radiator with a pair fixed to the rear float struts.[13]
The second machine was bought by the Canadian government for the Canadian Aviation Corps and was their first military aircraft. It was shipped to Europe for service in World War I, but was seriously damaged in transit and not used. The third machine, another two-seater but powered[15] by a Salmson M-9 radial providing 135 hp (101 kW), was delivered to the US Signal Corps in either 1914 or 1915.[16] Two were also delivered to the US Navy[17] as type AH-7, fitted with a 90 hp (67 kW) Curtiss engine[15] and AH-10 with the 100 hp Curtiss. The latter set a US altitude record of 10,000 fft (3,050 m) on 23 April 1915.[15] One Burgess-Dunne was configured as a landplane for a time.[18][19]
 
 

Best Regards

TT

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ooh, this could be VERY interesting....I'll take a seat at the bar!

 

Ian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh My goodness !!

Hello Ian, may I sit beside at the bar too !! :cheers:

Ray ! Congratulations and good luck !

I will follow the building ! Will be great !

Sincerely.

CC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello everyone, I will finally be able to start this one very soon. I would like to say thanks to all who have checked in, and helped with info and encouragement, especially TonyTiger66 for the links:

On 9/6/2017 at 1:16 AM, TonyTiger66 said:

This is a superb subject Ray; really different.

 

I did a little Googling and found a reproduction of the Canadian aircraft at the RCAF Memorial Museum. It's in the photograph right at the bottom of this page, in front of and to the right of the helicopter:

 

http://airforcemuseum.ca/en/exhibits

 

I don't know if you have this article about a flight of the prototype in Canada?

 

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1914/1914 - 0476.html

 

That one gives the engine was a Curtiss Wright water cooled 90-100.

 

 

Best regards

TonyT

 

 

Amazing to think a repro was built!

 

I will post progress as soon as I can, and thanks again!

 

Ray

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello all. Well, finally some progress, not much, but I am on the way! First up was to cut out the parts, which I did with a set of haberdasher scissors, which allows finger-damage-free trimming of the bits compared to using a knife blade. I then sorted out the parts which go towards building the fuselage, and sanded them down to roughly the right dimensions. I used a knife to pare off quite a bit of the carrier plastic, then sandpaper to get the final finish. the fuselage components are:

 

37429060195_8e3788a7c4_z.jpg

 

The rectangular part on the right is the rear fuselage, where the engine will fit later on. I used this as a guide to ensure that I had got the fuselage halves the right size as it now fits exactly onto the rear. There will not be much visible inside the cockpits, but I am contemplating adding 'detail' inside to busy it up a bit, but it will be a 'best guess' as reference images are a bit thin on the ground! There are strange control quadrants illustrated in the references that I have, I will try to use those (they are for turning the plane in flight and sending it up and down, and replaced the joystick) - they are in both seating positions.

 

The only gluing I have done so far is to fit ledges around the fuselage side to give a key for the future joining of the halves, and I have used some 5 or 10 thou card for that, and dry-fitted the halves to ensure it will slide together later. Oh yes, I also glued in a fingerprint underneath when the liquid poly went where I did not want it to go. I will need to do a bit of sanding there, but that would not be a surprise with a vacform...

 

37030286500_a522884700_z.jpg

 

More soon hopefully!

 

Thanks for looking in,

 

Ray

 

Edited by Ray S
Tidy up the post

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Ray,

Will try my first Vac formed, so you cut the parts with scissors ?

I've been told to mark the parts with an ink pen then cut vertically with a sharp cutter...

And then sanding till the mark is reached.

So there is an easy way ?

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, corsaircorp said:

Hello Ray,

Will try my first Vac formed, so you cut the parts with scissors ?

I've been told to mark the parts with an ink pen then cut vertically with a sharp cutter...

And then sanding till the mark is reached.

So there is an easy way ?

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

Hello Corsaircorp, I forgot to mention that I had run a hard pencil around the parts before cutting them out.

 

Previously I used to use a fresh blade in a Stanley Knife to cut out the parts, but I found that sometimes the blade slipped and caused a bit of damage to the parts, and I needed to be careful when I had scored the plastic and then bend the plastic to snap it away from the part to prevent me from damaging the bits. A couple of years ago I built the Contrail Short Singapore III flying boat and that was when I tried using the very sharp, very robust scissors, and I found it was so much easier. Others may disagree!

 

I then tend to pare away a lot of the excess plastic with a knife scraped perpendicular to the plastic - that gets rid of a lot of surplus quickly, as does a sanding block and then use wet'n'dry to finally sand down to the pencil line (ish). I use strips of doubled over sellotape to hold the parts when sanding down. I also do this dry, it creates dust so I use a mask, but I can then collect a lot of said dust and use it with liquid polystyrene cement after mixing it to produce a gloopy filler, and as it is the same stuff essentially as the plastic, it works better than some fillers do.

 

I hope this helps, but I must say I get my maximum model making enjoyment out of vacforms (and the occasional scratchbuild), and I think it is a wonderful medium to get in to if you can!

 

Ray

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well done Ray, I think everyone should have a go at a Vacform they can be had very cheaply on evilBay, I've supplied a few to fellow Britmodellers in the past and as we are still on speaking terms it couldn't have gone that bad ! 

However you remove the parts from the backing sheet, if you sand away too much material, it just means a bit more filler to hide the gap ;)

 

cheers Pat

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good start. I will be watching this one closely for future reference (but not a vacform!)

 

P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank Ray,

Thank Pat,

Ok, I take the bet, I surely did'nt choose the easier or the most well finished..;

But !

Thank you for advice and tips !

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×