Airfix Sea King HAR.3 into an HAS.1 or 2

[Meatbox8]

Hello everyone.

 

Inspired by peterairfix's Sea King HAR.3 in the RFI section I'm quite interested to know what would be required to convert this kit in to a FAA HAS.1 or 2.  Would it be a major structural job or rather a change of some smaller details?  I don't have any particularly good reference materials for the Sea King but the two marks certainly look very similar in photos.  Structurally it just seems to be that the HAR.3 has more windows (which even my limited modelling 'skills' should be able to deal with) but I am guessing there would be differences underneath to facilitate the sonar dipping capability of the Naval variants. 

 

Any info would be gratefully received. 

[Meatbox8]

P.S.  I'm guessing that building an HAS.2 would be easier as it has the same number of tail rotor blades ans the HAR.3.

[junglierating]

Think the mk4 kit has both six and five TRB.

[Meatbox8]

1 hour ago, junglierating said:

Think the mk4 kit has both six and five TRB.

Thanks Junglie

 

I've got the Mk4 in the stash somewhere so that solves one problem.  BTW are you planning on heading over in my direction anytime soon?

[71chally]

The HAR.3 boxing also has the two tail rotor designs.

 

You will probably have more options with building a HAS.2, but it would be nice to see a HAS.1 in it's basic beauty!

I believe the HAR.3 was based on the 1 & 2, I remember at St Mawgan the had a HAS.1 as a ground training aid as it was nearer to that variant than the later Royal Navy versions.

 

With the kit, you will have to at least delete the two rear most side (bulged) windows, and the forward port side window, should be straight forward enough.

Even the RAF Sea Kings were fitted with the SONAR blanking dish under the fuselage, and this is represented on the kit hull bottom.

There are probably other minor differences as well.

 

 

If this doesn't sell a Mk1 to you, nothing will!

Edited August 25, 2017 by 71chally

[Meatbox8]

1 hour ago, 71chally said:

The HAR.3 boxing also has the two tail rotor designs.

 

You will probably have more options with building a HAS.2, but it would be nice to see a HAS.1 in it's basic beauty!

I believe the HAR.3 was based on the 1 & 2, I remember at St Mawgan the had a HAS.1 as a ground training aid as it was nearer to that variant than the later Royal Navy versions.

 

With the kit, you will have to at least delete the two rear most side (bulged) windows, and the forward port side window, should be straight forward enough.

Even the RAF Sea Kings were fitted with the SONAR blanking dish under the fuselage, and this is represented on the kit hull bottom.

There are probably other minor differences as well.

 

 

If this doesn't sell a Mk1 to you, nothing will!

 

Absolutely.  Sold to the man in the hat.  I have the Model Alliance Ark Royal Air Wing selection decal sheet which actually has a mk1 and a mk2 in the scheme.  It also means I won't have to limit my options on the mk4 kit I have if I can use one of the tail rotors from the mk3.  I'd quite like a later model too but the Revell kit seems to be as rare as hen's teeth. 

[Britman]

Thats what I call a pucka paint scheme! 

[Meatbox8]

55 minutes ago, andyf117 said:

The question's been asked before - the basics would be the same as for the Revell kit, as outlined here:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234975759-rn-har5-172-revell-cat1/&do=findComment&comment=1880792

In addition, yes, you'd need to open up the sonar well, which I think comes as a pre-moulded blanking plate in the Airfix kit, and also remove the rear fuselage strake, and nose spotlght.

 

There are currently a couple of Revell kits on eBay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Revell-Westland-SEA-KING-HAS-6-AEW-Scale-1-72-/222620177417?hash=item33d5325409:g:swoAAOSwcUFZmyIL

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Revell-Westland-SEA-KING-HAS-6-AEW-Scale-1-72-sealed-box-damage-/253114690076?hash=item3aeecfaa1c:g:iecAAOSweQBZoCmQ

 

For a HAS.1 any of the Revell issues could be used, as described here:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234961423-early-seaking/&do=findComment&comment=1641571

I used the original version for mine:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235017400-revell-172-sea-king-has1-824-nas-hms-ark-royal-1976/

 

Andy

Thanks for all that info.  Seems i have a number of options as to how to produce a mk1 or 2.  I may add some later variants too which will sit nicely with the four RN Wessex that I'm planning on building.  The Italeri Wessex kit seems great, especially as the HU.5 I'm currently building is my first EVER helicopter in 40+ years of modelling. 

[71chally]

I know opinion is a bit divided when it comes to the recent Airfix v Revell Sea King kits, but I prefer the Revel kit, surface detail in particular is very nice.

Again, you get both the 5 & 6 blade tail rotor in the kit, and I believe that you get the smaller 'thimble' radome in the box, but would have to check to be sure.

You won't have to blank the windows using this kit.

 

Funny, but I've never considered doing earlier variants from this kit.

 

I will be surprised if you can pick up a Revell one for as cheap as you can find the Airfix Sea King

Edited August 26, 2017 by 71chally

[Meatbox8]

1 hour ago, 71chally said:

I know opinion is a bit divided when it comes to the recent Airfix v Revell Sea King kits, but I prefer the Revel kit, surface detail in particular is very nice.

Again, you get both the 5 & 6 blade tail rotor in the kit, and I believe that you get the smaller 'thimble' radome in the box, but would have to check to be sure.

You won't have to blank the windows using this kit.

 

Funny, but I've never considered doing earlier variants from this kit.

 

I will be surprised if you can pick up a Revell one for as cheap as you can find the Airfix Sea King

Thanks for the gen.  If there's one model aircraft that actually warrants raised rivet detail it's the Sea King.

19 minutes ago, andyf117 said:

I got a Revell HAS.6/AEW.2 on eBay a few weeks ago for £8.43 post free!

  A very good price.  I shall follow the kits on ebay with interest.

[junglierating]

Ive got an idea.....never mind all that blue stuff

Make a Mk6CR.....its green with sponsons and you can use all the das stuff from a mk4 kit leaving you the basics to build an early mk4....simples.

Now i really will have to knuckle down and build mine....no pressure/px

[junglierating]

7 hours ago, andyf117 said:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235021129-revell-172-sea-king-has6cr-845-nas-bosnia-herzegovina-2005/

 

Now i gotta say im quite impressed you have captured it just right.

[Dave Fleming]

The Revell kits have nice surface detail but it's only when you see one alongside the Airfix one that you realise just how underscale the sponsons are. There are other discrepancies that are apparent side by side as well, such as the shape of the exhausts and engine housing. Then again, if you DON'T display them side by side you might be able forget those! :-). (Actually, reminds me there was a big size difference between the Revell and Airfix HAS5/6 radomes, but can't recall which was right.). I do have 6 or 7 of them in the stash, and I don't intend on getting rid just yet!

 

The new SAR version of the Airfix kit is a pretty dedicated mid/late-service HAR3 - you can't make a HAR3A (or a very late service one) from the box as it's missing some of the antennae, LLTV etc, and there appears to be no consideration for later or earlier naval aircraft (Having said that, an Airfix rep once mentioned it was easier/cheaper to do a complete new mould if there were major changes than try to get all options on one mould - to do with production costs as much as anything)

 

Interestingly, it does include parts to make a Falklands service HAR3 (Nose and tail RWR) so maybe we might see one of them someday if they do a mainstream HAR 3 box.

 

The 5 bladed tail rotor is a strange one, I wonder if someone has mixed up the (different) 5 bladed rotor fitted to those aircraft flown in Afghanistan with 'Carson ' main blades, and by the time they realised the tooling was already finished? .It is useful for backdating to a HAS1, or perhaps an early nose radarless West German aircraft (which retained the 5 bladed rotor through out).

 

One thing to watch with HAS1, some HAS2 and similar early aircraft is the rotor blades - the kit has the later composite ones with angled blade roots, the metal ones had a square end at the rotor hub - fortunately easier to remove material than if it had been the other way.

Edited August 29, 2017 by Dave Fleming

[Dave Fleming]

Oh, forgot to say, some Asda stores are selling two HAR3s for £20 at the moment, so might be a chance to stock up! (Also have Harrier GR9s)

[Dave Fleming]

20 hours ago, junglierating said:

Ive got an idea.....never mind all that blue stuff

Make a Mk6CR.....its green with sponsons and you can use all the das stuff from a mk4 kit leaving you the basics to build an early mk4....simples.

Now i really will have to knuckle down and build mine....no pressure/px

 

Interesting snippet - that was considered as an option early on as an alternative to refurbishing Pumas to HC2 standard for the RAF

[Dave Fleming]

On 26/08/2017 at 6:42 PM, 71chally said:

I know opinion is a bit divided when it comes to the recent Airfix v Revell Sea King kits, but I prefer the Revel kit, surface detail in particular is very nice.

Again, you get both the 5 & 6 blade tail rotor in the kit, and I believe that you get the smaller 'thimble' radome in the box, but would have to check to be sure.

You won't have to blank the windows using this kit.

 

Funny, but I've never considered doing earlier variants from this kit.

 

 

Drewe Manton did a HAS one from the original mk 41 kit back in the day.

 

 

http://www.hkngallery.org.uk/hkngallery.nsf/3891afd2ab2c61188025716a0079ceb9/3428b1eca822938580256dac007013e2?OpenDocument

 

Interestingly, someone has previously aske dthe same question as the OP - oh, it WAS the OP! :-)

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234997234-sea-king-har3-in-to-has1/

Edited August 29, 2017 by Dave Fleming

[Meatbox8]

1 hour ago, Dave Fleming said:

 

Drewe Manton did a HAS one from the original mk 41 kit back in the day.

 

 

http://www.hkngallery.org.uk/hkngallery.nsf/3891afd2ab2c61188025716a0079ceb9/3428b1eca822938580256dac007013e2?OpenDocument

 

Interestingly, someone has previously aske dthe same question as the OP - oh, it WAS the OP! :-)

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234997234-sea-king-har3-in-to-has1/

Ha ha. Could be.   Strangely enough I actually did a search to see if anyone had already asked this question and nothing came up.  Anyway, the simple answer to my question is 'yes' with a little bit of work or I get the Revell example so long as I don't mind the under-scale sponsons.  

[Dave Fleming]

Bit of thread resurrection, but looking at this again, one thing to add (for anyone who finds this on a search) is you need to remove the strengthening strip between the fuselage and the boom for an earlier aircraft - not sure when that was introduced (post mid-80s), but it is fairly prominent on the Airfix kit  - you can see it on this pic from the HAR3 walkaround section

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by Dave Fleming

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Can’t recall exactly when the strengthening plates on the transportation joint were added, but definitely not before 1989; I finished my first tour (820 HAS5s) in December 88 and we didn’t have them then.  Annoyingly (not least because one day I plan to build an 819 SAR cab) I cannot remember whether they’d appeared by the time I came back to Sea Kings (1994).

 

There are actually quite a few lumps and bumps that would be missing from an early airframe - especially an HAS1.

[Rickoshea52]

7 hours ago, Dave Fleming said:

Bit of thread resurrection, but looking at this again, one thing to add (for anyone who finds this on a search) is you need to remove the strengthening strip between the fuselage and the boom for an earlier aircraft - not sure when that was introduced (post mid-80s), but it is fairly prominent on the Airfix kit  - you can see it on this pic from the HAR3 walkaround section

 

I just want to point out that that is a HAR3A; the aerial layout the giveaway. 

[Dave Fleming]

3 hours ago, Rickoshea52 said:

I just want to point out that that is a HAR3A; the aerial layout the giveaway. 

 

Good spot, I hadn't paid any attention to that, was just looking for a good shot of the joining strip. You see the strip on HAR, HAS and HC versions

[billmcl61]

Hi, I know that this is an old thread but I was wondering if any of the good folks out there would be able to give me some guidance, I have an Airfix A04063 Westland Sea King  HAS.3 due to arrive in a few days  and I'd like to backdate it to a HAS2 based onboard the Ark Royal (R09) circa 1977/78. This will be my first step towards building the Arks air group,

I have the Airfix Phantom and Buccaneer, and the Sword Gannet straining at the leash, a Revell Wessex on order and the Airfix sea king arriving in a few days, all 1/72 scale .

Although I served on board the Ark as a young fresh out of school stoker and saw these amazing aircraft up close many times, I didn't take the opportunity to gather reference photos and I didn't have the knowledge to really know what I was looking at for future reference.

So on to the matter in hand, I picked the Airfix HAS 3 as I guessed it must be close to a HAS 2, please stop laughing, I'm a stoker not a Wafu I'm still trying to figure out how a massive amount of steel and equipment doesn't just go straight to the floor of the sea, And I was hoping if someone would be able to point out what modifications I would need to make to backdate the kit.

I'm sorry to resurrect an old thread and I'm sure that this has been asked many times before but I just can't seem to find this info.

Oh one last thing, the paint colour, I know that these were a very dark blue but I can't find anything to give me the 381C colour reference or a model paint match, I'd be really grateful for any help you can give.

Bill

[billmcl61]

Oh I forgot to say, what I've found out so far

1 I'll need to fabricate floatation bag canisters for the main wheel hubs

2. They were stuffed full of electronic gear, but as they were never left with the barn door open I think I might just black out the side windows, or fit a simplified interior

3. The side windows will have to be reduced and filled in

4 Main rotor blades have to be modified to square end metal blades

5 exterior aerials will probably be different

6 I have the Model Alliance Ark Royal air wing selection decal sheet set

Bill

[rod mcq]

The Sea Kings were BS381C 633 RAF Blue Grey.

 

If you want an enamel paint then probably the best version is the Sovereign Hobbies paint

https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/collections/colourcoats-sea-british/products/acrn19-raf-blue-grey-bs633

[billmcl61]

Ah excellent thanks Rod, It's a pity we can't get Sovereign paints here on the emerald isle with all these silly shipping restrictions. 

But having the correct colour ref now will let me find a good match

 

Bill