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Mosquito B.IV March 1943 radio / navigation equipment with added question about exhausts!


elger

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Hi all,

 

I've started work on a Mosquito B.IV of 139 Squadron flown by Wing Commander Peter Shand that was lost in April 1943 and I'm wondering about the radio / navigation equipment that it might have carried.

 

Looking at the instructions for the Tamiya FB.VI, there is a choice between the combination of the R.1155 Receiver and the T.1154 Transmitter (the "classic" setup you also find in the old 1/48 Airfix Mosquito, the 1/48 Tamiya B.IV and FB.VI), but there's also an option with just the R.1155 Receiver combined with the Gee navigation units.

 

My question is, does anyone have any idea what setup is this Mosquito is likely to have had?

 

- Elger

 

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Hello Elger

Tracing Mosquito radio fit's isn't easy, there's several variations depending on where built, theatre of operations, date and role. Very early production models would have had the R.1155 Receiver and the T.1154 Transmitter when delivered to units, but with the addition of other equipment the radios were moved into the aft fuselage and operated by remote switchboxes in the cockpit. Examining photo's of your subject may help ID equipment fitted by the aerial fit, but these are often difficult to see. 139 sqn moved to 8 group pathfinders shortly after the date you mention, and would likely have had Gee fitted for this role, they were doing precision bombing raids before this though, so may have had Gee fitted earlier. Have a scan through my thread on Dorothy (link in Sig below) I did a fair amount of internet trawling and there's a few links in there that may be useful. http://www.mossie.org/Mosquito.html may be useful too.

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On 24-8-2017 at 10:17 PM, Dave Swindell said:

Hello Elger

Tracing Mosquito radio fit's isn't easy, there's several variations depending on where built, theatre of operations, date and role. Very early production models would have had the R.1155 Receiver and the T.1154 Transmitter when delivered to units, but with the addition of other equipment the radios were moved into the aft fuselage and operated by remote switchboxes in the cockpit. Examining photo's of your subject may help ID equipment fitted by the aerial fit, but these are often difficult to see. 139 sqn moved to 8 group pathfinders shortly after the date you mention, and would likely have had Gee fitted for this role, they were doing precision bombing raids before this though, so may have had Gee fitted earlier. Have a scan through my thread on Dorothy (link in Sig below) I did a fair amount of internet trawling and there's a few links in there that may be useful. http://www.mossie.org/Mosquito.html may be useful too.

 

Thanks Dave, I've been thinking about your reply and it makes a lot of sense. I'm thinking that the aircraft was flown by a Wing Commander on a mission to Berlin in April 43, if it's true that 139 Squadron was already engaged in precision bombing at the time, as you say shortly before becoming an official pathfinder unit, I'm thinking that Gee is a definite possibility so I'll install that and I won't be fitting the T.1154 transmitter in the fuselage.

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Elger,

I've been checking various Mosquito books for 139 Sqn photo's - After forming up with the Mosquitio's photos show the aerial mast with twin aerials to the fin and port tailplane, this would tally with R.1155 / T.1154 setup. Later photos around May 43 (if dated correctly) don't show the aerial mast, removal of this would be indicative of fitting Gee. The Gee aerial would be a large whip aerial in the same place as the aerial mast, or on the rear canopy, or internally in the rear fuselage. The photos show DZ serial aircraft, which suggest the change was made on squadron some time prior to May 43. If you've got a photo of the aircraft you want to model without the aerial mast I'd say it's most likely to have been fitted with Gee.

For a Gee setup you'll need a type 62 indicating unit behind the pilot, and angled towards the navigator, and a type R1355 Receiver on the port side of the rear shelf as shown here. Both R.1155 / T.1154 would have been removed to fit this, and most likely replaced with TR1133/TR1143 radio in the rear fuselage with a control box in the cockpit below the pilot's throttle box as per this NF 30.

Other kit possibly fitted would be IFF, Air Position Indicator and Monica

This drawing shows a common Gee/IFF setup. ARI 5083 is Gee, ABKI is IFF mk III.

 

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Interesting! Do those photos dated May 43 coincide with the official switch to the pathfinder role? Any chance you could send me some of those photos?

 

I'm going for DZ386 XD-H (so it is a DZ-series aircraft). I don't know if a photo exists of this particular aircraft - if it does, I haven't seen it.

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There's not many photo's of 139 Sqn Mosquito's whilst they were with 2 Group at Marham. Transfer from 2 Group to 8 Group was on 31st May 43, the squadron then moved to Wyton on 4th July 43.

Both this photo:-

b46e8238be2fd1e00a02a47ca188198e.jpg

and the photo at the head of this page show a line up of 139 Sqn Mosquitos at Marham, I think they are actually the same lineup, and the date is quoted as 12th March 43. As they have the external strengthening strake  on the stbd aft fuselage introduced at the end of 42, this date is feasible. The closest aircraft is XD*G, and as per the above link the serial is quoted as DZ421, but DZ421 is also atributed to G-Bar, so this may in fact be an earlier G for which DZ421 was a replacement.

Note the DF loop inside the aft canopy, I wouldn't expect this to be retained if G was fitted. All have the aerial mast and appear to have twin aerials to fin and port tailplane, so I would say R.1155 / T.1154 setup.

The other photo I've found appears in the Aeroplane Icons Mosquito bookazine page 66 and shows DZ464 XD*C and, I think, XD*M. I can't find this photo on the net, but it was taken before May 21st 43 (when DZ464 was lost) and most likely after the above photo's as the grass appears to be much longer (ie  it's growing, so late April/May 43. Neither aircraft has the aerial mast, and I can't make out any whip aerial (but the resolution could be not good enough for it to show) so these two aircraft most likely didn't have R.1155 / T.1154 and may have had Gee.

The Berlin raid on the 20/21 April was given the go-ahead due to a full moon and clear skies to assist navigation and target identification ( Mosquito Bomber/Fighter-Bomber Units 1942-45; Bowman, M. W., page 21 has a short account of the raid by Charles Patterson, one of the pilots, there's also the photo of XD*C on p 18), this would suggest they weren't using Gee.

I've not found any photo's of DZ386 XD-H and there's no reference to one on the Mossie.org production list

On balance I think it more likely that DZ386 had R.1155 / T.1154 and a D/F loop rather than having been converted for Gee when it crashed. DZ386 was the first air to air Mosquito bomber loss of the war.

 

A few links you may or may not be aware of:-

Short history of 139(Jamaica) sqn Mosquito era

A bit about Lothar Linke who shot DZ386 down

W/C Shand & P/O Handley's final resting place

 

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On 28-8-2017 at 11:21 PM, Dave Swindell said:

There's not many photo's of 139 Sqn Mosquito's whilst they were with 2 Group at Marham. Transfer from 2 Group to 8 Group was on 31st May 43, the squadron then moved to Wyton on 4th July 43.

Both this photo:-

b46e8238be2fd1e00a02a47ca188198e.jpg

and the photo at the head of this page show a line up of 139 Sqn Mosquitos at Marham, I think they are actually the same lineup, and the date is quoted as 12th March 43. As they have the external strengthening strake  on the stbd aft fuselage introduced at the end of 42, this date is feasible. The closest aircraft is XD*G, and as per the above link the serial is quoted as DZ421, but DZ421 is also atributed to G-Bar, so this may in fact be an earlier G for which DZ421 was a replacement.

Note the DF loop inside the aft canopy, I wouldn't expect this to be retained if G was fitted. All have the aerial mast and appear to have twin aerials to fin and port tailplane, so I would say R.1155 / T.1154 setup.

The other photo I've found appears in the Aeroplane Icons Mosquito bookazine page 66 and shows DZ464 XD*C and, I think, XD*M. I can't find this photo on the net, but it was taken before May 21st 43 (when DZ464 was lost) and most likely after the above photo's as the grass appears to be much longer (ie  it's growing, so late April/May 43. Neither aircraft has the aerial mast, and I can't make out any whip aerial (but the resolution could be not good enough for it to show) so these two aircraft most likely didn't have R.1155 / T.1154 and may have had Gee.

The Berlin raid on the 20/21 April was given the go-ahead due to a full moon and clear skies to assist navigation and target identification ( Mosquito Bomber/Fighter-Bomber Units 1942-45; Bowman, M. W., page 21 has a short account of the raid by Charles Patterson, one of the pilots, there's also the photo of XD*C on p 18), this would suggest they weren't using Gee.

I've not found any photo's of DZ386 XD-H and there's no reference to one on the Mossie.org production list

On balance I think it more likely that DZ386 had R.1155 / T.1154 and a D/F loop rather than having been converted for Gee when it crashed. DZ386 was the first air to air Mosquito bomber loss of the war.

 

A few links you may or may not be aware of:-

Short history of 139(Jamaica) sqn Mosquito era

A bit about Lothar Linke who shot DZ386 down

W/C Shand & P/O Handley's final resting place

 

 

I found a nice clear version of the line up of 139 squadron Mosquitos in the archive of Getty Images, here: http://www.gettyimages.nl/detail/nieuwsfoto's/war-and-conflict-world-war-two-aviation-pic-february-1943-nieuwsfotos/79621596?esource=SEO_GIS_CDN_Redirect#war-and-conflict-world-war-two-aviation-pic-february-1943-a-line-of-picture-id79621596

 

The caption says its from February 1943. It's also interesting because I've been wondering about the wing tip lights on the trailing edge of the aircraft I'm building; I'm fairly sure that a DZ-series aircraft was built and delivered with the double wing tip lights (as seen in the press photos of 109 squadron for example) but I think that by early 1943 the rear ones had either been covered or the wing tips had been replaced with "standard" single light wing tips. What I gather is there had been some experimenting with rearward facing infra red formation/identification lamps but I don't think it was much of a success and was abandoned.

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Added question. I've been looking into what kind of exhausts might have been fitted. Tamiya suggests the ducted saxophone type in connection to the flame dampening shrouds in the instructions of their 1/32 FB.VI kit. The 5-stack fishtail is suggested for the version without the flame dampeners.

 

I've been doing some googling and I've found out that in the spring of 1943 there was some experimentation with different exhaust types - the fish tail providing more of a boost than the ducted saxophone type and the latter was eventually phased out.

 

Given that DZ386 was flying at night I'm fairly certain about the flame dampening shrouds being fitted, but what would have been underneath? Would 139 squadron still be flying with the ducted saxophone type, or might they have been fitted with the 5-stack fishtails by this stage?

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