Hurricane No.1 Sq R.C.A.F photos, (thread edit)

[Troy Smith]

Since the question I posed belowhas been successfully answered,  I've edited the thread title,  and add some other 1 Sq RCAF pics from another thread at the end.

 

original question.

while image searching I ran across this photo

 

 

 

on pinterest,  with no helpful label.

 

I'm away from most of my books,  this looks to be serialled V6?09,  (parachute strap obscures missing digit) which makes it from this batch

Quote

Block 3/G, Third Gloster Produced Block

Serial Range V6533 - V6582 (50) Mk. I, V6600 - V6649 (50) Mk. I, V6665 - V6704 (40) Mk. I, V6722 - V6761 (40) Mk. I, V6776 - V6825 (50) Mk. I, V6840 - V6889 (50) Mk. I, V6913 - V6962 (50) Mk. I, V6979 - V7028

 

 aircraft 'X' (note x under nose as well)

I'd think late autumn (note bare trees in background)and wrapped up ground crew, but before the sky spinner/band and port black wing in November 1940.

The position of the underwing roundels look further out than I'd expext, and the aircraft is fitted with a camera gun.

 

a look at the this, and what is visible of the squadron code makes me wonder of this 401 sq 'YO' ?

 

 

 

anyway,  hope someone can fill in some more information on this.

cheers

T

Edited August 22, 2017 by Troy Smith
change thread heading

[johnd]

There's a mention of V6609 (YO-X) on this page

 

John. 

[ben_m]

Doing a reverse google images search (right click- 'search google for image' in Chrome), I found another Pin on Pinterest with the same image, and this description:

 

"Hurricane Mk I YO-X was delivered to No 1 Squadron RCAF on 30 August 1940 as as an attrition replacement, being the last of 4 Hawker fighters to arrive at RAF Northolt for the unit during the final week of the month. Parked at readiness, with F/O Carl E Briese (left) and F/O Thomas B Little showing up front, the aircraft remained on the flight line until shot up by enemy fighters east of Gravesend on the afternoon of 17 September, with the former Canadian pilot bellying at High Halstow."

From: https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/374361787756323608/

 

Pinterest has to be the most frustrating thing for web searching for images. A huge number of search results are from Pinterest. Either it is asking you to sign up, or it is incomprehensible what the original source of the image was, and if it is still available somewhere else. Drives me mad! These images are like echoes of interesting conversations that keep repeating, and you never know where the real conversation is taking place. And thats before you realise that there are loads of sites mirroring the Pinterest content, making further duplicates of the already re-posted images....

[ben_m]

Interesting info if you google this aircraft.

 

From John's link, this aircraft was used by Bev Christmas when he scored three victories http://www.cieldegloire.com/003_christmas_b_e.php

 

The photo is reproduced in this book, with a legend that is slightly different (says the incident on 17th Sept was not the end of the aircraft's service, as it was repaired):

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Bf1yCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA49&lpg=PA49&dq=hurricane+V6609&source=bl&ots=V8aUpHXBJ6&sig=01JWVtDkl0zU-R7A0Ed3tz2UJDQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi9pNKa6-jVAhXCKlAKHdudCMcQ6AEILzAB#v=onepage&q=hurricane V6609&f=false

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Ben_m ... I cant agree more. Pinterest is my least favorite option but once in a great while it actually spits out a golden nugget of a photo. 

[JackG]

Another confirmation of  YO*X being V6609 , "used by No. 401 (F) Squadron, RCAF, coded "YO*X".  With B Flight at Castledown from November 1940. "

http://www.rwrwalker.ca/RAF_owned_w9999.html

 

regards,

Jack

 

[tango98]

V6609 was coded YO-X and as the citation notes she was a replacement. On 17 Sept she was f/landed near Gravesend after suffering combat damage to her oil system. F/O Briese was uninjured. V6609 was recovered and repaired. 

FWIW, No.1 RCAF did not become 401 RCAF until March 1941.

As I've got chapter and verse on No.1's Hurricanes at home, I can check and see if V6609 returned to the squadron after repair but I doubt that she did.

 

Cheers

Dave

[Troy Smith]

 

thanks all,  some interesting images of No.1 Sq RCAF out there as well, which are worth posting up for some details

 

V7111,  interesting example of what must be one of the earliest fitted 'bullet' Rotol props,  note on plane in background as well, and what look like unit done tail flash,  the white stripe look off vertical, but they maybe a just an illusion?

 

 

 

another (?) with a 'bullet' Rotol

Quote

S/L E.A. McNab, Commanding Officer, with a Hawker Hurricane I aircraft of No.1 (F) Squadron, RCAF. Northolt, England. September 12th, 1940. (Dept. of National Defence / Library and Archives Canada / e005176200)

 

not seen any of these fitted earlier,  though @tango98 maybe able to shed some info on this.

 

cheers

T

Edited August 22, 2017 by Troy Smith
fix pic

[tango98]

Troy,

When I get back to look at my files I'll see what further info I can dig up.

Also note that there is no oil ring fitted to the cowling front.

 

Cheers

Dave

Edited August 22, 2017 by tango98

[Troy Smith]

cheers Dave

 

There was another thread discussing some 1 sq RCAF Hurricane before.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234983260-hurricane-mk1-l1973/&

 

With these images

screen grab 

YO-G is L1973,  interesting a fabric  winged Hurricane which was rewinged with metal wings (see linked thread for discussion and film clip)

 

also

L1851

Quote

L1851 was one of a few fabric wing Hurricanes on strength with 1 (RCAF) Squadron. On August 18, 1940, the day after the Squadron became operational, Flight Lieutenant V. B.Corbett ran into a fuel browser with YO-U during a scramble at 14:30 hours at RAF Hornchurch. The results of the collision are illustrated in the photo above. (Photo

courtesy of the Canada Department of National Defence/Library and Archives of Canada.)

 

the discussion suggests this is also rewinged,  as it looks as if L1851 has been overhauled,  quite possibly with new fuselage fabric....why?

repainted serial in standard 8 inch characters but non standard position.

 

L**** and N**** serials as factory applied were 6 inch high,   Very distinctive once you know what too look out  for.

eg Sammy Allard's N2319

 

L1940 pre war (Kenley  late spring 1939 I think)

Hurricane by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

Cheers

T

 

 

Edited August 23, 2017 by Troy Smith
tidying up, corrections

[Troy Smith]

thought  this  maybe  a good  place to  collate some pics.

A image search turned up this on Flickr

RCAF 401 Squadron Hurricane mishap. by ggpop, on Flickr

 

Looks to be  P3757

edit

http://www.americanairmuseum.com/aircraft/19679

Quote

 

 

Quote

F/O Hartland de Montarville Molson (yes of the the Molson Brewery family) [Montreal, Quebec], stands beside his damaged Hawker Hurricane Mk I P3757 YO-G. He was slightly injured when landing his aircraft at RAF Station Hornchurch, Essex after flying a sortie from there on the 18th of August, 1940.

 

 

 

Later the squadron got Hurricane Mk.IIb

famous shot, Z365*  (2?)   I've seen clearer versions in a book IIRC.

 

 

of note is the consistent style of code letter application,  slimmer than often seen, but look to be 36 inch  high, the fuselage roundel in 35 inch for comparison.

 

note sure if a Mk.I or  Mk.II

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2017 by Troy Smith
add details and pics

[Scooby]

Great thread! Great images!

[Paul J]

Very Interesting thread this.  Noted in pic up a few posts with pic of YO-G and another (YO-E)in background with different spinners...also the Beaufighter and Blenheim I. And a different YO-G with serial P3757.

[tarlucan]

There seems to be a mix of Sky and MS Grey codes used. Was this specific to RCAF squadrons or was this an early/late issue with MS grey finally used as was the case for other B of B Hurricane squadrons?

[Troy Smith]

4 hours ago, Paul J said:

Very Interesting thread this.  Noted in pic up a few posts with pic of YO-G and another (YO-E)in background with different spinners...also the Beaufighter and Blenheim I. And a different YO-G with serial P3757.

 

Hi Paul

Glad it's  of interest  

the Blenheims and  Beaufighters were discussed here BTW

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234983737-bob-beaufighter-and-blenhiem-video-screen-grab/

 

2 hours ago, tarlucan said:

There seems to be a mix of Sky and MS Grey codes used. Was this specific to RCAF squadrons or was this an early/late issue with MS grey finally used as was the case for other B of B Hurricane squadrons?

 

I think it's just varying photos,  and  the  codes  are  all Medium Sea  Grey.  

[tango98]

Troy et al,

YO-N was Z3658 and the photo was taken on 24 July 1941.

Found no mention of the incident involving YO-G in my files yet although the B of B Then & Now states that it occurred on18 August (Squadron declared operational on 17 August) and that the pilot was P/O Goodman; for my money, I'd go with the PAC caption.

The photo of YO-J was taken in mid-1941 and is most likely a Mk II as the squadron had re-equipped with Mk IIs during the period of the last week of April and the first week of May.

Another Mk II at this time was YO-K, V6671.

One interesting Hurricane on No 1 RCAF's strength during the B of B was the RCAF serialled 323 which, for a period carried the individual letter 'D'. Having been delayed from being shipped to the UK with the squadron's other Hurricanes she arrived either during or after the squadron was re-equipped with aircraft from RAF stocks. Whether she was 'upgraded' or not is not clear but she was still in service with No 1 RCAF on 5 October when, while being flown by F/Lt Pitcher was involved in the downing of a Bf 109.

IMHO, I would think that either while being repaired by CCF prior to being shipped or shortly after arrival in the UK, she was very likely fitted with stressed skin wings - it would be nice to dig up a photo!

 

Cheers

Dave

[TBC]

I'll toss one in - a screen shot. I've gone over the movie again and again as YO-Z taxis by and I still can't make out the serial number completely. I'm unable to clean up the image enough to be helpful either.

 

[Troy Smith]

51 minutes ago, TBC said:

I'll toss one in - a screen shot. I've gone over the movie again and again as YO-Z taxis by and I still can't make out the serial number completely. I'm unable to clean up the image enough to be helpful either.

 

 

neat addition, looks to end "148"?

 

I suspect this is a Mk.I,  mostly as it has the  earlier style fin flash,  as does YO-J,  while YO-N has the  standard factory 24 inch wide x 27  inch high flash.

V7111 would most likely  have  had  the factory flash,  but look like it had  an in-field repaint? 

 

I'm theorising here,  anyone have a Mk.II with the mid 1940 style fin ?

 

This is a an early Mk. IIA in factory finish AFAIK for comparison.

 

cheers

T

[tango98]

1 hour ago, TBC said:

I'll toss one in - a screen shot. I've gone over the movie again and again as YO-Z taxis by

Well, for sure she's not V6670 'Z' as she was lost in September 1940 but I do tend to agree with Troy (after a lot of fiddling around in photo programmes) that a '1'' and a '4' form part of the serial with, IMHO, the third digit being either '6' or '8' and again,IMHO, she was most likely a Mk II in the 'Z' serial range.

At the moment I'm only having quick looks through my files and photos; I'll have more time later this week so will have a more thorough check then.

 

Cheers

Dave

[tango98]

33 minutes ago, tango98 said:

I do tend to agree with Troy (after a lot of fiddling around in photo programmes) that a '1'' and a '4' form part of the serial with, IMHO, the third digit being either '6' or '8' and again,IMHO, she was most likely a Mk II in the 'Z' serial range.

I was wrong with the serial for YO-Z; she was P3145 from the first Gloster production batch.

 

Cheers

Dave

[Biggu]

YO*N was a Mk IIb and was flown by P/O Alvin E.Harley from the base at Digby Lincs. The 'DO' on the cockpit is for his lovely wife Dorothy, his Spitfire MkVb had "DO II" on the cockpit

[tango98]

There are some PAC photos of Canadian PM Mackenzie King with Harley and YO-N along with one of Mackenzie King sitting in the cockpit of a Hurricane.

I'm not certain of the date although I believe it was sometime during 1941 but I stand to be corrected on that.

 

Cheers

Dave

[Biggu]

I would have to dig into my collection and re-read his memoir, and check some of the letters he sent me, we were VERY good friends, and corresponded a lot over the years.....  I could also try to check the ORB....

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

On 8/22/2017 at 6:50 AM, Troy Smith said:

 

 

Hello Troy sorry to bother you, I'm working on another Mk.I and have opted to do a 401 squadron plane. In this photo whats your best guess for the spinner color ?

     When did sky bands and yellow leading edges come into effect ? Was it with the change from TLS to DFS ? Or did it predate the changeover ? Many thanks in advance for your assistance and your expert knowledge. 

 

Dennis

[Troy Smith]

Just now, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

In this photo whats your best guess for the spinner color ?

black

Just now, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

     When did sky bands and yellow leading edges come into effect ? Was it with the change from TLS to DFS ?

with the change from TLS to DFS, Aug 41 IIRC

I'll link this in here again, as always handy for folks

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Modeling-References/Camoflage-Markings

all of them scanned...

Just now, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

 

Or did it predate the changeover ? Many thanks in advance for your assistance and your expert knowledge. 

expert... yeah right.... I stand on the shoulders of giants,  mostly it's just applying other folks knowledge... though I did ingrain much of this age 14-15-16 when I should have been, maybe doing stuff at school....  instead I was laying the ground work for all the stuff I post here!

I still have not got around to actually doing some proper research at Hendon and the IWM....

 

cheers

T