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A Pair of Emil's +++COMPLETED+++


BIG X

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I'm sat round at the minute - twiddling my thumbs and waiting on stuff drying.  So - to pass the time I've been doing a bit of research on Walter and Egon - the real stars of our show.

 

I've found a couple of pictures - here is Walter...

 

walter_kienitz.jpg

 

...Walter Kienitz that is - and a good looking chap he is it has to be said.

 

From what I can understand his rank was HAUPTMANN at the time - but his position was GRUPPENKOMMANDEUR.  I have to say I find all things to do with Luftwaffe chains of command very confusing - let alone their STAFFEL / GRUPPE / GESCHWADER set up thingy.  I have downloaded several diagrams of the Luftwaffe chain of command - and I still don't get it. :lol:  As far as I understand what I'm doing...

...his aircraft - at the time I am doing it - MAY / JUNE - 1940 - shows the GRUPPENKOMMANDEUR insignia of << + l.  It would be interesting to know why it was named FORTUNA though and whether he flew it in the Battle of Britain.  I have found some leads to Walter - but it all appears to be in German - and if I'm honest - I struggle with English - so foreign languages are a step way too far for me.

 

As for Egon - Egon Troha - pictured on the wing of GRACE - here's another shot...

 

egon.jpg

 

...a rather more down to earth looking chap.

 

His position I believe was GRUPPENADJUTANT with his flight insignia being < + l and his rank was leutnant at this point.  Again I would love to know where the name GRACE comes from and again - if he flew this in the BoB.

 

If any of you Luftwaffe 'experten' out there can shed more light on these boys it would be very interesting.

 

...thumbs still twiddling...  I'm off to look at the kit decals - the Airfix generic set for any 109e has literally dozens of tiny decals that you can barely see - let alone read what they say.

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...it's like watching paint dry...  Nothing worth taking a picture of on the build itself - but whilst I'm sat here like a lemon I have been looking at the decals with a VERY BIG magnifying glass.  Can anyone tell me where these will go EXACTLY...

 

tail.jpg

 

The airfix instructions show it on the tail 'near' the front end of the horizontal stabilizers - another stencil sheet show this...

 

numbers_side.jpg

 

...a similar - but more precise position - does anyone have a clue what it is for???  It looks like some sort of +/- setting - but looking around the internet I can't seem to find it on any 'real' aircraft???

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...and whilst we are on the subject of decals - those pesky numbers that run 2 to 8 up the bottom of the left hand side of the fuselage - does anyone seriously put them on???

 

I've just measured them...

 

number_4.jpg

 

...that's right - 0.2mm - about a quarter of the size of the decal number that points you to it :doh:  I didn't use them on the last build - now I remember why.

Hands up if you have applied them at 1/48 - and if so - how on earth did you manage it???

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I've just finished decalling a 109 F (mould from 1978!!) and it had those little stencils - the airfix instructions showed them in the same place as your photo.  As to what they are though.....

 

If you think the frame numbers are small try getting the decal for the bottom of the mast on ;)

 

Edited by Mike
Removing large photo-quote - no need to quote every time you reply, as it just chews through bandwidth and makes the threads confusing.
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44 minutes ago, Lawzer said:

I've just finished decalling a 109 F (mould from 1978!!) and it had those little stencils - the airfix instructions showed them in the same place as your photo.  As to what they are though.....

 

If you think the frame numbers are small try getting the decal for the bottom of the mast on ;)

 

I'VE JUST FOUND THEM - WOW!!! - I don't think you'd see them on a black mast ;)

 

should the mast be something other than black then???

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Big X ... i actually did put the little #'s on my last 109E Battle of Britain build. Sad to say that was 15 years ago. I still have the model though I've had to repair a broken landing gear once due to my sausage fingers dropping it. It required loads of patience. And i no longer do the numbers. I was competing at the time and have since walked away from competition.

     I walked away for two reasons one it lead me to a burnout and stop building for 10 years. Two is sadly the regional IPMS clubs in the Great lakes region of America tend to be somewhat corrupt. I found only members from the local chapter to be the only winners at competitions. This despite having an open invite to all modelers. So it is also why i quit the IPMS. 

    

    Lawzer ... the numbers are frame references for maintenance purposes. The little oddball thing in front of the Horizontal Stabs is for Angle of attack i believe on the Messerschmitt early 109's these were adjustable. As the 109 got the stronger stabs in the F, G, & K   They didnt need the supports and were more rigid. But in the early models the could torque and had to be Readjusted to a specific angle. Thus the little marking.

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle
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4 hours ago, BIG X said:

From what I can understand his rank was HAUPTMANN at the time - but his position was GRUPPENKOMMANDEUR.  I have to say I find all things to do with Luftwaffe chains of command very confusing - let alone their STAFFEL / GRUPPE / GESCHWADER set up thingy.  I have downloaded several diagrams of the Luftwaffe chain of command - and I still don't get it.

 

Well, I'm no experte, but your first sentence explains it perfectly, in my view. Hauptmann is a rank. Gruppenkommandeur is a position, or role (though I believe Hauptmann is a relatively junior rank to be commander of a gruppe).

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25 minutes ago, amblypygid said:

 

Well, I'm no experte, but your first sentence explains it perfectly, in my view. Hauptmann is a rank. Gruppenkommandeur is a position, or role (though I believe Hauptmann is a relatively junior rank to be commander of a gruppe).

That's what I was kind of thinking.

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1 hour ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Big X ... i actually did put the little #'s on my last 109E Battle of Britain build. Sad to say that was 15 years ago. I still have the model though I've had to repair a broken landing gear once due to my sausage fingers dropping it. It required loads of patience. And i no longer do the numbers. I was competing at the time and have since walked away from competition.

     I walked away for two reasons one it lead me to a burnout and stop building for 10 years. Two is sadly the regional IPMS clubs in the Great lakes region of America tend to be somewhat corrupt. I found only members from the local chapter to be the only winners at competitions. This despite having an open invite to all modelers. So it is also why i quit the IPMS. 

    

    Lawzer ... the numbers are frame references for maintenance purposes. The little oddball thing in front of the Horizontal Stabs is for Angle of attack i believe on the Messerschmitt early 109's these were adjustable. As the 109 got the stronger stabs in the F, G, & K   They didnt need the supports and were more rigid. But in the early models the could torque and had to be Readjusted to a specific angle. Thus the little marking.

...that's why Britmodeller is my 'model club' of choice :thumbsup: no cronyism here - just jolly decent folk :D

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17 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Big X he was probably given the position because of losses, or he showed exceptional talent or leadership skills.

From the little I can find I think it was some of both - he went on to be an 'experten' - according to my '109 ACES' book - must have been quite a guy - and I think he survived the war - but Pinterest keeps getting on the way of real information...

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Well todays progress has been slightly slower than yesterdays and I now see the downsides of a double build - the 'boring bits' take twice as long :doh:

Anyway - here we go with todays work...

 

The wings are on and that spine seam that SHOULD BE THERE - has gone...

 

IMG_2404.jpg

 

The lower cowling is in place and the machine guns have been added into the top cowling and that is on too...

 

IMG_2405.jpg

 

As I always bend or snap the rear part of the aerial - I have lopped them off and replaced them with sewing pins...

 

IMG_2407.jpg

 

...don't panic - they get chopped down :lol:

 

IMG_2409.jpg

 

Another downside to the double build method is - I had trouble getting the right wing flush to the fuselage - ON BOTH OF THEM - something that didn't happen on the last one.

So this goes to prove that on a double build - if you do something wrong - the chances are you do it twice :doh:

 

I'm off for a night time session now - no need to get up early - and I'd like to get some more progress before the day is done - catch you later maybe...

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The nosecones are 'getting there' - a little more sanding down and they should be good to go...

 

IMG_2410.jpg

 

...and I've masked off the cockpits...

 

IMG_2413.jpg

 

IMG_2414.jpg

 

for whatever reason these masks don't seem as 'sticky' as the last lot I used - anyway on with getting them on the aircraft...

 

IMG_2415.jpg

 

IMG_2416.jpg

 

OK - I've used PVA for the canopies - so I better leave things overnight before I attempt anything else - more fun tomorrow...

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4 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Big x what do you use to mask the canopies ? Im used to the yellow/cream colored vinyl masks ? Never saw black ones before. 

 

I think those are montex masks?

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7 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Big x what do you use to mask the canopies ? Im used to the yellow/cream colored vinyl masks ? Never saw black ones before. 

Lawzer is right - Montex masks :clap2:

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2 minutes ago, BIG X said:

Lawzer is right - Montex masks :clap2:

Only know 'cause you told me ;)

 

You'll be finished these 2 before the week is out at this rate!

 

I like the idea of the sewing pins - do you drill out a hole for them?

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27 minutes ago, Lawzer said:

Only know 'cause you told me ;)

 

You'll be finished these 2 before the week is out at this rate!

 

I like the idea of the sewing pins - do you drill out a hole for them?

...yeh - a bit tricky - but once their in they're 'bullet proof' against my sausage fingers and poor eyesight.

 

I actually do hope to be finished by weekend - normally I only get 5 minutes here and 10 minutes there - but being off work is allowing me to crack on.  A double build is turning into a bit of a weird thing - some things speed along as you 'do it' and then simply 'do it again'.  Other bits are slower as you are 'correcting' and then have to 'correct again'.  The painting should be faster - as less time will be spent on colour changes and cleaning - but I'm not looking forward to masking - I hate that and I've got double the work.

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4 minutes ago, BIG X said:

...yeh - a bit tricky - but once their in they're 'bullet proof' against my sausage fingers and poor eyesight.

 

I actually do hope to be finished by weekend - normally I only get 5 minutes here and 10 minutes there - but being off work is allowing me to crack on.  A double build is turning into a bit of a weird thing - some things speed along as you 'do it' and then simply 'do it again'.  Other bits are slower as you are 'correcting' and then have to 'correct again'.  The painting should be faster - as less time will be spent on colour changes and cleaning - but I'm not looking forward to masking - I hate that and I've got double the work.

I like your logic! ;)

 

From the first 2 pics looks like they are both pretty much the same scheme apart from the spinner?  

 

As for the joy of masking..... :( 

 

I've seen painting masks (montex I think) - anyone ever tried them?

 

 

 

 

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I did try painting mask for a Hurricane a while back - but Hurricanes and Spits seem to look better with worms - to blur the edges - it just looked wrong...

 

For these Luftwaffe schemes I think just using masking tape is good enough for the top scheme.  It's masking off all that hellblau underneath and all up the sides that is a killer.

 

DEEP JOY :)

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Several asides on the background to Walter and Egon, none of which probably answer the questions you posed about why the a/c had the names they did or whether either pilot flew those a/c during the BoB. It does appear that III Gruppe / JG 3 a/c often had the names of wives/girlfriends applied somewhere or other.

Walter was Gruppenkommandeur of III Gruppe / JG 3 with the Luftwaffe rank of Hauptmann (roughly equivalent to the RAF Flight Lieutenant). He took over III Gruppe in May 1940 and was replaced by Walter Balthasar on 1 Sept 1940. He would have led the Staff Flight of III Gruppe which would normally be 3-4 a/c comprising G/Kommandeur, G/Adjutant. G/Technical Officer and possibly ANOther. I can't find any history of his exploits over this period and doesn't show up at all in the Luftwaffe Claims list that I have. Like you, I can't make sense of his whereabouts/history. During the latter part of August, Goering was a bit peeved with many of the fighter commanders since they had failed to be aggressive enough to neutralise RAF Fighter Command, so he replaced the bulk of the commanders with younger and more aggressive commanders. I'm assuming that perhaps Walter Kienitz may have been one of the less aggressive ones on the basis that I can't find any record of him making any claims during his tenure as Gruppen Kommandeur of III Gruppe. Walter Balthasar was a completely different animal. It's also possible that Kienitz was killed or injured, but I can't find any reference to this.

Egon Troha is a bit easier in some ways since he does appear in the claims list and he was shot down over Sheperdswell on 29 Oct. He's variously allotted 5 or 6 claims in the official lists, 3 before the end of August and 2 more (at least) after this. When he was shot down, he apparently wasn't flying his normal a/c (which may or may not have neen the same one you are modelling). The one he was shot down in was normally flown by Lt Franz Achleiter and all the decorations to that a/c were his rather than Troha's, including the name "Erika" painted in white next to the III Gruppe double headed battleaxe emblem. Frustratingly, this doesn't help track down the history of "Grace" or answer whether it was still operating during this part of the BoB. When Troha was shot down, he was StaffelKapitan of the 9th Staffel (III Gruppe comprised 7/8/9 Staffels). While he was Gruppe Adjutant of III Gruppe at the time your decals were applicable, the claims list shows him attached to all 3 of the Staffels in III Gruppe. By October 1940, he'd been promoted from Leutnant (Pilot Officer) to Oberleutnant (Flying Officer).

All a bit irrelevant I guess but I took your post as a bit of a challenge. In any case, the build looks like it's going well and I'll keep track of it to see howzit going. You may find others out there with more interesting and relevant background.

All the best - Paul

Edited by Pauls9cb
Bad grammar
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Cheers Paul - great info - I love a good back story and pilots are always as interesting as aircraft to me.  If anyone has any more info - please feel free to chip in.

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...I've done it again folks - I've used the wrong canopies again - TWICE!!!

 

e-3_e-10.jpg

 

 

HAD72149-Me-Bf-109-E1-3-4-Kieki-Grace-Fo

 

 

I'm supposed to be doing E4's - not E3's :doh:

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