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Best 1/48 f4u-1 kit


Mike Esposito

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Hello Mike ... My vote goes with Tamiya its an easy build. Ive done 3 of them. The hobby boss kits in my opinion arent worth the money. I'd rather build the old Arii/Otaki kits before hobbyboss. The old Arii kits need a better engine and cockpit but they were better in my opinion. Since the Mid 80's ive built about a dozen of them. I would still do so if they were readily available. I've seen hobby boss's kits lets just say im not a fan. I've followed a current WIP about an RN Corsair on this site, the modelers work is excellent no argument there. But from what im seeing the kit currently listed for $40 + on some online listings is almost twice the cost of a Tamiya. So again isn't worth the cost. I've a special connection to Corsairs if you hadn't figured out by my screen name. Of course you would need to do some modifying on an Arii kit to get a birdcage but its not impossible. And i presume you are talking 1/48th but i assume the problems are similar in the 1/72nd just more obvious as its harder to mold some details in the smaller scale. So you may get parts combined in the smalker scale. 

 

Dennis 

 

P.S. - if i can help with information i would be glad to do so.

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle
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6 hours ago, Mike Esposito said:

I've got it narrowed down to the old Tamiya birdcage kit or the Hobby boss kit. 

 

I heard of shape issues with the hobby boss later versions f4u-4 ect, but nothing regarding the f4u-1 birdcage versions

 

Any opinions would be welcome

 

Thanks

 

Hi Mike

 

Given I've never seen anyone say anything bad about the Tamiya kit,  I'd go Tamiya.   As Dennis notes, it's  also cheaper in the USA than the HB . (UK too as plenty available second hand)

 

The Otaki/Arri is very good for it's era,  but it's not birdcage,  and unless you get one super cheap,  adding new bit  makes it not a particularly economic proposition.IIRC someone like War Eagle did a birdcage conversion for the Otaki kit.

 

if you don't  have them,  @Dana Bell recent Corsair books are really worth getting,   only the -1 so far...

http://www.hyperscale.com/2014/reviews/books/f4u1vol1bellbookreviewse_1.htm

http://www.hyperscale.com/2015/reviews/books/f4u1vol2bellbookreviewse_1.htm

 

As an aside, the only version Hobby Boss do that is of use from what I can see IS the F4U-4.

 

their later versions,  the -5,AU-1 and -7 all still have the fabric wing parts,  which should be metal,   but the HB -4 matches the Tamiya -1 very well in main shapes.

It has some glitches,  bu far less than the 'chi-com' naysayers would have you believe. 

 

Everyone damns the Academy -4,  as it got a too wide spine,but then goes the Hase (Ex Mania tool) scrubs up  well,  but  spine apart,  the Academy  is basically cloned off the old Hase/Mania kit,   and the fuselage (assuming Tamiya is right)  has more issues than usually reported,deeper, so wing lower,  and kinda "square",  while the Corsair is 'egg shaped'

 

HTH

T


 

 

 

   

 

 

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5 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Hello Mike ... My vote goes with Tamiya its an easy build. Ive done 3 of them. The hobby boss kits in my opinion arent worth the money. I'd rather build the old Arii/Otaki kits before hobbyboss. The old Arii kits need a better engine and cockpit but they were better in my opinion. Since the Mid 80's ive built about a dozen of them. I would still do so if they were readily available. I've seen hobby boss's kits lets just say im not a fan. I've followed a current WIP about an RN Corsair on this site, the modelers work is excellent no argument there. But from what im seeing the kit currently listed for $40 + on some online listings is almost twice the cost of a Tamiya. So again isn't worth the cost. I've a special connection to Corsairs if you hadn't figured out by my screen name. Of course you would need to do some modifying on an Arii kit to get a birdcage but its not impossible. And i presume you are talking 1/48th but i assume the problems are similar in the 1/72nd just more obvious as its harder to mold some details in the smaller scale. So you may get parts combined in the smalker scale. 

 

Dennis 

 

P.S. - if i can help with information i would be glad to do so.

Hi Dennis. Can you be specific on why you don't like the hobby boss kit. Are you referring to accuracy?

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Sure mike,

    Its a little of both. I'll start by asking you what are the plans for the kit. Personal build ? professional build ? Contest build ? That would also influence my decision when picking a kit. 

     To start I believe the cost is about twice what it should be. My reasons are that Ive looked at Cybermodeler. Also i have read several reviews. Sadly i can't post photos here or i would bring up examples. But the inside of the early model kits from hobbyboss for sure have a channel near the tail wheel mount that is Radiused so it looks like the tail wheel is made to function. Much like the toy like models from the 1950's & 60's. Two i point out the previously mentioned shape. As Tony pointed out the corsair has a unique shape from front to back. The plane starts out in a hose shape near the cowling. Thus the nick name "old hose nose." It transitions to a flattened egg shape in the area of the cockpit. This gradually gets smaller at each frame as you move rearward to the tail. Hobbyboss from what i read and have seen left the whole plane in an egg shape. Much less pronounced but still there. Good if you want a 5, 7, or an AU-1. Not good for the early types. Three is the fore mentioned fabric surfaces on the later models. There are adequate for the early types but i feel they are over done. I'd give them a coat of Mr. Surfacer/Tamiya surfacer to lessen the valleys. Four I've seen and read that the Vertical Stabilizer is wrong on the hobbyboss as its centered on the thrustline of the plane. In real life its slightly offset to counter the torque from the P&W R-2800. As for getting the birdcage i agree you are limited to the two choices. But it can be scratched if you really wanted to go that route. 

     Now for Tamiya's offering. Its not perfect but i feel they got the shape a bit better. The nose is closer to the hose nose. There is some small inaccuracies as Troy already mentioned. But i feel the positives are in Tamiya's favor. They outweigh the negatives. The kit is a bit older but that shouldn't count against it. Two its definitely cheaper. The fabric on the control surfaces looks a bit more realistic to my eye. The engine in Tamiya's kit is good from the front. Though if youre planning on exposing it, id say replace it. The 3 kits I've built i've not had a complaint with. You do have a wingfold option with both kits, if inclined to go that route. But not many birdcages save the nightfighters and stateside trainers really folded the wings. With the tamiya The only major downfall to the kits is they only cover the ww2 versions. 

    My recommendation is take the $40 + you might spend on the hobbyboss and buy the tamiya then take the difference and buy a set of belts from eduard and either a new engine, canopy mask, or a decal set for the plane. And you would about break even. The extra detail wouldnt hurt but thats a personal choice. Hope this helps. 

 

Dennis

 

P.S. - if you are looking for a specific plane/pilot you must know that they flew the birdcage type. But i will gladly help if i can. 

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On 8/15/2017 at 11:06 PM, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Sure mike,

    Its a little of both. I'll start by asking you what are the plans for the kit. Personal build ? professional build ? Contest build ? That would also influence my decision when picking a kit. 

     To start I believe the cost is about twice what it should be. My reasons are that Ive looked at Cybermodeler. Also i have read several reviews. Sadly i can't post photos here or i would bring up examples. But the inside of the early model kits from hobbyboss for sure have a channel near the tail wheel mount that is Radiused so it looks like the tail wheel is made to function. Much like the toy like models from the 1950's & 60's. Two i point out the previously mentioned shape. As Tony pointed out the corsair has a unique shape from front to back. The plane starts out in a hose shape near the cowling. Thus the nick name "old hose nose." It transitions to a flattened egg shape in the area of the cockpit. This gradually gets smaller at each frame as you move rearward to the tail. Hobbyboss from what i read and have seen left the whole plane in an egg shape. Much less pronounced but still there. Good if you want a 5, 7, or an AU-1. Not good for the early types. Three is the fore mentioned fabric surfaces on the later models. There are adequate for the early types but i feel they are over done. I'd give them a coat of Mr. Surfacer/Tamiya surfacer to lessen the valleys. Four I've seen and read that the Vertical Stabilizer is wrong on the hobbyboss as its centered on the thrustline of the plane. In real life its slightly offset to counter the torque from the P&W R-2800. As for getting the birdcage i agree you are limited to the two choices. But it can be scratched if you really wanted to go that route. 

     Now for Tamiya's offering. Its not perfect but i feel they got the shape a bit better. The nose is closer to the hose nose. There is some small inaccuracies as Troy already mentioned. But i feel the positives are in Tamiya's favor. They outweigh the negatives. The kit is a bit older but that shouldn't count against it. Two its definitely cheaper. The fabric on the control surfaces looks a bit more realistic to my eye. The engine in Tamiya's kit is good from the front. Though if youre planning on exposing it, id say replace it. The 3 kits I've built i've not had a complaint with. You do have a wingfold option with both kits, if inclined to go that route. But not many birdcages save the nightfighters and stateside trainers really folded the wings. With the tamiya The only major downfall to the kits is they only cover the ww2 versions. 

    My recommendation is take the $40 + you might spend on the hobbyboss and buy the tamiya then take the difference and buy a set of belts from eduard and either a new engine, canopy mask, or a decal set for the plane. And you would about break even. The extra detail wouldnt hurt but thats a personal choice. Hope this helps. 

 

Dennis

 

P.S. - if you are looking for a specific plane/pilot you must know that they flew the birdcage type. But i will gladly help if i can. 

Now I am changing my mind...i want to do a Pappy Boyington aircraft. I don't think Greg flew the 1. 1a?

 

Now gotta find decals..:sad:

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57 minutes ago, Mike Esposito said:

Now I am changing my mind...i want to do a Pappy Boyington aircraft. I don't think Greg flew the 1. 1a?

 

Now gotta find decals..:sad:

You might want to check out this link:

http://acepilots.com/usmc_boyington3.html

 

According to the information there, nobody in FMC-214 had his own personal plane, including Boyington, and the squadron certainly still had at least some birdcage F4U-1s in service when they started combat in Fall 1943. It's apparently true that all the Corsairs featured in photos with Boyington were what are commonly called F4U-1As (never an official USN designation) with blown canopies, but it's almost certain he would have flown birdcages at least sometimes.

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I saw a color or colorized  photo this morning on a  website that showed Boyington in the cockpit of a birdcage Corsair, but have no idea what the markings or BuNo were. Maybe doing a search for Greg Boyington birdcage F4U-1 might bear trying. I didn't save the photo, sorry!

Mike

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Mike, 

     Greg Boyington was a personal hero to me. So i say go ahead and do a corsair in whichever markings you choose. One note about Boyington not listed in the web connection above

2 hours ago, Seawinder said:

You might want to check out this link:

http://acepilots.com/usmc_boyington3.html

 

Gregory Boyington was a good pilot and not always the Best Marine. He believed his Men came before the "Book" the US Navy Reg's. The webpage also fails to point out that Boyington very often would take one of the planes that were gigged "thumb down" by the plane captain. He did this so one of "his boys wouldnt fly in an inferior aircraft". He chose to put his pilots in the safest equipment available. And would take the best of the bad planes for himself.

     He doesn't often get the credit he deserves. Mostly due to the 1970's tv show "Black sheep squadron". He only backed the tv program because sadly he was an alcoholic desperate for $. On a sad note Gregory Boyington's legacy has been dismantled over the last 20 years. The USMC has removed 4 of the 6 avg kills. They claim that both Chinese records and Witnesses state that the 4 kills couldn't be proven. Sadly there is this note from 2006. I wrote a very long poignant letter to both the USMC and the Student Senate at University of Washington. I was hoping to change there minds but to no available. 

image: http://mobile.wnd.com/images2/boyington.jpg

boyington.jpg
Lt. Col. Gregory “Pappy” Boyington during World War II (Photo: National Archives)

The University of Washington’s student senate rejected a memorial for alumnus Gregory “Pappy” Boyington of “Black Sheep Squadron” fame amid concerns a military hero who shot down enemy planes was not the right kind of person to represent the school.


Read more at http://mobile.wnd.com/2006/02/34799/#cR327Pe

 

Add to that the fact of the Gregory "pappy" Boyington Museum in Couer D'elene Idaho was shuttered in 2016. Please look up the youtube video about it. Sorry i may have miss spelled the city name. So i say make your corsair use any model its your choice he did fly birdcages as well as some -1a's like the whole of my entry he and his boys flew whatever was available. I know that VMF-214, 215, & 222 all shared airstrips at Munda and Vella La Vella at different times so they all can be used without to much issue about being accurate. 

 

Dennis

 


 

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11 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

that showed Boyington in the cockpit of a birdcage Corsair

72modeler ... I believe that might be aircraft #883 or #777. I've seen those photo's over the years. The famous photo of Lulubelle #86 was a staged photo for the press. 

 

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Mike E and Corsairfixfouruncle,

 

Found a couple of birdcage Corsair photos with Boyington aboard.

 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/805581452065844301/

 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/805581452065832169/

 

RIP, Pappy

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/576320083534744954/

 

I have also seen profiles and a photo of Pappy in birdcage Corsairs with 740 and 576 on the fuselages, but no indication of their BuNo's or if he flew them or just sat in them  for the photos. Sorry- the best I could do for right now. CFFU- isn't '883' an F4U-1a with the blown hood with horizontal framing?

Mike

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Yes 883 was a blown hood -1a. I may actually have # 740 and #576 in my files. I will look when i get into my office. Ive seen photo's over the years of birdcages fitted with that blown canopy. It was very similarly kitted by Vought like North American Retro kitted P-51b's & c's. Not that its related to this conversation but the F2g's would've used P-47 D bublletop canopies had they gone into full blown production. The Prototypes used them. 

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1 hour ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

 Not that its related to this conversation but the F2g's would've used P-47 D bublletop canopies had they gone into full blown production. The Prototypes used them. 

Thank you for that very useful snippet: the canopies on my Special Hobby F2G have gone brown.  I have plenty of Squadron Signal P-47 bubbletop canopies though.

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Seahawk im not certain but the windscreens on the F2g's were fitted to work with those types. So you shouldn't have a problem. Just to be safe compare the original canopy you have though. Special hobby based there kits on a racer if im correct. so it might have a different profile. 

    Unfortunately Mike i do get somewhat emotional about the subject of Boyington. I mean no offense by anything to anyone with what i type hear on BM. So please understand its nothing personal. Now as for the original AVG contract was for every plane destroyed period. not just in air to air combat the chinese were desperate to lure the pilots any way they could. They based there decisions on USMC Standards not the Mercenary contract that was signed in good faith. Also a note if you look up 8th, 9th and 12th Air force fighter groups some also give credit for "ground kills" so its a USMC thing. They didnt like the fact it put him ahead of Joe foss. Who was a great pilot but was a by the book Marine. They didnt like the fact that a old broken down alcoholic superseded there poster boy. Its the same problem the have with "Chesty" puller. Great soldier, great mud marine , however not a by the book guy and so he never got his CMH. The Marines are awesome people all of them ! my own Brother in law was a marine. But if you don't measure up to there spit n polish imagery they second row your achievments to someone that does. I just think thats horribly sad.

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3 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Seahawk im not certain but the windscreens on the F2g's were fitted to work with those types. So you shouldn't have a problem. Just to be safe compare the original canopy you have though. Special hobby based there kits on a racer if im correct. so it might have a different profile. 

    Unfortunately Mike i do get somewhat emotional about the subject of Boyington. I mean no offense by anything to anyone with what i type hear on BM. So please understand its nothing personal. Now as for the original AVG contract was for every plane destroyed period. not just in air to air combat the chinese were desperate to lure the pilots any way they could. They based there decisions on USMC Standards not the Mercenary contract that was signed in good faith. Also a note if you look up 8th, 9th and 12th Air force fighter groups some also give credit for "ground kills" so its a USMC thing. They didnt like the fact it put him ahead of Joe foss. Who was a great pilot but was a by the book Marine. They didnt like the fact that a old broken down alcoholic superseded there poster boy. Its the same problem the have with "Chesty" puller. Great soldier, great mud marine , however not a by the book guy and so he never got his CMH. The Marines are awesome people all of them ! my own Brother in law was a marine. But if you don't measure up to there spit n polish imagery they second row your achievments to someone that does. I just think thats horribly sad.

Totally agree. I read his first book Baa baa black sheep. Anybody who can survive 20+ months in aJapaneseprison under those deplorable conditions deserves the utmost respect. 

 

Watch the documentary. It does shed light on the squadron in a very positive way, and on Greg Boyington too.

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Thanks mike... i will look at the documentary. Have you decided on a kit yet ?  are you set for decals ? Let me know if i can help on those ends i have a bunch of spare stuff for corsairs in 1/48th. Or if you need an extra set of eyes to do research im always available for a corsair. 

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5 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Yes 883 was a blown hood -1a. I may actually have # 740 and #576 in my files. I will look when i get into my office. Ive seen photo's over the years of birdcages fitted with that blown canopy. It was very similarly kitted by Vought like North American Retro kitted P-51b's & c's. Not that its related to this conversation but the F2g's would've used P-47 D bublletop canopies had they gone into full blown production. The Prototypes used them. 

CFFU,

 

What you wrote about production F2G's using P-47D bubbletop canopies might very well be true, but going back and looking at all my F2G photos that showed the w/s and canopy, it looks like none of the F2G-1/2's that were built used them. The w/s on the F2G was flat at the top, with the framework slightly trapezoidal in shape and the canopy arch was very fat and curved  with  lower frames that did not come to a point like on the P-47.  The center panel of the w/s on the P-47D/M/N was shaped like an inverted U, with the framework being parallel; the hood was a fat teardrop shape in plan view.

 

http://www.512thfightersquadron.com/images/WilliamACunninghamP-47_L3_O_at_Mourmelon-le-Grand.jpg

 

http://www.air-and-space.com/20110928 Falcon Field/_BEL7616 20110928 Falcon F2G-2 NX5577N Race 74 left side cockpit l.jpg

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72modeler Thats why i recommended to seahawk to double check before using. But thanks. As i also said the special hobby F2G kits used the racer for the basis and those canopies are different for sure. I believe and i may be wrong here but the F2G thats been restored & in a particular museum i cant recall for the moment. This one has a questionable canopy on it, as it was a derelict when it was found and they didnt have all the parts. I agree with the jist of your argument.

    I never said the windscreen was the same. Just the canopy and only for the two prototypes not for the 10 production models. So in that train of thought think about this please. I know Vought /Goodyear contacted Republic and asked for two canopies. They did this to see about feasibility as the had a design of their own on order. They would not recieve there own canopies in time for testing. Once they recieved them and test fitted this arrangement. Its very possible they liked what they saw. And proceeded to the next stage. The windscreen's on the two prototypes was most likely scrarchbuilt by good year to match the P-47. Ok to your second example photo it has the same teardrop shaped frame but the rear is cut. I know your second photo is a reno racer and has a custom canopy probably molded from a P-47. The teardrop shape kind of  verifies that. 

     Im not trying to denigrate or take away from your theories. I believe they are just as valid as my own when it comes to research. i just know what i have found in my research. Is it quite possible that we are both correct ? Like i said the prototypes not the production models. 

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8 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

72modeler Thats why i recommended to seahawk to double check before using. But thanks. As i also said the special hobby F2G kits used the racer for the basis and those canopies are different for sure. I believe and i may be wrong here but the F2G thats been restored & in a particular museum i cant recall for the moment. This one has a questionable canopy on it, as it was a derelict when it was found and they didnt have all the parts. 

Here's the Museum of Flight's F2G-1- probably the most original of all the preserved/airworthy examples- I thought I had a walkaround of it that showed the canopy better, but I haven't been able to find it, yet. Have a ton of references, photos, build and review articles on it, as it's one of my favorite airplanes. I also have a monograph on the F2G's that I will have to dig up, as I think it has very good photos of the airplane, inside and out.

 

http://www.museumofflight.org/aircraft/goodyear-f2g-1-super-corsair

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Thanks thats the one i was trying to think of. I have read the canopy on this plane is questionable ? As it ws found derelict in a very delapidated state and the only canopy found with it was from its racing days. That being said and as its the only version in as close to possible to original shape. It is a good example.

     The long/short of all this is unless we find a time machine to actually go back and look. No one ... not you not me is correct or incorrect. Its all subject to open debate. So i have no hard feelings and enjoy the debate once in awhile. 

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Mike ... ok in just a cursory search of corsairs at vella la vella & Munda i have seen corsairs from VMF's 212, 214, 215, 222, 223, & 225. I have seen side #'s 884, maybe #841 in the fields boneyard ( maybe 841 because the side is covered in a lot of dust). I have VMF-212 side #911 at VLV. I have a VMF-214 -1 taking off caption claims Boyington often flew this aircraft it has the #91 on the landing bay door. I have another photo of #891 which is a -1 converted with a -1a hood, the photo shows the rear windows underneath the -1a hoodI have a photo listed as VMF-214 side# 000 but the number is located just behind cowling ring so it may be a promotional shot.  I have Boyington posing in 1a #883. Side #883 is shown in the scrap pile at a later date and is listed as being with VMF-215. VMF-214 with #777, VMF-223 with # 590. VMF-222 with #576. VMF-225 side #435.

     From the Munda airfield in august '43 i have seen VMF-215 with side #76 (sideart is spirit of 76). So to recap i have the following photo's and aircraft from Vella LaVella in November/December '43.

VMF-212 #911

VMF-214 #'s 777, 884, 891, 000,

VMF-215 # 883, 841 at munda w'# 76

VMF-222 # 576

VMF-223 # 590

VMF-225 # 435

 

As previously established in this post and per Navy Regs. Squadrons/pilots shared aircraft so you would be safe to use any of these i believe. Now in my stash of decals i have the temains of two decal sets from the 1/48th Tamiya birdcage i have from superscale markings for other planes squadrons not related to Boyington.  Probably not really helpful but let me know. 

 

Dennis

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On 8/16/2017 at 11:50 AM, Troy Smith said:

 

Everyone damns the Academy -4,  as it got a too wide spine,but then goes the Hase (Ex Mania tool) scrubs up  well,  but  spine apart,  the Academy  is basically cloned off the old Hase/Mania kit,   and the fuselage (assuming Tamiya is right)  has more issues than usually reported,deeper, so wing lower,  and kinda "square",  while the Corsair is 'egg shaped'

 

I've seen this comment a lot of late (must be Corsair season) but something I've not seen mentioned is the woof in the Academy fuselage when viewed in profile

It appears to be bent somewhere in the middle (appears quite clearly on the box side pic) and looks almost like it has sagged. The canopy shape is wrong and highlights

the bent fuselage. I couldnt get pass this on mine and passed it on to an unsuspecting modeller.

The other Academy Corsair (reboxed Hobbycraft) isnt too bad except for the misshapen windscreen.

 

I quite like the older Hasegawa 4, purely because its fun.

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