I couldn't believe my ears

[Truro Model Builder]

I had somebody in the shop earlier who was looking for die cast aircraft. He likes Second World War aircraft, and reeled off a list of those he has, and then said 'except the Hurricane. It's a wimps' plane'.    

 

As you might imagine, this heresy could not go unanswered, and after gaping at him in disbelief I resisted the temptation to throw him out -obviously I'm in a good mood today- and instead explained politely exactly why the Hurricane was in no way a wimp's plane. I think he has now learned his lesson, and is suitably re-educated -nay, chastened. It was still tempting to bludgeon him with an Airfix 1/48 Hurricane box, however...

 

[elger]

't is an outrage!

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

I trust this person was around 8 years old? If not, it's an utterly bizarre sort of opinion for an adult to harbour. Even the word choice and the very choice of criteria one would have to consider to arrive at that sort of conclusion for any sort of war machine sounds incredibly immature and lacking in perspective.

[Darby]

Incredulous.

[stringbag]

It's his opinion. One he is entirely entitled to however much one disagrees with it.

Just my opinion of course.

 

Chris.

[Martian]

20 minutes ago, T7 Models said:

I had somebody in the shop earlier who was looking for die cast aircraft. He likes Second World War aircraft, and reeled off a list of those he has, and then said 'except the Hurricane. It's a wimps' plane'.    

 

 

Perhaps the plonker would like to try telling that to the thousands of Axis aircrew shot down by Hurricanes!

 

Shocked of Mars 

[Dads203]

Perhaps he was German?  Or just a punter as opinionated as your good self perhaps   but either way he was a potential customer 

and as  they say " The customer is always right " so to think that you were going to throw him out is a bit extreme 

 

You should just smile and be nice 

[lasermonkey]

I would have reminded him of the "wimps" who flew the Hurricane against the Luftwaffe during the Battle of Britain.

 

Whether one likes the Hurricane or not is, of course, up to the individual, but this poor choice of words is downright insulting to those young men who deserve nothing but the utmost respect.

 

Shame on him!

[gamevender]

Many shot down by Hurricanes would say it had been a Spitfire because they thought to be shot down by a "Hurry" was something to be ashamed of. 

[Troy Smith]

2 hours ago, T7 Models said:

said 'except the Hurricane. It's a wimps' plane'

 

I'd have been curious as to why he had this idea?    Did you ask?  

 

Possibly some playground flashback by uninformed children which had stuck, given the mythological status of the Spitfire....

 

I'll admit my initial interest in the Hurricane was started by the stock standard response of "Spitfire"  among other children as their "favourite"   so to be different I went "Hurricane"  as I was dimly aware of the less glamours 'other' plane ..... age about 6...

 

A chance acquisition of a the 1962 edition of The Hawker Hurricane  by Francis K Mason at 8 meant I was aware of Hurricane variants from then on,  and it's been a pet subject  of mine since,  not that anyone here would have ever guessed that  

 

PS if he ever comes back, tell him about CAM Ship Hurricanes.... and ask if that's  a wimps plane..

 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Troy Smith

[bzn20]

Cart that man off to nearest Stalag.

How can anyone that knows the slightest thing about WW2 and Aeroplanes say that ?

Imagine a thread titled ..Is the Hurricane a wimps aeroplane ?

 

How long would it last before Mike trod on it ?

[noelh]

I thought everyone had got the message by now. Without those 'wimps' flying Hurricanes the result of the BoB would have been rather more in doubt.

 

But you know even the Spitfire often gets a backlash because of its fame. Only recently Flight Journal magazine excluded the Spitfire from its top ten fighters of all time on the bizarre basis that BoB didn't really stop the German invasion and anyway its lineage followed th Bf109. Makes you wonder why the RAF bothered to leave the ground in 1940.

 

It gets worse back in '77, Flying magazine excluded the Spitfire from its top fifty aircraft of all time (yes I have a long memory) because it said the Hurricane shot down more bombers in the BoB. 

Daft.

Edited August 15, 2017 by noelh

[PhoenixII]

1 hour ago, Dads203 said:

..................a potential customer and as  they say " The customer is always right " so to think that you were going to throw him out is a bit extreme 

You should just smile and be nice 

so, you've NEVER worked retail then Dad!

If I may?

 

                           "The customer is never wrong, they can be misinformed, ignorant, stupid, but never wrong, EXCEPT when they are!!"

 

T7, you are INDEED in a bountiful, nay, REALLY layed back mood today, or is it a defence mechanism for emmitts? 

Specially for you, just remember the retailers prayer, "the job'd be GREAT if it wasn't for the customer!"

Should have bounced 'im w' a brick!  Idjit!

 

Paul

 

[Dads203]

5 minutes ago, PhoenixII said:

so, you've NEVER worked retail then Dad!

If I may?

 

                           "The customer is never wrong, they can be misinformed, ignorant, stupid, but never wrong, EXCEPT when they are!!"

 

T7, you are INDEED in a bountiful, nay, REALLY layed back mood today, or is it a defence mechanism for emmitts? 

Specially for you, just remember the retailers prayer, "the job'd be GREAT if it wasn't for the customer!"

Should have bounced 'im w' a brick!  Idjit!

 

Paul

 

 You are right I have never worked in retail and never wish to TBH but the OP is slagging off a guy because of a comment whilst in his shop, that person 

could be a member here or someone that spends thousands on his hobby each year you just don't know, the potential of lost revenue is something you will never know.  If the customer goes to his friends and 

says that the service was not up to much from T7 models then that will spread and spread, not good PR at all.  Considering that the T7 is shop and his customers pay the bills it might be a prudent to sometimes keep things too one's self 

rather than voicing them on a forum where the world can see. It really paints T7 in a not so good light. 

 

A bad review hits more people than a good one is one thing that I was told a long time ago and its true today as it was back then.

From my own experience I've spent a fortune on my hobby so I think I'm qualified on what is good service and what is not and the standard to expect.  

If I went into my local hobby shop and then found out what the owners said about me behind my back I would make sure that everyone I knew 

was informed of his negativity towards customers and the standard of service to expect.

 

I don't wish ill on anybody but the OP has not helped himself in this case.

 

 

Dan 

 

 

[Biggu]

Bottom line it is T7's shop, and if a customer comes in and insults him, he has every right to shoot back, IF revenue is THAT important then he must suck it up, but if it were my shop I would have done the same thing, and the customer had no idea if T7 had lost a relative in a Hurricane, and if one is worried about lost revenue from ONE customer, the business is in trouble..... and it also begs the question, how much did the guy spend in the shop, my guess is little or nothing in the end. Maybe the customer should be a little less forward, and not so willing to express his opinion, just because he is a 'customer' doesn't give him the right to be mouthy....and IF that one customer has that much influence on his friends then probably more customers not needed.... guys like that don't usually buy much.................I'm sure there are many others who would purchase from T7 models....... just sayin... 

[Dads203]

5 minutes ago, Biggu said:

Bottom line it is T7's shop, and if a customer comes in and insults him, he has every right to shoot back, IF revenue is THAT important then he must suck it up, but if it were my shop I would have done the same thing, and the customer had no idea if T7 had lost a relative in a Hurricane, and if one is worried about lost revenue from ONE customer, the business is in trouble..... and it also begs the question, how much did the guy spend in the shop, my guess is little or nothing in the end. Maybe the customer should be a little less forward, and not so willing to express his opinion, just because he is a 'customer' doesn't give him the right to be mouthy....and IF that one customer has that much influence on his friends then probably more customers not needed.... guys like that don't usually buy much.................I'm sure there are many others who would purchase from T7 models....... just sayin... 

 

 

You are not going to last long in business if you take offence at everything small comments that customers say, look I've not posted to start a fight here and quite frankly what T7

does with his shop and customers is not going to change my life one bit. I was just pointing out the facts that if you hack off everybody that comes into your shop and post it up on a open forum that you don't agree with

you will not be around for long, it's not rocket science. T7 has in the past posted quite negative comments on customers in the past all of them should be kept to himself including this one, cringeworthy is a word I would use.

[John Laidlaw]

4 hours ago, T7 Models said:

and instead explained politely exactly why the Hurricane was in no way a wimp's plane

 

My emphasis, but it was there in plain sight. At no point was it said that the customer was "hacked off", merely "chastened". So, all appears to be well.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

11 minutes ago, Dads203 said:

 

 

You are not going to last long in business if you take offence at everything small comments that customers say, look I've not posted to start a fight here and quite frankly what T7

does with his shop and customers is not going to change my life one bit. I was just pointing out the facts that if you hack off everybody that comes into your shop and post it up on a open forum that you don't agree with

you will not be around for long, it's not rocket science. T7 has in the past posted quite negative comments on customers in the past all of them should be kept to himself including this one, cringeworthy is a word I would use.

 

There are some people who give an immediate impression that their money is more trouble than it's worth. Not often, admittedly, but they do exist.

 

I expect everyone who works in some customer facing capacity with decision making powers has decided they don't want a sale from some individual at some time or another. You can just smell hassle from some people.

 

I'm not saying T7 did this or that this potential customer merited it, but from a personal point of view I struggle to say nothing when people are talking utter nonsense. I feel I would be complicit in perpetuating warped views and ignorance if I didn't offer a challenge.

[Troy Smith]

58 minutes ago, Dads203 said:

A bad review hits more people than a good one is one thing that I was told a long time ago and its true today as it was back then.

 

And these days of  social media,  they can be left irresponsibly, easily, with no comeback.     If people have half a brain, they will look at all the comments,   I do read the negative feedback on places like Amazon and ebay,  and the reasons given vary from from deeply sad misunderstanding to malicious and stupid.

 

A little personal comment,   I work in a pub,  usually quiet evenings,  on my own and in charge.

When I clear up, which takes about an hour,  I'm very  easy going,  I  basically clean up around people until about 11.30,  and only then do I  ask people to drink up but give them plenty of time, saying  ideally I'd them to  go in 10 mins.

 

I had a couple of young women in,they played pool until 11.45,  and then asked for another drink, I said no,  I finish at midnight(ish)

they  pestered,   I said NO, I finish in 15 mins,   thank you,  good night.

 

Next day the boss asked about a negative comment left on the pub facebook page,   saying they had never had such rude service, barman evidently didn't want to be there and would not be  coming back.  

(I'd love if they did,  I could guarantee they would encounter proper rude service this time)

 

Ironically,  as I was cleaning up after they left  one of  the dipsticks had left her phone behind, in a case, with driving licence and debit card in the  case!

 

A couple  of  minutes later the pub phone goes,  one of them asking if I had found phone etc.

I said yes,  found it,  it's safe,  behind bar,  I  probably said if  you are still in the  area  come and  pick it   up now.

The negative comments were either left just before that call, or just after.     So, they didn't even have the courtesy to change  their comments.

The phone was picked up safely as well.

 

And as far as Mr T7 shop, perhaps the Hurricane wimp will have been impressed at the knowledge of the proprietor and comeback to  learn more...  

[Biggu]

I didn't post for a fight either, my apologies if I stirred anyone up, not my intention at all......I have been in shops when folks have come in to what appears to spoil for a fight with the owner of the shop..... as I think most owners are only human, and having to 'kiss up' to customers, some days it just may not be worth it... some customers can be down right nasty, and for a few bucks or a few quid, some days it just isn't worth putting up with nonsense... I guess it is chance one must take occasionally.... I know that I get frustrated when folks make ridiculous comments about thing they know nothing about.... and then argue the point...... I am getting old enough to just shake my head and I 'try' to walk away..... and sometimes................... I just CAN'T .. lol!!

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

T7 ... you shouldve hit him with the diecast hurricane. Wimps plane ... Does he realize that he'd be speaking german if it weren't for the Hurricane. Not to detract from the Spitfire but the Hurricane does deserve its glory to.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Biggu]

1 minute ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

T7 ... you shouldve hit him with the diecast hurricane. Wimps plane ... Does he realize that he'd be speaking german if it weren't for the Hurricane. 

HA !!!!! No kidding !! LOL!!!

[Gorby]

A few months ago on Scalemates, a Norwegian modeller said “I can't think of anything more boring than building a Hurricane”! As you can imagine, I was shocked. I told him to go and sit on the naughty step and consider his words, to which he reiterated his libel. Understandably I suggested that he should be fed to the lions – firm but fair I think you will agree.

An Aussie didn’t help, when he pointed out that English lions are made of stone and unlikely to cause injury unless they fall on you. Damn that man!

 

I'm with @Troy Smith, I prefer the Hurrie over the Spit because it's seen by may people as the ugly duckling/second best/poor relation. If the media have their way, the Hurricane will be written out of history altogether.

[Thud4444]

Here's a thought, was he a flight sim player? I can tell you matter of factly some planes reputations aren't exactly accurate when it comes to a proper physics engine. Back during the late 00's I was very active on the Aces High boards. Every month they posted the best planes and the worst. Out of the over 200 or so planes on the game it was almost the same five every month. The C202, the P-40B and E, the F4F and the Hurricane MK1.  Every once in awhile you would get a "glitch in the Matrix" plane in there. I saw a Spit Mk9 one month and an P-38G and 109G another. 

 

Does this detract from the men who flew the Hurri? HECK NO! If anything it made me respect them more. It's hard, I mean really HARD to keep an early mk Hurri competitive once the 109F shows up. And don't even get me started about fighting non historical match ups .303s can barely scratch the American brutes from the same era.

[Truro Model Builder]

Well, that was a surprise.

 

There was me thinking that I'd just recount a happening in which somebody expressed an unusual opinion to me and I was happy to offer a counter opinion, and what do I read?

Quote

opinionated... the customer is always right... just smile and be nice... slagging off a guy... potential of lost revenue is something you will never know... keep things too one's self... paints T7 in a not so good light... I'm qualified on what is good service and what is not and the standard to expect... OP has not helped himself in this case

 

and best of all

 

T7 has in the past posted quite negative comments on customers in the past all of them should be kept to himself including this one, cringeworthy is a word I would use.

 

 

I was going to say that I didn't know you were in the shop when this gent was there, Dan, but then I re-read it and realised that you weren't. So let me go through the salient points once more.

 

He asked for die cast aircraft, telling me he does not make kits, so unlikely to be interested in BM. Specifically he was looking for a Mosquito, and though I do not sell die cast I was quite happy to have a look on some of the appropriate websites to see if there were any available and where he could find them. There were not, so I suggested he take a look on eBay, but be prepared to pay more than he might like. So I went out of my way to help somebody who was never going to spend money in my shop, as I am always happy to do when I get inquiries about model railways, R/C etc. (good service- shocking)

 

That was when he started to talk about some of the models he has, and the way he was describing some of them led me to the conclusion that he was not hugely knowledgeable about the subject. That was when the Hurricane came up. His exact words were "Hurricanes were for wimps. Don't like it. Much prefer the Spitfire." I was surprised, and it showed. I then asked him why he thought that, and he said that the Spitfire was better and the Hurricane doesn't look as good. I said that during the Battle of Britain the Hurricane could outperform the 109 and the Spitfire in some circumstances, and that it had a number of advantages over the Spitfire, including being a much more stable gun platform and the strength of the airframe and its ability to absorb damage. It was overtaken by development, but it still remained in service throughout the war.

 

He admitted he hadn't known that. He also thanked me for my help (more good service) and left the shop with the knowledge that obtaining a die cast Mosquito may be a little more difficult than he was hoping.

 

Did I mention any unfriendliness? No.

 

Did I mention that he left the shop on a sour note? No.

 

Let me make it perfectly clear to you, Dan. I would not for one minute bad mouth -or slag off, as you would put it- a true customer or -like this gent- anybody who might be a customer. And if you really think I would throw somebody out of the shop I suggest you look up the definition of the word 'sarcasm' or even 'humour'. I have a lot of patience, even when I have somebody in the shop who has no intention of spending money but is instead spending half an hour out of the rain explaining to me in great detail what they did in Florida last year. You try working in retail and see how long you can smile and be nice for.

 

Do you feel you can be the judge of good service as you spend a fortune on your hobby? Well, what you consider to be good service may not be somebody else's definition, my friend, and I assure you that I give the same level of service to somebody who brings a stack of kits to the counter as I do to somebody who comes in for one tin of Humbrol paint to touch up their garden gnome with. And I do not get complaints or bad reviews. 

 

Comments like yours make me just want to close down my membership of BM, to be honest, Dan. Seriously, they do not paint YOU in a good light. Or as you say, maybe I should just keep it all to myself and just post platitudes on RFI threads. Not opinionated ones, obviously.

 

And definitely not cringe worthy ones either.