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BIG X

1/72 AFV Newbie Questions

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badger    475

A quick dig around the internet suggests that barrel countershading did not come in until January 1945

 

Hope that helps

 

Regards

 

Ben

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BIG X    1,121
Just now, badger said:

A quick dig around the internet suggests that barrel countershading did not come in until January 1945

 

Hope that helps

 

Regards

 

Ben

Cheers Ben - I'm not keen on it to be honest - but in Sept '44 I don't appear to have that problem ;)

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Bullbasket    1,937

The disruptive wavy pattern on the muzzle was done to break up the shape and appearance of the 17pdr as Firefly's were the primary target for German AT gunners. Sometimes a tin can was fixed half way down the barrel to make it seem as though that was the muzzle break of a 75mm. There are examples of various different methods to try and disguise the appearance of the 17pdr, but it was by no means unanimous. There are many photos of Firefly's with the gun undisguised.

 

John. 

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BIG X    1,121
33 minutes ago, Bullbasket said:

The disruptive wavy pattern on the muzzle was done to break up the shape and appearance of the 17pdr as Firefly's were the primary target for German AT gunners. Sometimes a tin can was fixed half way down the barrel to make it seem as though that was the muzzle break of a 75mm. There are examples of various different methods to try and disguise the appearance of the 17pdr, but it was by no means unanimous. There are many photos of Firefly's with the gun undisguised.

 

John. 

Cheers John,  I assumed that was what it was for - to make the barrel look shorter from a distance - I just think it is going to be too fiddly for me at 1/72.

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Bullbasket    1,937
26 minutes ago, BIG X said:

Cheers John,  I assumed that was what it was for - to make the barrel look shorter from a distance - I just think it is going to be too fiddly for me at 1/72.

It can be achieved, even in 1/72nd. Some masking tape, cut to the correct width, can be wound around the barrel at the point where a 75mm would end, to represent a tin can. For the

wavy line, spray the end of the barrel an off white or light grey colour, then cut a wavy pattern into some masking tape, apply it to the barrel and then spray the base colour on.

Below, you can see how I did it on a 1/48th Firefly.

 

John.

 

 29aa8d38-6240-444c-a154-be7db4b824cf.JPG 

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BIG X    1,121

...just remembered I have 2 of these in the garage - somewhere...

 

8950rota.jpg

I used to be a Rotatrim dealer - 'in a previous life' and the guy who owned the company gave me 2 of these to 'play with' at a show in Germany - back in the nineties.  They don't make them anymore, but apparently someone from Rotatrim told me they go for a pretty penny on ebay these days.  There are at least two different wavy cutter heads in the set - I must fish one out - would be ace for cutting wavy lines in tamiya tape.

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Niall    93

The light camo on the barrel on Fireflies was to make them look like 75mm gunned Shermans so is common on most vehicles.

 

Here is a picture of the Cromwell ARV I made from the Armourfast Cromwell kit -

35129401153_70dd68424c_z.jpg

 

I drew the unit markings in a program called DrawPlus and printed them on white transfer film bought from here -

http://www.craftycomputerpaper.co.uk/

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BIG X    1,121

Hi Niall - That is really nice - did it come with the aerials or did you make and add them?

 

I've been wondering about track colours too - I am thinking black - then weathered silver and rust.

 

Or maybe I should do them gunmetal and then apply dirt.

 

 

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badger    475

Hi Steve

 

I tend to paint my tracks with a gunmetal aerosol then apply a black wash to shade, followed by a sepia wash to age.

 

I then lightly highlight the raised contact areas with a dark silver.

 

Some shermans had rubber pads on their tracks which a paint with a mix of earth brown and black to represent aged rubber (pure black is way too stark)

 

For aerials I use stretched sprue painted black.

 

Regards

 

Ben

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badger    475
2 hours ago, Niall said:

Here is a picture of the Cromwell ARV I made from the Armourfast Cromwell kit -

Nice job!!

 

One cromwell varient I still need to add to the collection.

 

Regards

Ben

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Niall    93

The aerials are stretched sprue. As it is a wargame model I used the sprue from soft plastic figures as this is more durable when the model is handled.

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Bangor Lad    566

IMG_1135.2014-10-30_162614_kindlephoto-8

 

Here's my PSC Firefly. The disruptive pattern on the barrel was hand painted.

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BIG X    1,121

OK AFV fans - I have a half track question...

If this half track is sporting a winch on the front (very butch looking too)...

 

5f9b618e2b63089fd8b9e1daee71c6f6.jpg

 

...then what on earth is this - on the front of almost every half track picture I find???

 

M3_halftrack_front_Wings_Over_Wine_Contr

 

If this is a daft question then I apologise in advance - I am new to this part of town...

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Niall    93

it is a roller, used to stop the vehicle from getting stuck when driving into ditches.

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BIG X    1,121
Just now, Niall said:

it is a roller, used to stop the vehicle from getting stuck when driving into ditches.

BRILLIANT!!!!!!  That makes perfect sense - Thanks Niall - YOU ARE A STAR!!!!!!

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BIG X    1,121

OK - whilst nothing is going on here at work - here is my next potentially stupid question...

It is hard to tell from period photos what half track 'tracks' were made of.

I 'assumed' they would be metal - but contemporary photos like this one seem to show rubber???

 

half01.jpg

 

is this a modern re-work to stop half track owners chewing up todays roads - OR - were they made from rubber???

...again - help would be appreciated.

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BIG X    1,121

...and whilst I'm on a roll - what about 'windscreens'???

This superb looking model clearly has muddy windscreens...

 

259f070685f40db34777ea0fa97ce5ac--locati

 

...but I can't find any images of 'the real thing' with anything that looks like windscreens - either that or they are spotless - here is an example...

 

61ce5e059bc520c1eb9ff9cad59693f7.jpg

 

...a very grubby half track - but not a speck of dirt on the windscreen - if there was one???

 

All help gratefully received - I'm new to the AFV district of the forum. :newb:

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Black Knight    3,587

Afaik there was no internal windscreen in the M3/M6

Real ones I've seen up close do not have them

It would be too dangerous for the driver; getting shards of glass blasted into his face when the armour screen was hit

 

As for the tracks; many tracks are cast steel or aluminium plates with rubber cushions bonded/vulcanised on. Saves wear on both the tracks and on road surfaces

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Ade H    88

Steve, further to what Black Knight mentioned about the tracks, the Osprey book about the M3 describes them as two steel cables with steel track guides between them and the vulcanised rubber effectively coating it all. They apparently stretched and were prone to being thrown (though I assume this was improved during production). Inadequate track tensioning by the crews was a factor.

 

Edit: Re the question of a glass windscreen, I've found some photos in said book of half-tracks (e.g. M2A1 and M16) with windscreens. In one case, I can clearly see wipers and their telltale swipes through dust.

Edited by Ade H

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BIG X    1,121

Thanks guys.  I may have been a bit 'vague' - a bad habit of mine.  I now know there are LOTS of different half tracks out there - a lot looking similar - but made by different companies.  My focus at the moment is the M5 - which I believe is virtually the same as an M3 - but manufactured by a different company and featuring a few very subtle differences.

 

I can understand why a Tilly or a GS truck might have a glass windscreen and equally I can understand why a front line half track might not...

 

Also on the track front - are we saying this track would be accurate for an M5???

 

 This is tagged as an M5 and they look rubber to me...

 

Picture333.jpg

 

...shame though, as I was looking forward to gunmetal tracks / black wash / silver highlights with a 2B pencil - I'll have to save that for another job. 

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BIG X    1,121
1 hour ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

thanks for the link - I'll take a look now...

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Ade H    88

The M5/M9 was very similar to the M2/M3. They were heavier (not sure why off-hand). The biggest differences were external, with round rather than butt-joined corners (as your pic shows) and flattened stamped fenders rather than the compound curved type (also clear in your pic). The biggest single user of the M5 was Britain. The tracks were identical as far as I know.

Edited by Ade H

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BIG X    1,121
1 hour ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

That link has proved immediately helpful and EVERYONE IS RIGHT - I love that...

 

this book explains windscreen / no  windscreen...

 

Seen in TM 9-710 "Basic Half-Track Vehicles", page 307:

 

windscreen.jpg

 

...now - more questions...

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BIG X    1,121
14 minutes ago, Ade H said:

The M5/M9 was very similar to the M2/M3. They were heavier (not sure why off-hand). The biggest differences were external, with round rather than butt-joined corners (as your pic shows) and flattened stamped fenders rather than the compound curved type (also clear in your pic). The biggest single user of the M5 was Britain. The tracks were identical as far as I know.

Rubber tracks it is then ;) Cheers Ade :thumbsup:

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