“Achtung, Spitfeur!!” Do217E-2 and Spitfire IX overhead, but in 1969?

[Ventora3300]

In another post, someone asked about what our first models were – mine, via an assist, was an Airfix Do217 (‘red stripe’ box in those days) but it prompted me to dig out an old photograph that I remembered my Dad taking.

A bit of a deception of course because the writing on the back says ‘1969, over the River Tay’! The picture was taken at the family home in Dundee with the River Tay just at the bottom of the road. The models were suspended on threads from the window frame. Hats off to Dad because he must have spent a bit of time in getting the angles right – looks like a beam attack from port in progress. (Wasn’t that the year that the film ‘The Battle of Britain’ was released?). I can remember him saying ‘Achtung, Spitfeur’ but he was of that ‘war generation’, after all!

However, since I am getting going on modelling again and need a theme to really push me along, I thought I would re-do an Airfix Dornier Do217E-2 and a Supermarine Spitfire Mk.IX both in flight and try to re-create the scene in the black and white photo.

I do have both of these kits in the stash so firstly re-lived the ecstasy of opening the red stripe Do217 box – look at that sky blue plastic!

In the spirit of these things, I put together as much of the kit as I could, just pausing to paint in the engines in black and the crew areas in what I imagined to be a reasonable ‘cockpit green’.

The general fit of everything is not too good and I remembered that some time ago, I saw the previous excellent builds ‘A brace of Airfix old timer Dornier 217's ‘ by Mottlemaster, September 11, 2013 in The Obsolete Kit Group Build  (photobucket images now not visible) and this really made the penny drop as to the limitations of this kit – totally ignored in 1969.

 

The ailerons had to be trimmed to be moveable and had sink marks – I’ll leave this as ‘battle damage’. The dorsal turret was a very tight fit in its mountings so much sanding and filing was required before I could rotate it easily without bending the protruding machine gun.

 

So, when it came to putting the flight deck together, I raised it in the fuselage by adding in a couple of layers of corrugated cardboard – this Do217 had the thickest armour plating in the whole Luftwaffe! I positioned the seats slightly differently to bring the control column and instrument panel within reach of the pilot and to allow the seats to come up into the canopy space.

Unfortunately, the pilot ended up sitting slightly ‘side-saddle’ as I wasn’t keen on taking a file to the insides of his legs, poor guy.

Now that the crew is going to be visible, I gave them brown overalls and black boots (with a shine), varying the brown on helmets and life preservers. The detail of the crew is basic but I had a go at putting some silver on their large round goggles – hoping it will all look OK behind the canopies.

 

Cut out the instrument panel fascia from the Instructions and fixed with PVA glue.

 

Getting the propellers in place was a bit of a nightmare because I was determined that they were going to be able to rotate when subjected to a breeze when finished – they would not press together satisfactorily and the final fit was wobbly.

 

The engine cowlings would not assemble to the nacelles without a great deal of sanding/filing down and all of the exhaust/flame dampers required a large dot of plastic removed from the top surface as well as flash removed. Some filing back of one side of the engine nacelles was also required to get a decent fit.

The main undercarriage all went together and remained ‘retractable’ but the port wheel has an off-centre axle hole on one side and will need to be filled and re-drilled later. There are no bracing struts on this undercarriage so leaving them moveable will be dodgy unless I come up with a method of bracing. The undercarriage doors seemed to fit well once a little flash was removed so the idea sprung into my mind that I would try to have them ‘hinged’ in some manner so that the undercarriage could be stowed and the doors shut for ‘flight mode’. Grey duct tape was available and I was able to cut thin strips with my wallpaper scissors.

 

The tailwheel doors will have to go flat against the formed well to be flush with the rear fuselage but I initially found this to be impossible because of the thickness (albeit slight) of the duct tape ‘hinges’. A bit of filing in the hinge positions with a small square file has sorted this out. The tailwheel is not a tight fit in the rear fuselage so when the rear wheel doors are open, I’ll need to keep the tailwheel in place with a blob of blue-tac – just re-created a ‘castoring’ tailwheel.

 

After a couple of attempts at the main undercarriage doors and a little removal of flash, I managed to insert small strips of the duct tape and press in place in the hinge tab positions. It is a bit fiddly to close the doors and set them in place flush with the undersides of the engine nacelles but it can be done – I don’t plan on demonstrating this often! I think a blob of blue tac can be used as something to close against when the doors are shut and something to ‘lock’ the main undercarriage legs in the vertical when they are open.

 

 

 

Dry fit of wings on fuselage - looks reasonable but a bit more sanding required.

 

On with the painting…..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2017 by Ventora3300
Progress

[cybershed]

Well done your dad! Love the pic, especially with it having a link to my home city

 

[Ventora3300]

19 hours ago, cybershed said:

Well done your dad! Love the pic, especially with it having a link to my home city

 

This has prompted me to check up   https://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/rubis/index.htm since my Dad mentioned 'Norwegians in flying boats' (might be another theme to follow). Another article places Do217's over Aberdeen but that's only up the road!

Regards,

Mike

[cybershed]

3 hours ago, Ventora3300 said:

This has prompted me to check up   https://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/rubis/index.htm since my Dad mentioned 'Norwegians in flying boats' (might be another theme to follow). Another article places Do217's over Aberdeen but that's only up the road!

Regards,

Mike

Cheers for the link Mike.  I haven't seen that website before so I look forward to reading it.

 

By way of returning the favour, I would recommend that you get yourself a hold of the book called 'Sea Dog Bamse: World War II Canine Hero'.  He came to Dundee with the Norwegian sailors during WWII and the book is a great read, telling of Bamse's adventures in Dundee and Montrose during WWII.  

 

There is also a statue of Bamse in Montrose.

 

[Michael51]

A very interesting background to a lovely project. I do so like these context-rich builds.

 

The memories flow back. What a joy it was to build without fear of  today's 'precision' then fly the thing around bombing plastic soldiers in the sand pit or something.  But I digress.

 

This is your build and I will follow it with interest.

 

Michael

[Ventora3300]

13 hours ago, Michael Enright said:

A very interesting background to a lovely project. I do so like these context-rich builds.

 

The memories flow back. What a joy it was to build without fear of  today's 'precision' then fly the thing around bombing plastic soldiers in the sand pit or something.  But I digress.

 

This is your build and I will follow it with interest.

 

Michael

Many thanks, Michael. I am trying to keep it simple but I do like a neat paint job (factory fresh without 'weathering') so tend to end up fiddling back and forth with that - the photos are always ruthless because they pick up what I can't see at 1/72! However, the penny is dropping that I can't keep using chrome silver for undercarriage legs and gloss black for tyres and guns so more realistic colours coming in I'm afraid!

And yes, I left the bombs (thinking of the He111 here) and torpedoes (SM.79) unglued on my boyhood models so that I could unleash them on the various Infantries struggling across the carpet! (My digression is that I remember firing off a ball bearing from a spring loaded model cannon in the direction of 'HMS Victory' which stoutly rebounded it back over my shoulder!).

Regards,

Mike

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

43 minutes ago, Ventora3300 said:

...I remember firing off a ball bearing from a spring loaded model cannon in the direction of 'HMS Victory' which stoutly rebounded it back over my shoulder!

Followed by a couple of choruses of "Heart of Oak", no doubt!

[Michael51]

8 hours ago, Ventora3300 said:

Many thanks, Michael. I am trying to keep it simple but I do like a neat paint job (factory fresh without 'weathering') so tend to end up fiddling back and forth with that - the photos are always ruthless because they pick up what I can't see at 1/72! However, the penny is dropping that I can't keep using chrome silver for undercarriage legs and gloss black for tyres and guns so more realistic colours coming in I'm afraid!

And yes, I left the bombs (thinking of the He111 here) and torpedoes (SM.79) unglued on my boyhood models so that I could unleash them on the various Infantries struggling across the carpet! (My digression is that I remember firing off a ball bearing from a spring loaded model cannon in the direction of 'HMS Victory' which stoutly rebounded it back over my shoulder!).

Regards,

Mike

Mike,

 

Well I am glad to learn that someone else has admitted to the joys of practical application modelling as a young chap.

 

Growing up and seeing one's love of kits being channelled into the right shade of this and the appropriate shape of that really has taken a lot of the fun out of it.

 

Why a sixty-six years old man can't hold a steady course with a hurriedly built Lanc.  over the front garden flower bed without the neighbours throwing garlic at you is beyond me.

 

Maybe they are joining in with improvised flak but somehow I doubt it.

 

I am feeling what I presume is Ced's pain with his Halifax build, especially as I am presently attempting a high-tech build of the same kit.

 

After that, I think I will do a basic build of an old Matchbox Halifax and just fly it around the house.

 

Michael

[yarvelling]

3 hours ago, Michael Enright said:

Mike,

 

Well I am glad to learn that someone else has admitted to the joys of practical application modelling as a young chap.

 

Growing up and seeing one's love of kits being channelled into the right shade of this and the appropriate shape of that really has taken a lot of the fun out of it.

 

Why a sixty-six years old man can't hold a steady course with a hurriedly built Lanc.  over the front garden flower bed without the neighbours throwing garlic at you is beyond me.

 

Maybe they are joining in with improvised flak but somehow I doubt it.

 

I am feeling what I presume is Ced's pain with his Halifax build, especially as I am presently attempting a high-tech build of the same kit.

 

After that, I think I will do a basic build of an old Matchbox Halifax and just fly it around the house.

 

Michael

Y'know, I think a lot of why we don't build them as we did when we were kids is that now, we can build them them as we always imagined that they looked back then when you're 8 or 9, and it's all gleaming blue or grey plastic, with wonky transfers applied... but in your mind's-eye, it was always perfectly camouflaged ...   Plus, back then, for me, it was the late 60's and my parents were reluctant to let me loose with the paints available at the time - Humbrol enamel - and I can't say that I blame them!! Ha Ha!!   Then when a year or so later, I was finally allowed to use it, the results were very much what could be described as needing 'artistic license'..... but even then, to me, it still looked good enough.... but I was still only young - 10 or 11 maybe!

Youthful imagination certainly filled-in a lot of blanks and inaccuracies .... but now, 45-odd years on, well, we've hopefully improved our skills, and there's no parents forbidding enamel paints being randomly splashed around the kitchen or bedroom!!  Ha Ha!!   
 

It certainly helps too that now research has provided so much more information for more accurate colouring and camouflage patterns, but yeah, certainly for me as a kid in the 60's, it was light blue plastic with raised panel lines, a peg to sit a 'pilot' on in the cockpit area, and you had to heat a knife-end to melt the end of a plastic peg on the undercarriage legs to hold the wheel on, and still allow the wheel to turn, and that was brilliant Hurricane or Spitfire....   

 

And very sorry for side-tracking your thread here Ventora3300..... love your original memories and the old photo that your Dad took..... wonderful memories to have, and loving your build of the old Dornier kit.... looking forward to seeing what happens next...!!

Cheers,

Steve.

[TonyTiger66]

This is a great idea for a build Mike, and has created a really nostalgic thread .

 

I have the exact same Dornier kit and I don't want to get rid of it; theres something very comforting about the box art style, the smell of the fusty old cardboard, the yellowed instructions and Airfix Club flyer.

 

The crew members look like they've had a few ales and are star gazing !

 

Great stuff, looking forward to paint and the Spitfire,

Best regards

TonyT

[Ventora3300]

14 hours ago, Michael Enright said:

Mike,

 

Well I am glad to learn that someone else has admitted to the joys of practical application modelling as a young chap.

 

Growing up and seeing one's love of kits being channelled into the right shade of this and the appropriate shape of that really has taken a lot of the fun out of it.

 

Why a sixty-six years old man can't hold a steady course with a hurriedly built Lanc.  over the front garden flower bed without the neighbours throwing garlic at you is beyond me.

 

Maybe they are joining in with improvised flak but somehow I doubt it.

 

I am feeling what I presume is Ced's pain with his Halifax build, especially as I am presently attempting a high-tech build of the same kit.

 

After that, I think I will do a basic build of an old Matchbox Halifax and just fly it around the house.

 

Michael

Michael, I agree entirely. I am sure I will try a 'high tech' eventually but it is still early days this time around. Flying the models in the garden has got me thinking about setting up some sort of zip-wire with a gentle slope....It could be the next step on from hanging from the ceiling!

Best of luck with the Halifax build (is there a link?).

Mike

[Ventora3300]

11 hours ago, yarvelling said:

Y'know, I think a lot of why we don't build them as we did when we were kids is that now, we can build them them as we always imagined that they looked back then when you're 8 or 9, and it's all gleaming blue or grey plastic, with wonky transfers applied... but in your mind's-eye, it was always perfectly camouflaged ...   Plus, back then, for me, it was the late 60's and my parents were reluctant to let me loose with the paints available at the time - Humbrol enamel - and I can't say that I blame them!! Ha Ha!!   Then when a year or so later, I was finally allowed to use it, the results were very much what could be described as needing 'artistic license'..... but even then, to me, it still looked good enough.... but I was still only young - 10 or 11 maybe!

Youthful imagination certainly filled-in a lot of blanks and inaccuracies .... but now, 45-odd years on, well, we've hopefully improved our skills, and there's no parents forbidding enamel paints being randomly splashed around the kitchen or bedroom!!  Ha Ha!!   
 

It certainly helps too that now research has provided so much more information for more accurate colouring and camouflage patterns, but yeah, certainly for me as a kid in the 60's, it was light blue plastic with raised panel lines, a peg to sit a 'pilot' on in the cockpit area, and you had to heat a knife-end to melt the end of a plastic peg on the undercarriage legs to hold the wheel on, and still allow the wheel to turn, and that was brilliant Hurricane or Spitfire....   

 

And very sorry for side-tracking your thread here Ventora3300..... love your original memories and the old photo that your Dad took..... wonderful memories to have, and loving your build of the old Dornier kit.... looking forward to seeing what happens next...!!

Cheers,

Steve.

Steve, no problem and an enjoyable read from your trip down memory lane. I think I also had the same early perceptions of what looked 'right' but surely that was the closest we had to re-creating the exciting aircraft shapes and colours - no PC's and computer games then!

This is going to be a bit of a slower build but it will get finished! Plenty other ideas brewing.

Best of luck.

Mike

[mackem01]

12 minutes ago, Ventora3300 said:

Why a sixty-six years old man can't hold a steady course with a hurriedly built Lanc.  over the front garden flower bed without the neighbours throwing garlic at you is beyond me.

 

Maybe they are joining in with improvised flak but somehow I doubt it.

[Ventora3300]

7 hours ago, TonyTiger66 said:

This is a great idea for a build Mike, and has created a really nostalgic thread .

 

I have the exact same Dornier kit and I don't want to get rid of it; theres something very comforting about the box art style, the smell of the fusty old cardboard, the yellowed instructions and Airfix Club flyer.

 

The crew members look like they've had a few ales and are star gazing !

 

Great stuff, looking forward to paint and the Spitfire,

Best regards

TonyT

Many thanks TonyT, I think I need a bit of incentive to start and finish. However, the small work tray it is all happening on needs to be returned to the 'secret hangar' between bursts of activity to keep 'under the radar'. I am looking forward to 'splinter camouflage' (checking if I have the greens) and my mind is in a spin about how to get the angles right for the final photo shoot!

Cheers.

Mike

[HomerJ_757]

10 minutes ago, Ventora3300 said:

Michael, I agree entirely. I am sure I will try a 'high tech' eventually but it is still early days this time around. Flying the models in the garden has got me thinking about setting up some sort of zip-wire with a gentle slope....It could be the next step on from hanging from the ceiling!

Best of luck with the Halifax build (is there a link?).

Mike

That remark about the zip-line took me back to the 70's and my Flight Deck game.  Land a phantom looky-likey on a bit of plastic!  Grinning like an idiot just thinking about it! 😃

[PLC1966]

8 hours ago, TonyTiger66 said:

 

 

The crew members look like they've had a few ales and are star gazing !

 

 

Good thread.

 

I thought the crew needed to get some Guiness and Steak down to build themselves up a bit.

[Eric Mc]

I hope the Hun was sent packing

 

I like retro-builds.

[HomerJ_757]

Guinness and steak? They' need some proper food like Alt bier, Zigeuner Schnitzel mit Pommes und Mayo!

[Ventora3300]

28 minutes ago, HomerJ_757 said:

Guinness and steak? They' need some proper food like Alt bier, Zigeuner Schnitzel mit Pommes und Mayo!

...if they come down in the River Tay then it will be either Dundee 'Peh's' or 'Forfar Bridies' for tea, washed down by 'Export'.

However, in light that we are all pals nowadays, I'll make sure the story has a happy ending for all concerned!

Thanks for your posts.

Mike

[PLC1966]

1 hour ago, HomerJ_757 said:

Guinness and steak? They' need some proper food like Alt bier, Zigeuner Schnitzel mit Pommes und Mayo!

Absolutely quality answer, and took me straight back to when I was in my prime, although I tended to go for Jaeger more than Zigeuner but certainly not exclusively.

 

uuuummmm, alt bier !!!

[Michael51]

10 hours ago, Ventora3300 said:

Michael, I agree entirely. I am sure I will try a 'high tech' eventually but it is still early days this time around. Flying the models in the garden has got me thinking about setting up some sort of zip-wire with a gentle slope....It could be the next step on from hanging from the ceiling!

Best of luck with the Halifax build (is there a link?).

Mike

Hi Mike,

 

No link for my Halifax Series II 1a. It is just not good enough and I have a slight insecurity complex that makes me prone to a fear of encouragement, let alone criticism.

 

I hope to post a picture when it is finished; something moody, low light, taken from ten feet away....

 

I just sprayed the 'night' undersides yesterday with a new Badger dual action and a new compressor. The former was fine; the latter stopped dead at the inevitably crucial moment and left a drizzle of spray in quite a few places.

 

Now, if I were young again, I would have just slapped the decals on it and flown it to  the Alsatian dog collar fabrication works at Dogsburghaven,

 

Michael

 

ps I hasten to add that I am a lover of dogs and recently lost my ageing but beautiful German shorthaired pointer. The only area bombing she received was with bits of Digestive biscuit. She quite took to it. Things are more other-side-of-the Channel now that we have two whippets. Both are keen modellers, particularly when it comes to nicking things like my Eduard mask set and tape for the Halifax build.

M

Edited August 10, 2017 by Michael Enright
Alzheimer remembers

[Ventora3300]

Some more progress and a request for help on colours....

 

Got a couple of coats of ‘Pale Blue’ (Hu65 – love this colour) on the undersides before putting the wings on…why?? Decided to have only the inside surfaces of the undercarriage and tailwheel doors left as ‘internal green’. These doors are really fiddly so they came off again to get a decent paint job. Then back on again once the paint had dried – not sure how many ‘gear up' and 'gear down' operations they will stand. Another disaster – one of the undercarriage legs has suffered a break in the main pivot inside the engine nacelle – still hanging in place but much looser than desired – maybe some micro surgery later…

 

Undercarriage legs and wheel discs changed from initial chrome silver to a more ‘realistic’ darker steel colour – what is happening to me…? Propeller blades in metallic rather than the matt black on the spinners – just for a bit of variation.

Bought a micro drill set to try to sort out the off-centre axle hole on one of the main wheels – filled with ‘plastic wood’ (plenty of that used to date in my house) and re-drilled – not sure how much of a difference has been made. Wheel discs now darker steel and tyres in matt black. Much re-touching up on the disc/tyre boundary.

 

 

 

Wings on and amateur hour kicked in as the glue bubbled out of the joints and onto the wing roots – too much!

Wings are straight and tailplane seems in line OK but I’ve now spotted that the port engine cowling is angled up slightly – the fit is not good so it had to be pulled off and re-fixed. Excess glue needed to be sanded off.

Continue on with the painting – trying to decide what is the best ‘Olive Green’ colour to use on the fuselage sides and upper surfaces.

Olive Green M3 comes up as Matt Dark Green Hu30 on the list of paints I have. How about a search for ‘Olive Green’? There is ‘Light Olive’ at Hu86 and Olive Drab at Hu66 (too dark) and Hu155. My first thought is to go with the Hu86 as the lighter of the two greens.

Even though the painting guide on this ‘red stripe’ version of the kit shows all upper surfaces in Olive, I’m going to do splinter camouflage (see the 1978 E/J version of this kit) on the upper wing surfaces and leave the fuselage sides as Olive as a nod to the Roy Cross artwork on the box!

Did a test of the Hu30 Olive colour on the Fuel Drop Tanks and some Hu86 (light Olive) on one of the fins – did a comparison with a real olive and I think the greens I am using are too dark. The Roy Cross artwork seems to be closer to the ‘real olive’.

 

 

Put on a first coat of Hu86 – looks darker in the photo than in real life but it still seems to be the best match, although the Hu120 Light Green that I used for the cockpit interior is worryingly also a fair match…

I think I definitely want to use Hu75 Matt Bronze Green as the darker of the two greens on the splinter camouflage but will a ‘real olive’ colour be too light to go with that?. (Hu66 and Hu30 worked well on the FW190D I did recently). 

Masked up for the ‘olive’ colour…

 

 

 

Any of your experiences or thoughts would be welcome…………..

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Ventora3300
progress

[Ventora3300]

Decided to go with Hu86. I picked up a very good tip from somewhere about avoiding the effects of bleed-through – do a quick coat of the colour being masked on the edge of the masking so that the bleed through is in the same colour and the edge is sealed before the second colour is applied. It worked a treat and these must be the best colour boundaries I’ve ever produced. However, still lots of touching in of edges where the masking was difficult. Thought the tail fins warranted some light blue on the underside of the bottom edge.

Long range drop tanks painted unmasked as there was a good construction line to paint to – pleased I can still produce some steady-handed stuff.

Still some touching up to do at colour boundaries – the photos are merciless!

 

The canopies do not have a definite raised delineation of the framework so hand painting is definitely out! I have decided to go the long way round and try masking long sections of framework at a time to avoid fiddly masking of individual panes.

In progress…..

 

 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Ventora3300
correction

[Ventora3300]

Progress - masked for the darker green Hu75 of the splinter camouflage – done but it seemed a bit oily and inconsistent I’ve got a suspicion that the brush got contaminated during cleaning with white spirit. However, really like the splinter effect – tried to follow the scheme on the later Airfix Do217 E/J paint instructions - and retained a constant light olive green when seen from the sides.

 

 

 Touched in a rusty brown colour on the engine exhausts and the back of the flame boxes.

 

 

 

Given the Do217 a couple of coats of ‘Future’ equivalent to prepare for the decals but struggling on with the canopies in the meantime.

Since the remainder of the paintwork on the Do217 is on the canopies, I think I am In a position now to commence on the Spitfire MkIX.

Here is the kit released from the stash – again, great memories of building this as a boy. I seem to remember the fuselage band in duck egg blue (actually says duck egg green on the painting instructions) was fiddly to get right – I thought I could smell the enamel there!

 

 

 

All the plastic parts washed in soapy water and dried off – commenced on the cockpit innards and wheels etc. I am going to put something inside the wing radiators to avoid the ‘see through’ effect.

Looking forward to using the RAF Blue on the pilot

In progress…..

Edited August 22, 2017 by Ventora3300
correction

[Ventora3300]

Do217 canopies completed, fairly happy with this given the complexity but I’m sure practice will make more perfect. Guns mounted and canopies fixed with PVA glue to the fuselage.

 

 

 

 

 

Gave the Do217 another coat of ‘Future’ equivalent polish and it is now ready for transfers!

 

 

 

Progressed a little on the Spitfire IX – pilot is now clad in RAF blue with his Mae West in place. Helmet and oxygen mask painted but he needs some colour in his face. Propeller commenced but I need to do some flash removal before I can get on with the spinner and wheel hubs – painting on the sprue will help with the neatness when mounted on the model.

 

In progress…..

Edited August 31, 2017 by Ventora3300
Better photography.