Gene K Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 1 hour ago, 72modeler said: ... there are two 50's era USN types from the list I sent to [Sword] ... . Hopefully both you and Tommy suggested the F-11 and FJ-4!!! Gene K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 23 minutes ago, Gene K said: Hopefully both you and Tommy suggested the F-11 and FJ-4!!! Gene K Nope. neither one. There was discussion that although they might be long in the tooth or had shape/detail parts issues, there were existing kits of those two types and with the aftermarket parts available and some modeling ability, very good models could be built. The impression I got was that they considered the sales potential of a new-tool kit in the case of those two examples, plus the limited fan base/sales potential, if you will, of those two types in the worldwide market, was not nearly as good as a new-tool kit of a type that had no existing examples. Made sense to me, even though I definitely would like to see a new-tool FJ-4/4b, like the many of you, to replace the Emhar kit; the Hasegawa F-11F in my opinion, is a very good kit that just needs a canopy, cockpit, and possibly wheels to take it up a notch. (I'm sitting on three of them- one early and two late!) My unlearned and definitely uneducated opinion, you understand! Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 4 hours ago, Gene K said: Do the present -2 wings fit the -3 fuselage? Gene K The -2 wings fit but the -3 fuselage has to be modified to reduce the size of the fairing on the ammo bay door. The catapult-hook well on the belly may also be different between the FJ-2 and the early FJ-3 (for sure it's different eventually). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Gene K said: Hopefully both you and Tommy suggested the F-11 and FJ-4!!! Gene K I agree with 72modeler, particularly if the Hasegawa F11F is still available although I'm curious as to the problem with its canopy. The Emhar FJ-4 is a little crude by today's standards but it can be built to an acceptable standard (see http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235015791-emhar-fj-4-fury-172/) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 56 minutes ago, Tailspin Turtle said: I agree with 72modeler, particularly if the Hasegawa F11F is still available although I'm curious as to the problem with its canopy. The Emhar FJ-4 is a little crude by today's standards but it can be built to an acceptable standard (see http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235015791-emhar-fj-4-fury-172/) TT, I don't have any problem with the Hasegawa F-11F canopy, but read some comments regarding it awhile back; I don't always agree with what I read, especially as I'm a little leery of the "1mm too long or too short" school of thought. Haven't fiddled with mine for a while, but I always thought the Emhar FJ-4 was a pretty decent kit to work from, and that was before Pavla made some nice bits available. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 18 hours ago, Tailspin Turtle said: I agree with 72modeler, particularly if the Hasegawa F11F ... . The Emhar FJ-4 is a little crude ... . A modern scribed F-11 is at the top of my list, as is an FJ-4 that doesn't require a ton of patience and talent to beat into submission ... like RidgeRunner exercised. I think you are being a little too kind when you say the Emhar "is a little crude". Will you be doing a build log of your nose conversion? As an aside, I appreciate your sharing very much ... as always!! In that regard, another subject on my list of Sword desirables is an F4H early Phantom/Conversion (earlier than the Falcon conversion). I appreciate that will never happen, but have all your early Phantom material in waiting. Gene K 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) 17 hours ago, 72modeler said: ... I always thought the Emhar FJ-4 was a pretty decent kit to work from, and that was before Pavla made some nice bits available. Mike, What changed your January opinion when you called the kit "a real bow wow" in agreeing with RidgeRunner? Based on your and Tommy's comments (and RidgeRunner's beautiful build), I just ordered another two (gave up and threw away the very old one I had). Gene K Edited October 25, 2017 by Gene K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 49 minutes ago, Gene K said: A modern scribed F-11 is at the top of my list, as is an FJ-4 that doesn't require a ton of patience and talent to beat into submission ... like RidgeRunner exercised. I think you are being a little too kind when you say the Emhar "is a little crude". Will you be doing a build log of your nose conversion? As an aside, I appreciate your sharing very much ... as always!! In that regard, another subject on my list of Sword desirables is an F4H early Phantom/Conversion (earlier than the Falcon conversion). I appreciate that will never happen, but have all your early Phantom material in waiting. Gene K A "little crude" is on a crude scale that includes the Merlin Models FJ-4B (somewhat crude) and the AirModel FJ-4 (crude and incomplete). Note that crude doesn't mean unbuildable, just challenging. I've completed the Airmodel AJ Savage, AM Mauler, F2H Banshee, HO3S, etc. My model building is on the back burner until I finish my monograph on the first 47 Phantom IIs. However, I've just figured out that simply cutting back the Sword FJ inlet is limited by the location of the nose landing gear's forward door but rounding off the top of the nose and cutting back the inlet at the bottom a little looks reasonable. So I'm continuing to indulge in fantasy modeling by dry fitting and making notes (e.g., the nose landing gear looks a bit long when assembled, generating an excessively nose-up stance depending on the length of the main gear). Also note that Sabrejet is on the case and documenting it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Gene K said: Mike, What changed your January opinion when you called the kit "a real bow wow" in agreeing with RidgeRunner? Based on your and Tommy's comments (and RidgeRunner's beautiful build), I just ordered another two (gave up and threw away the very old one I had). Gene K Gene, Had to go back to see what I had posted- I'm doing good to remember what I had for breakfast this morning, much less what trivial comments I made back then! I guess the term 'bow-wow' had a different connotation for you than I meant. The comments made by others seemed to also indicate that they weren't exactly in love with the Emhar release, either, as compared to the efforts from other kit makers. I myself have three of the Emhar FJ-4's, but when I saw what it would take to bring it up to today's current standard of detail, and the fact that were no aftermarket parts available back then, it was more trouble than I thought it was worth, considering my much reduced rate of completion of kits nowadays...I'm lucky to get anything finished now, so I would rather spend the time on a kit that goes together more easily and doesn't require a lot of reworking and/or aftermarket goodies to bring it up to the quality that I now have learned to build to, (Such as that is!) or the quality displayed by the majority of kits being released nowadays. I guess must include myself in that group of old-timers that seem to have gotten spoiled by the quality of the newer kits, and have been guilty of carping about a new release when it doesn't have every little detail done to perfection, forgetting the time when all we had were the old Frog and Airfix kits, needing more putty than cement, and with coke bottle transparencies and very little, if anything in the cockpits and wheel bays...and were glad to have them! I appreciate your posted comment, as it reminded me of that fact; no matter what I said about the Emhar kit, it is a lot better than the other FJ-4 kits, there are aftermarket bits to improve upon it (I have them.) and if it were that hopeless, I would have dumped mine a long time ago, along with my Emhar F-94C's. Would I like to see a better, more state of the art kit of either one? You betcha, but if not, I think I can make a pretty good model of either one. I recall a lot of very negative comments on the Tamiya Spitfires, in both 1/72 and 1/48 scales that to a casual observer would indicate that they were junk, but I have seen in both scales that they have been made into very accurate models- let's face it, if you have the skill (Not sure I do, yet!) and the determination, you can take a pretty difficult kit and make a real beauty out of it. Building one of those "dogs" taught me a lot about model making and I felt a lot more pride and sense of accomplishment when I was able to make a decent model out of one of them. Thanks for bringing me back to ground level, Gene! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, 72modeler said: Would I like to see a better, more state of the art kit of either one? You betcha, but if not, I think I can make a pretty good model of either one. Enjoyed your post! Another challenge with the Emhar FJ-4 kit (as well as the Hasegawa F11F kit alluded to above) is limited availability (esp in US), and that's one of the reasons I'd like to see both of them on Sword's FJ-2/3 follow on to-do list!! Makes sense for Sword to complete the series, I think. Sabrejet and Tommy, among other experts, surely have the references at the ready!!! Gene K 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 4 hours ago, Gene K said: Enjoyed your post! Another challenge with the Emhar FJ-4 kit (as well as the Hasegawa F11F kit alluded to above) is limited availability (esp in US), and that's one of the reasons I'd like to see both of them on Sword's FJ-2/3 follow on to-do list!! Makes sense for Sword to complete the series, I think. Sabrejet and Tommy, among other experts, surely have the references at the ready!!! Gene K As I did yours! If anybody completes the series, I think it would most likely be them. Just wait a while- if past performance is any indication, Hasegawa will put a pair of F-11F's in a box, add some new decals and charge $70+ for them! SJ and TT have been incredible resources for all of us, and not just on the current FJ topics. I finally got my FJ-2 in the mail today and plan to check the wings against my Airfix and Hasegawa F-86D wings, as they are regarded as being the most accurate narrow-chord, standard span slatted Sabre wings. The saga continues! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 1 hour ago, 72modeler said: As I did yours! If anybody completes the series, I think it would most likely be them. Just wait a while- if past performance is any indication, Hasegawa will put a pair of F-11F's in a box, add some new decals and charge $70+ for them! SJ and TT have been incredible resources for all of us, and not just on the current FJ topics. I finally got my FJ-2 in the mail today and plan to check the wings against my Airfix and Hasegawa F-86D wings, as they are regarded as being the most accurate narrow-chord, standard span slatted Sabre wings. The saga continues! Mike Please keep us informed as to your conclusions with respect to the Sabre wings. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Now I am confused! During halftime of the basketball game with our beloved Spurs, I hauled out the kits listed below to see how their wing spans, chords, and main gear tracks compared with the Sword FJ-2, which I finally have in hand. I hope you will both trust my measurements and check them against my findings, if you have access to the same kits. Very interesting but confusing results! I used 37' 1" as the span for the FJ-2, F-86D, and F-86E/F with the slatted, narrow chord wing. For the main gear track, I used 8' 3" for the FJ2/3 and 9' for the F-86E/F/D, with both measurements coming from Tailspin Turtle's posting. I was not able to find a wheel track measurement in any of the references I had, but I did find in a couple of written sources that the FJ2 had its wheel track increased by 8" over the F-86. (Sabrejet- do you have an F-86 wheel track measurement in your references?) The kits I used were the new Sword FJ-2, the Airfix and Hasegawa F-86D's, the Academy/Hobbycraft F-86E, and the Fujimi F-86F (The Fujimi and Academy/Hobbycraft kits have 6-3 wings, but I was using them for wingspan and wheel track, as we all know they are wrong for an FJ-2.) Fujimi: 37' 1" span, 10' wheel track Academy/Hobbycraft: 37' span, 9' 9" wheel track Hasegawa: 36' 6" span, 9' 3" wheel track (The span was a real shocker, as I have never read anything about it being too short!) Airfix: 37' span, 9' 3" wheel track Sword: 37' 3" span, 10' 9" wheel track The Hasegawa and Airfix wings did have the correct chord for the slatted wing, so Sword got that right, Tommy, but the Hasegawa wing was short in span; the wheel tracks were all over the map, but I don't have a figure for the wheel track of either type in my references, so I have no idea which of these are correct- they don't even match the tracks that TT listed in his blog! The Sword kit is very, very good, as you all have indicated, and I see and agree with the errors pointed out in the topic discussions; none of them really blatant and most can be easily fixed, with the possible exception of posing the slats open, but some cutting and transplanting a set of Academy/Hobbycraft/Cutting Edge Sabre slats onto the Sword kit isn't really all that difficult. The wheel track issue has me stumped, and taping the kit parts together, it isn't really noticeable, but maybe TT and/or SJ can help me out there. IF the NAA 3-view drawings are accurate, I can get them enlarged to 1/72 to do some more comparing; I have the Warpaint 1/72 FJ2 scale drawings, but do not know if they are accurate or not. Anyway, for what it's worth, I hope my observations are accurate and will be helpful! Please let me know if I am really off the mark on what I described, as the last thing I want to do is misinform my fellow modelers! Mike BTW, the Spurs won and are 4-0 to start the season! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 25 minutes ago, 72modeler said: Now I am confused! During halftime of the basketball game with our beloved Spurs, I hauled out the kits listed below to see how their wing spans, chords, and main gear tracks compared with the Sword FJ-2, which I finally have in hand. I hope you will both trust my measurements and check them against my findings, if you have access to the same kits. Very interesting but confusing results! I used 37' 1" as the span for the FJ-2, F-86D, and F-86E/F with the slatted, narrow chord wing. For the main gear track, I used 8' 3" for the FJ2/3 and 9' for the F-86E/F/D, with both measurements coming from Tailspin Turtle's posting. I was not able to find a wheel track measurement in any of the references I had, but I did find in a couple of written sources that the FJ2 had its wheel track increased by 8" over the F-86. (Sabrejet- do you have an F-86 wheel track measurement in your references?) The kits I used were the new Sword FJ-2, the Airfix and Hasegawa F-86D's, the Academy/Hobbycraft F-86E, and the Fujimi F-86F (The Fujimi and Academy/Hobbycraft kits have 6-3 wings, but I was using them for wingspan and wheel track, as we all know they are wrong for an FJ-2.) Fujimi: 37' 1" span, 10' wheel track Academy/Hobbycraft: 37' span, 9' 9" wheel track Hasegawa: 36' 6" span, 9' 3" wheel track (The span was a real shocker, as I have never read anything about it being too short!) Airfix: 37' span, 9' 3" wheel track Sword: 37' 3" span, 10' 9" wheel track The Hasegawa and Airfix wings did have the correct chord for the slatted wing, so Sword got that right, Tommy, but the Hasegawa wing was short in span; the wheel tracks were all over the map, but I don't have a figure for the wheel track of either type in my references, so I have no idea which of these are correct- they don't even match the tracks that TT listed in his blog! The Sword kit is very, very good, as you all have indicated, and I see and agree with the errors pointed out in the topic discussions; none of them really blatant and most can be easily fixed, with the possible exception of posing the slats open, but some cutting and transplanting a set of Academy/Hobbycraft/Cutting Edge Sabre slats onto the Sword kit isn't really all that difficult. The wheel track issue has me stumped, and taping the kit parts together, it isn't really noticeable, but maybe TT and/or SJ can help me out there. IF the NAA 3-view drawings are accurate, I can get them enlarged to 1/72 to do some more comparing; I have the Warpaint 1/72 FJ2 scale drawings, but do not know if they are accurate or not. Anyway, for what it's worth, I hope my observations are accurate and will be helpful! Please let me know if I am really off the mark on what I described, as the last thing I want to do is misinform my fellow modelers! Mike BTW, the Spurs won and are 4-0 to start the season! Are you measuring the wheel track (center of wheel to center of wheel) or the distance between the struts? If I measure the Sword kit, I get your 10' 9" as the distance between the struts. The F-86A SAC gives its wheel track as 8.3 feet. The FJ-2/3 SACs gives the wheel track of 9 feet (actually 107.9 inches). The rounded difference is about eight inches. Also see my illustration I think you're referring to here: https://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2011/04/fj23-fury-redux.html Note that you got those wheel track numbers reversed in your second paragraph for the FJs and the F-86s and it was 8.3 feet for the F-86A, not 8' 3" (I wish they'd give these dimensions in inches and tenths of inches or feet and inches instead of feet and tenths of feet); I also checked the F and K SACs and their wheel track was also given as 8.3 feet. Also, the FJ slats were segmented differently from the F-86's because of the wing fold. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Regarding the slight off topic matter of the Emhar FJ-4, IMHO it can be a good base for some extra work. At the same time it was a simple kit even in its days. We may be spoiled today, but even in 1989 when this kit was released the state of the art was on a different level. Really it's a late '70s kit issued 20 years later. That it's still the only game in town is likely an indication of the limited market for such a type, fortunately short run manufacturers can fill exactly this type of market gaps. Should Sword never issue an FJ-4 I'll be happy building another Emhar one (my first was built when my modelling skills were way worse than today) but it will look bad close to the recent FJ-2 and 3. BTW, Revell reportedly also issued this kit but I've never seen one in a Revell box. The Emhar Demon on the other hand is a kit that I'm not sure I'll be able to approach... Ok, I will, but I find their Fury to be nicer. Should Sword consider a Demon I'll put my name on the buyers list immediately. 4 hours ago, Tailspin Turtle said: Are you measuring the wheel track (center of wheel to center of wheel) or the distance between the struts? If I measure the Sword kit, I get your 10' 9" as the distance between the struts. The F-86A SAC gives its wheel track as 8.3 feet. The FJ-2/3 SACs gives the wheel track of 9 feet (actually 107.9 inches). The rounded difference is about eight inches. Also see my illustration I think you're referring to here: https://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2011/04/fj23-fury-redux.html Note that you got those wheel track numbers reversed in your second paragraph for the FJs and the F-86s and it was 8.3 feet for the F-86A, not 8' 3" (I wish they'd give these dimensions in inches and tenths of inches or feet and inches instead of feet and tenths of feet); I also checked the F and K SACs and their wheel track was also given as 8.3 feet. Also, the FJ slats were segmented differently from the F-86's because of the wing fold. That's the beauty of the metric system, there's no chance of such confusions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 (edited) On 10/25/2017 at 11:30 PM, Tailspin Turtle said: Are you measuring the wheel track (center of wheel to center of wheel) or the distance between the struts? If I measure the Sword kit, I get your 10' 9" as the distance between the struts. The F-86A SAC gives its wheel track as 8.3 feet. The FJ-2/3 SACs gives the wheel track of 9 feet (actually 107.9 inches). The rounded difference is about eight inches. Also see my illustration I think you're referring to here: https://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2011/04/fj23-fury-redux.html Note that you got those wheel track numbers reversed in your second paragraph for the FJs and the F-86s and it was 8.3 feet for the F-86A, not 8' 3" (I wish they'd give these dimensions in inches and tenths of inches or feet and inches instead of feet and tenths of feet); I also checked the F and K SACs and their wheel track was also given as 8.3 feet. Also, the FJ slats were segmented differently from the F-86's because of the wing fold. TT- I think I measured center to center on the struts, forgetting that the wheels are inboard on each side and should have allowed for that; good catch! I will correct the track reversal in my original post- it was 11pm CST when I was working on the wings, and my Mk 1a eyeball/brain interface starts to break down! I know the slat segments are different, but was looking at total length and chord, as I will correct the slat segments when I pull the ones from one of my Academy/Hobbycraft kits. I used to teach earth science and wish we used metric as the "official" system; it does get tiresome converting back and forth. I will measure the wheel tracks on the kits again and see what I come up with. Now- for the nagging question all the AMS'ers out there want to ask you but haven't- what is the FS equivalent for the relief tube? Ha! Thank you, Tommy, as always for your input- sorry for my ineptitude! Mike Tommy, I went back and measured the width of the wheels on all the kits- they all came out to 6" in width, which I think might be too small? (I measured from edge to edge of the wheel/tire proper, but did not include the large disc brake assembly on the inboard part of the wheel hub.) Splitting that in half gives 3" inboard from each strut, for a total of 6" less track from my initial and incorrect wheel track observations. Here are the corrected figures, from wheel center to wheel center; I re-measured the distance between the struts, just to be sure, and subtracted 6" from that...still all over the place but a lot closer to the published specs. What do you think? We have an F-86A here at Lackland AB I could measure, but no FJ2/3, with the closest one to me being at Pensacola! Here are my corrected measurements- take the Hasegawa kit with a jaundiced eye, as it's 6" short in span. I hope this helps. 9.75' Sword FJ2 8.75' Airfix F-86D 8.75' Hasegawa F-86D 9.5' Fujimi F-86F 9.025' Academy/Hobbycraft F-86E Edited October 27, 2017 by 72modeler added new measurements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Mike: It was past midnight here. I hope I didn't come across as snarky or superior. I didn't mean to and I really appreciate your contribution. Thanks for the update on the measurements. With respect to the correction from strut center to tire center, I think you also need to add a number to compensate for half the thickness of the strut as well as the clearance between the strut and the tire. However, from the standpoint of wheel tread differences among kits, what you already have is a relative number which suggests that the Fujimi F-86 is an outlier and the Sword tread is in the ballpark. More importantly then, which of those F-86 kits have separate slats that could be used on the FJ wing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Tailspin Turtle said: Mike: It was past midnight here. I hope I didn't come across as snarky or superior. I didn't mean to and I really appreciate your contribution. Thanks for the update on the measurements. With respect to the correction from strut center to tire center, I think you also need to add a number to compensate for half the thickness of the strut as well as the clearance between the strut and the tire. However, from the standpoint of wheel tread differences among kits, what you already have is a relative number which suggests that the Fujimi F-86 is an outlier and the Sword tread is in the ballpark. More importantly then, which of those F-86 kits have separate slats that could be used on the FJ wing? No sir, not in the least snarky or superior- I reckon you have forgotten more about this subject than I will ever know. Your suggestions about getting a more accurate track figure are good ones, and I think puts the FJ-2/3 track within 'acceptable' limits. The Hobbycraft/Academy F-86E/Canadair Sabre kits are the only ones, to my knowledge, that have positionable slats, but both kits have them molded on a 6-3 wing, so their wings can't be used on an FJ-2/early -3 without modification. What I have seen described in build articles is that the 6-3 section is removed behind the edge of the slat well on the HC/AC kit and is grafted onto the wing of the kit you are using, after the corresponding section is removed from that kit. The slats themselves are separate, and are cemented to the slat wells, which have the slat tracks molded onthem. Cutting Edge also made a very nice resin set of slats and slat wells/tracks to be used on the desired kit after removing the corresponding section from the wing, They sold the slats by themselves, and also in a conversion to make an F-86A from an F-86E/F, which had the slats, new rear fuselage with the small fairing for the non all-flying stabilizers, as well as a resin v-shaped windscreen. The CE sets, sadly, have been OOP for a long time. I would think this would be a good seller for one of the aftermarket resin outfits, as it could be used on F-86's as well as FJ-2's. Again, thank you for your assistance to all of us. (Next up is looking at all my Sabre/Fury wheels to see if they are any better than the ones in the Sword kit, which look pretty good.) Mike Edited October 26, 2017 by 72modeler corrected spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 On 10/23/2017 at 2:06 PM, Sabrejet said: Well here's my WIP (which I might post in the WIP section...): SJ, If you decide to move to WIP, please link here so some of us don't miss it! Great work on the opening of panels and preparing the wing folds! In that regard, could you post a picture of the innards of the speed brake well -- I have the resin Hi-Tech 7201 "F-86D Sabre" set that has the brakes (doors) and the wells. The brakes match the pic you posted, having beautiful detail on the back (inside), but I'm not sure about the well details ... so one of your manual pictures would be helpful. Thanks again for this outstanding thread!! Gene K 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 7 minutes ago, Gene K said: SJ, If you decide to move to WIP, please link here so some of us don't miss it! Great work on the opening of panels and preparing the wing folds! In that regard, could you post a picture of the innards of the speed brake well -- I have the resin Hi-Tech 7201 "F-86D Sabre" set that has the brakes (doors) and the wells. The brakes match the pic you posted, having beautiful detail on the back (inside), but I'm not sure about the well details ... so one of your manual pictures would be helpful. Thanks again for this outstanding thread!! Gene K Gene, See FJ-2 thread. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Tailspin Turtle said: More importantly then, which of those F-86 kits have separate slats that could be used on the FJ wing? I have all the kits/sets Mike mentioned, and also have a couple of Hi-Tech sets that I linked last post. That set also has separate slats (as well as speed brakes and flaps!!!), and they match up well with the Sword wing -- the D model slat actuators don't quite line up with the Sword slots, and as you mentioned, the slat sections would have to be rescribed -- both easy fixes!! What I'm thinking about the early FJ-3 slats (I don't have the kit yet) is to cut off the wing camber, file in the slat recess and actuator slots (avoiding the "well", of course), and then use the Hi-Tech slats as above. Actually, scratching the slats isn't that hard, but I have excess F-86 accessories. What do you think? Gene K 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 19 minutes ago, Sabrejet said: See FJ-2 thread. Thanks, I have read that great thread (many times). Regarding the speed brakes, I wasn't specific enough in my question, so here's what I should have asked: The speed brake detail posted in your FJ-3 thread (post#9) shows the inside and outside of the speed brake door, but not the interior of the speed brake well. Also, the well detail in your FJ-2 thread (post#30) is likewise void of detail like hydraulic lines and actuators. So in that regard, do you have any illustrations showing the well interiors (I assume you do since 1) you're the fountainhead and 2) are presently working the wells on your model). I ask since in the Sabre family, speed brake wells varied from side to side as well as by model, but I don't know about the Furies. Appreciate your patience! Gene K 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gene K said: I have all the kits/sets Mike mentioned, and also have a couple of Hi-Tech sets that I linked last post. That set also has separate slats (as well as speed brakes and flaps!!!), and they match up well with the Sword wing -- the D model slat actuators don't quite line up with the Sword slots, and as you mentioned, the slat sections would have to be rescribed -- both easy fixes!! What I'm thinking about the early FJ-3 slats (I don't have the kit yet) is to cut off the wing camber, file in the slat recess and actuator slots (avoiding the "well", of course), and then use the Hi-Tech slats as above. Actually, scratching the slats isn't that hard, but I have excess F-86 accessories. What do you think? Gene K Gene, CMK made three resin detail sets for 1/72 Sabres: 7112 was for the cockpit; 7114 had the speedbrake doors and wells, and the ammo bays/doors (the speedbrake wells are not identical, from one side to the other) and 7113 has the wheelbay and all fairing doors. Red Roo also made a resin wheelbay set for Sabres, IIRC. You can look them up by their stock number to see the contents. I have some, but not all- will have to check my "stash" to see which one/s I have. I figured the F-86 slat segments and actuators in the resin sets wouldn't be an exact match for the FJ-2, but as you stated, will be easy to correct. Does this help? Mike Edited October 26, 2017 by 72modeler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 8 hours ago, Gene K said: Thanks, I have read that great thread (many times). Regarding the speed brakes, I wasn't specific enough in my question, so here's what I should have asked: The speed brake detail posted in your FJ-3 thread (post#9) shows the inside and outside of the speed brake door, but not the interior of the speed brake well. Also, the well detail in your FJ-2 thread (post#30) is likewise void of detail like hydraulic lines and actuators. So in that regard, do you have any illustrations showing the well interiors (I assume you do since 1) you're the fountainhead and 2) are presently working the wells on your model). I ask since in the Sabre family, speed brake wells varied from side to side as well as by model, but I don't know about the Furies. Appreciate your patience! Gene K Gene, It's OK - your post was clear enough but my head wasn't! There is an image on the FJ-2 thread which shows colouring and also a bit of detail but I guess not very clearly. I will repeat them below. However the best images I have are of the War Eagles museum FJ-2, one of which I have posted below (source not known, but I will remove/credit as necessary). Main point is that the actuator is quite distinctive and there's not much else in there. LH and RH are very similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 13 hours ago, Gene K said: I have all the kits/sets Mike mentioned, and also have a couple of Hi-Tech sets that I linked last post. That set also has separate slats (as well as speed brakes and flaps!!!), and they match up well with the Sword wing -- the D model slat actuators don't quite line up with the Sword slots, and as you mentioned, the slat sections would have to be rescribed -- both easy fixes!! What I'm thinking about the early FJ-3 slats (I don't have the kit yet) is to cut off the wing camber, file in the slat recess and actuator slots (avoiding the "well", of course), and then use the Hi-Tech slats as above. Actually, scratching the slats isn't that hard, but I have excess F-86 accessories. What do you think? Gene K I've toyed for a long time with the idea of scratchbuilding slats using brass sheet, as I believe that this allows for a much thinner part and is easy enough to bend to shape. Not tried yet though, considering that I have quite a few slatted Sabre in my stash I should put my acts together and give this a try The Hobbycraft/Academy slats are IMHO quite thick, what are the Hi-Tech ones like ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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