Codger Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 You boys have got your research down to the atomic particles - way ahead of me. If I squint and it looks like what I'm after from across the street - I'm good with it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Dear Codger , for my Mef which you can see now in the " ready for inspection " section I was spending about 80-90 per cent of my time only for the research . And this car still exists ! That´s why we needed such a big thread for unraveling the secrets of our Fiat 1500 cmc . And there are still a lot of unanswered questions ! But research can be a lot of fun , like for an archaeologist if he discovers something new . Many greetings ! Hannes 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albergman Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 3 hours ago, Codger said: You boys have got your research down to the atomic particles - way ahead of me. If I squint and it looks like what I'm after from across the street - I'm good with it. I'll be with you across the street impressive stuff going on here nevertheless! Keep it up. Frank 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 I did it again ! I bought a Protar 806 at an German ebay internet auction . Still full of adrenaline ! It´s an oob build , well constructed with all metal parts but some smaller parts missing ( windscreen , part of fuel cap and part of radiator cap , 2 fasteners for the bonnets ) 221 Euro was a high price but after the restauration it will have a very high value as well . I don´t intend to alter anything , just a restauration with the goal to achieve a standard Protar 806 and 100 per cent complete. I guess I have to buy another Italeri kit but in the end the value should be between 600 and 1500 Euro .This reconstruction has nothing to do with my main construction , it´s just a model for demonstration like Olivier´s oob-build . Of course I will show some pics after the arrival at Wednesday Many greetings ! Hannes 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Dear Harvey, it's a been long time since I had not come on your thread. I was very busy with my 806, Chevy Bel Air and Yak 3 "ready for inspection".. What you show here is really amazing, from the beginning. It is a kind of model making that I would be definitely unable to do today. Go on like that my friend, you're on the good way, I will try to go on looking at your thread despite that I will be busy with my new build and thread... Congrats Hannes for your new Protar 806! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted November 21, 2017 Author Share Posted November 21, 2017 Thank you for your kind comments ,chaps! I'm glad you like! Hannes, congrats on your new arrival....you'll have a garage full of Fiats soon lol! Cheers, H 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Yes , I will be a monopolist soon ! This model seems to be one of the first series from the 70.s .It´s complete besides the fact that there are no numbers on the bonnets . Some smaller parts are broken but they all can get repaired or replaced . The parts seem to be finer compared to the Italeri kit. Most likely the moulds were reworked after a while . Like Olivier I will restore it once my "reality" construction is done . Meanwhile it´s situated in a showcase for protection purposes against dust and cigarette smoke . Many greetings ! Hannes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 Good afternoon chaps! I hope you are all enjoying your weekend and getting some time at the bench! Anyway, I have a bit more progress to share with you. Before going any further on the rear-end chassis-work, I needed to fabricate the drive-train, which plays the central-role of the whole rear-end set up. To make the skeleton, I drilled a 4mm hole through a piece of 5mm brass tube for the lateral shafts, which would then accept a 4mm tube for the longitudinal shaft. I wanted to make the diff. case from metal tube, but I didn't have the correct diameter in the scrap drawer (bin and floor included lol!) The only thing I could find was a part of my old greenhouse...one of those cheapo things where you build up the frame with tubes and plastic T-joints, with a plastic cover that lasts 2mnths if you're lucky...well, the t-joints were the exact diameter, so that sorted that little problem out!It was then just a case of drilling through (4mm) and slotting it all together, solder the cross-piece, then centralise and epoxy the plastic. Unfortunately, the above flair/flange has since "gone walk-about". I built-up the lateral shafts with increasing diam. brass/copper tube so that the pick-up points for the suspension etc could be soldered nice and strong, then the rest is made-up from milliput superfine white. After filing and sanding we now have something resembling a final-drive assembly..... Still a bit of refinement needed here and there, but nothing that another round of of filler and sanding won't sort out! Watch this space! Thanks for watching, guys!! Cheers, H 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 A fine , solid work , dear Harvey ! I guess you will use the elongation for a fixation of the axle . Will you build a construction cradle ? In my opinion a cradle is very useful for adjusting parts like your axles and bodywork . Many greetings ! Hannes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 Thank you Hannes! The sole-purpose of the elongation was purely for structural stability of the ring until everything was lined-upand glued/soldered, but it is ideal for ease of handling at this stage in the proceedings. As for a cradle...yes, my friend, I will be making 2 very shortly. One for ride height/suspension set-up, then, another taller variation to allow the ability to work on the underside. Cheers, H 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted December 3, 2017 Author Share Posted December 3, 2017 Good morning chaps, I hope your weekend is going well. Since the last update, the missing cv-joint flare has turned up and was promptly soldered in place to prevent another escape! The next step was to make the 2 rings/flanges for the left/right drive shafts. For these I used my trusty 0,5mm NiSi sheet. The rings are 24mm o/d and 22mm i/d with 24 holes (0,5mm) in each (25 if you count the big one in the middle). Once set in place with 2part epoxy, the final round of filler and sanding could be achieved. After this, I removed the elongation (see above) and made the breather(?) tube assembly. A 3mm brass tube was mitred, then soldered. Then, a piece of 0,5mm Ni was cut for the back-plate, drilled (3mm) and curved to shape. A small piece of 2mm brass tube was shaped to make a lock-nut and glued in place. t was then just a matter of bending a 1mm brass tube, inserting and epoxying the assembly to it's final resting place. I don't know if the diff was oil or grease lubricated, but I added a flange on the underside to accept a drain plug. Whether this is correct, or not, remains to be seen (or not, as it happens lol), but, if my suspension struggles with the weight, this hole can be utilised to make a support structure of some kind. Well, that's all for now, folks! I hope you enjoy! Thanks for watching! Cheers, H 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 I like your construction , dear Harvey ! And it´s a good idea that you left an option for a firm connection between differential case and bottom sheet because the leaf springs probably won´t be strong enough to carry the weight of your heavy model . For the part with the lever I will be too lazy to construct it from scratch , I will simply cut off this part from the Italeri differential and glue it in place . Great work ! Hannes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted December 3, 2017 Author Share Posted December 3, 2017 Thank you Hannes! I have been scouring the net for pics of twin-barrel Memini carbs and have come across this one from 1938! The year may be wrong, but that doesn't mean it wasn't from '26/27. What do you think???? It's the closest resemblance to our unit! Cheers, H 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 One of the most remarkable construction characteristics of our 806 is the fact , that the carburetor was situated before the compressor and not as usual vice versa . I´m still don´t know exactly why this arrangement was made but I suppose it has something to do with the 1923 patent which made it possible that an ordinary Roots-blower became a compressor ( by cooling down the air before it reaches the combustion chambers ) I also cannot say which carburetor was the model for the Protar designers . It´s possible that your shown carburetor is closer to reality than the Protar version . Many greetings ! Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted December 3, 2017 Author Share Posted December 3, 2017 Thank you for your response, Hannes. I understand your description of the layout. Maybe Fiat designed the compressor to work that way? Who knows! What I can't understand, is the layout of the 451/2 set-up....carb situated at the top of the engine, attached to the head instead of the compressor? It doesn't make sense to my non-mechanical brain! lol!!! Cheers, H 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 The 451 2- stroke engine seems to be more an engine for aeroplanes than for a racing car ! Zerbi was an very keen on experimenting engineer . An tragic event was reported : One of the survey mechanics became deaf while attending the 451 test runs . Drumheads burst . I also doubt that the existing two drawings of the 451 engine represent the real engine . Hanging pistons and carbs with no connection to the big compressor make no sense for me . And cam fairings on the bonnets would make no sense as well . I believe that the real 451 engine looked very different compared to the drawings .Coded plans perhaps ? Many greetings ! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Harvey I see you have been making (machining) circular, angular, straight, precise things. The results look beautiful and your craftsmanship is exemplary. I do like your perseverance. What you've been doing is not easy and many would have given up by now. The fun part (to my taste) yet has to be started though... that wonderful engine Hope you are doing fine health-wise, too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 Thank you for your kind words and wishes, Roy. You are right, it isn't easy, but it's bloody good fun! As for the engine.....that's my favourite part as well. Cheers, H 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpnuts Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Blimey thats amazing work mate. Now ive found this i will be following along. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 Thank you Mr. Nuts!! Glad to have you along matey! Cheers, H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Mr. B, your work is not only exemplary homegrown engineering, it is aesthetically beautiful as well. Although wonderful builds have come from some of the boys here of the 806 kit, I dare say your entirely scratch build will be hugely rewarding to you. A credit to your perseverance and skills. In the matter of jigs or work stands, I offer what worked very well for me. Although these are from ModelMotorcars, they can be easily custom made by you. They are not alignment jigs per se, they are work stands but allow working top and bottom on the chassis including when engine is installed. Just a matter of how high you make them. Here's my lump upside down. By simply lifting the front while pivoting on the rear axle, then swiveling the front stand under, you can work right side up. The bodywork and fenders prohibited the inverted position but that may not be an issue on your stripped-down racer. But it surely was a help and was under the car for over two years during construction. The wheels were mounted finally in the third, and only minor decorative bits were added. Hope there is value for you here... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 Many thanks, Mr C. I was going to create something similar for the work-stands, as they are a very valuable third-hand. Cheers, H 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 Greetings gentlemen! I hope you had a good Crimbo and Santa brought you lots of goodies! Not much has been done since last time, but, I do have a bit of progress to report. I had been a bit unsure as to how I was going to do the sheets on both sides of the fuel-tank support structure. Indeed, it didn't seem logical that there would be vents or louvres, so I went with lightening holes (taking inspiration from the Delage cockpit) instead! Using 0,3mm ally sheet, mini bench drill and my new milling table from Santa, I set to work..... ......and a while later, I ended up with these: ...and temporarily put in place: I'm very pleased with the outcome, even though it will barely be seen once the seat and fuel tank are in place. What do you chaps think? On a side-note, notice how rusty the legs are becoming! Don't worry though, I had planned to strip the chassis and give the legs a good fettling anyway. I hope you enjoy and thanks for following, chaps! More soon. Cheers, H 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heath Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Quote What do you chaps think? Looks great. That rust is surprising, is your workroom a bit damp or suffer from from temperature fluctuations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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