theplasticsurgeon Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) Joining you with this kit TO get as close as i can to this plane Here are the parts And after a bit of painting. This kit has the correct framed canopy, but wrong exhaust. Hopefully I can sculpt a copy of the Airfix exhaust from sprue. This kit was donated specifically for this purpose, and likely to be gifted to a member of the restoration team. Edited August 16, 2017 by theplasticsurgeon New Photo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffB Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Welcome again with your second build of the same aircraft I'm already tripping out on all that yellow plastic! Cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Hemsley Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 (edited) Quote This kit has the correct framed canopy, but wrong exhaust. Actually, it doesn't. Compare the kit canopy to the photo you provide. A Harvard canopy is a 1/2 frame longer than the T-6 Texan canopies and neither the Airfix nor Heller kits offer this. In fact I believe no 72nd Harvard offers a proper Harvard canopy. The Airfix Harvard offers the earlier style Texan canopy with all the framing including bit of extra framing in the sliding portions. while the Heller comes with a later T-6G canopy, which has less framing on the side, but is still a Texan canopy. The difference between the Texan and Harvard can be seen aft of the rear sliding section. The Texan canopy sweeps up immediately while the longer Harvard canopy has that extra 1/2 panel before it sweeps up. The only proper Harvard canopies I've found in 72nd were done by Falcon Klear-Vacs ... not positive of the 'set' number though ... sorry. Google Falcon Klear-Vacs and you' should see a listing of all their sets as well as the instructions for each set. I had examples of both Falcon canopies (Harvard vs Texan) given to me and unfortunately, both canopies are the earlier style with the extra framing on the sliding panels. The good news is that they also appear to be a perfect match in terms of size and x-section, with the Heller later-style canopy, thus allowing you to (in theory) match the rear of the Falcon Harvard canopy with the Heller canopy ... giving you a Harvard IV canopy - which is what the example you're doing is ... in RCAF terms. One nice thing about the Falcon canopy is it includes a portion of the upper rear fuselage thus eliminating the issue of blending the new longer canopy with the kit's rear fuselage. I'll be doing this exact bit of surgery with my own Harvard IV when it hits the worktable. Right now, I'm doing a Harvard II (BCTAP, 1942) with an unmodified Falcon Harvard canopy. At this point, I can say the fit to the Heller kit is fantastic. Scott Edited August 2, 2017 by Scott Hemsley 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 The Falcon Harvard canopy only comes with set no 30 afaics. No individual Squadron sets for this. Steve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTiger66 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 I don't know enough about Harvards to know if any of the parts could be useful, but Kiwi Kits are releasing a 1/72 Harvard II conversion kit soon (RNZAF). http://www.kiwiresin.com/ Best regards TonyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 A proper OOB 1/72 Harvard (with that sweeping rear canopy) is something that is truly missing in this 'golden age' of modelling. Hopefully Airfix will rekindle their desire to model RAF training types and grace us with one in the very near future. Even with a sensible part break-down we could also have the US T-6 versions as well. Just a passing thought - but a good one I reckon!! Cheers.. Dave 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Hemsley Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) TonyT says.... Quote I don't know enough about Harvards to know if any of the parts could be useful, but Kiwi Kits are releasing a 1/72 Harvard II conversion kit soon (RNZAF). It wouldn't surprise me if that Kiwi conversion had a couple of the Falcon Harvard canopies included. Btw it's a Harvard II canopy that Falcon did. Mind you, this canopy would also be perfect for a Yale and a Harvard I - a conversion to be sure, but somebody's got to do it. As I meant to mention above, the only visual difference between the Harvard II canopy and the Harvard IV canopy (as per the OP's build plans) was that the Harvard IV has solid glass panels on the sides of the 3 sections of the canopy whereas the earlier versions had each of the 3 sections divided by an extra vertical frame. The Harvard IV also had a couple of scoops near the cowling, whereas the Harvard II had none. If those scoops are mistakenly included as separate pieces ala the Heller kit, there's no reason that a post-war Harvard IV can't be done from this pending Kiwi kit - apart from having to correct the canopy. If you 're lucky enough to find a copy of "Harvard! The North American trainers in Canada" by David C. Fletcher & Doug MacPhail (ISBN 0-9693825-0-2) either in a library, eBay or 2nd hand ... I highly recommend it. It covers in depth, all versions from the NA-26 and the Yale through to the Harvard IV in text, photos & 72nd drawings. As an aside .... Dave Fletcher was IPMS/Canada at the time of writing, so you also get that modeller's perspective in the choice of photos and the multi-view drawings. As for the longer exhaust pipe pointed out by the OP. There's a few lengths of sprue within the Heller parts trees that will suit the job quite nicely and if one looks at photos of a Harvard II/IV, you'll see it's a much simpler affair than what Airfix has provided in their kit. The main hassle with the Heller kit and maybe the Academy kit as well (I dunno) is that since the Heller kit is of an armed T-6G, location stubs(blocks?) are molded in relief on the underside of the wings for the zero-length rocket-launchers and the MG pods. It makes for some creative sanding or work with a No.11 blade shaving the blocks off, if one doesn't wish to rescribe the entire kit. Mind you, it can be done!! Scott Edited August 4, 2017 by Scott Hemsley 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaddad Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 2 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said: Just a passing thought - but a good one I reckon!! Cheers.. Dave So do I. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 6 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said: Just a passing thought - but a good one I reckon!! Cheers.. Dave Me too. Steve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplasticsurgeon Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 Pulled the airframe together tonight. This is the best of the builds I'm currently doing. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplasticsurgeon Posted August 3, 2017 Author Share Posted August 3, 2017 Now the history of this particular kit. Bought from John at IPMS Gloucester in 2013. He was selling off bereaved stock from an Estate. This one cost £2 - paid for by a colleague of mine, who want's me to make it for his father's friend. Originally I wasn't quite sure what that Canadian Car&Foundry built Harvard looked like, so I wanted to cover all bases. An Airfix/Heller hybrid was possible. Now I'm just building both! Tonight I fixed the tailplanes. I've Tipexed the seams, and wiped them flush - hoping to airbrush over the weekend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Hemsley Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) Quote Originally I wasn't quite sure what that Canadian Car&Foundry built Harvard looked like, so I wanted to cover all bases. An Airfix/Heller hybrid was possible Quick answer ... kinda identical to your kits. For the purpose of the OP's build, the Heller kit of a T-6G is definitely the kit to go with as it's already virtually identical* to a Harvard IV - no need for any kit-bashing. The ONLY 2 changes to the Heller kit (to be technically correct) is the longer canopy, but you'd have to do that to any true Harvard as all kits to date, have the shortened Texan canopy. and the fabrication of lengthened exhaust (which is btw, visibly different than that in the Airfix kit). FWIW ... Noorduyn was the only Canadian manufacturer of the Harvard in WW2. It was during WW2, that the CCF came under the administrative wing of Noorduyn since they both shared the airfield facilities at Cartierville (gov't owned airport near Montreal). They (CCF) only became involved with the Harvard post-war, when they got the exclusive contract to over-haul all Harvard II airframes and upgrade many to Harvard IV status for the NATO-related training that was still being carried on in Canada. The early North American-built Harvard's were generally distinguishable by twin venture tubes on the starboard side and a stepped pitot tube. By August 1938, Noorduyn (based in Montreal) had forged a deal with North American. North American had been providing Harvard's to the BCTAP, but by 1940, Noorduyn got it's first Harvard contact from the RCAF for the Harvard II. Unlike the North American-built Harvard's, their Harvard II's had no venture tubes due to the use of 'vacuum pumps' and a straight pitot tube. . (condensed from Dave Fletcher's book I mentioned above) *One thing to point out - it's a minor panel detail ... but all Harvard's had a long rectangle luggage door on the port side, unlike the Texan which exhibited an similar luggage door but with a 'chipped corner' on the lower front. Scott Edited August 4, 2017 by Scott Hemsley 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplasticsurgeon Posted August 5, 2017 Author Share Posted August 5, 2017 Dryfitted engine (RADIAL). Seams done with Tipex, I'm about to go out airbrushing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplasticsurgeon Posted August 5, 2017 Author Share Posted August 5, 2017 So morning in the paint facility, and an application of Humbrol 69. Drying on window-sills since then, and still tacky now. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplasticsurgeon Posted August 7, 2017 Author Share Posted August 7, 2017 Decals From my spares Gannet and Tornado leftovers 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Nice looking so far. I am currently about to finish a refurb of the original Airfix and an Academy one as a T-6 G that I flew in from Shoreham. I just NEED the number 10 in black for the cowling. ( I did post in the wanted column my need for undercart legs but no luck so I have put the wheels up and will display it on an old Airfix stand As for the canopy styles I too very much wish for the longer one in any new kit!1 Aeroclub did a range in 72nd and I have about four of them plust the Falcon vac ones. But even the 1/48th kits by Occidental/Italeri don't give the right canopy despite one being issued with RCAF/RAF decals. The Monogram one is nice but again the canopy is only for the T-6. Again I have a Monogram one on build at the moment thats only primed but not so far gone that its too late to enter in the radial GB so I may well go and do that. Markings from a Belcher bits set with very early' rounded' rudder in resin that is going spare if anyone wants it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplasticsurgeon Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 Side codes BF070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplasticsurgeon Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 Wet day - hence canopy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplasticsurgeon Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 Gear, this particular aircraft had no gear doors - so left off for time being. and prop 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplasticsurgeon Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 Exhaust crafted from a piece of sprue. Landing lights, and prop added If no other additions occur to me by the end of the week - that will be this one completed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffB Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 A nice job with the sprue exhaust and with the build overall Cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplasticsurgeon Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) Declaring completion. Off to my colleague over the weekend. Edited August 18, 2017 by theplasticsurgeon New Photo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Amazing how good the old Heller kit can still look with a bucketful of TLC! Great modelling! Just a small query: on the port fuselage side, I would have thought that the order of the codes would have been similar to the starboard side, therefore avoiding the end of 070 to be located under the horizontal stabilizer. What so you think? Well done!!! JR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplasticsurgeon Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 There are photos of the actual plane, stbd and port on this and my Airfix threads. The underlap was solely because letters from my spares decals are a fraction tooo big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplasticsurgeon Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) So now for some thoughts on the HellerTexan kit. Good seats and interior, scores better than Airfix. Light surface detail, that omits rivets - BUT they're on the real plane! Canopy is that half-frame short, and you could add extras for the Harvard look. Short exhaust, optional spinner, some nav aids behind the cockpit area. Better than Airfix - but not the best I've seen. And here with the Airfix model with Airfix in the lead. And now Heller as lead. Edited August 19, 2017 by theplasticsurgeon More info 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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