tempestfan Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 A friend asked me whether I'd ever heard of 105 Sq Mosquitoes in Day Fighter Scheme, with Sky bands and yellow leading edges. He told me this scheme was reported in a Mike Bowyer book (Bombing Colours ?) being in use up tp max July 42 and illustrated with a Profile, but no photos there, and my friend said he'd been unable to locate any on the net. As I am not intimate with the Mossie, but many around here are: Any confirmation re that scheme, and if so, possibly pointers to any books or mags featuring pics ? TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango98 Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 I've a copy of an order/directive here which covers that very subject. I'll dig it out later today if it would be of help. Cheers Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted July 28, 2017 Author Share Posted July 28, 2017 Dave, that is a most generous offer !!! To spare you the work in case he is just after a pic, I'll ask him first. Most highly appreciated ! Cheerio ! Claus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 There are lots and lots of photos of 105 Sq Mossies in this scheme: should be in pretty well every book on the Mossie. The first few were in Temperate Land, there apparently was some experimentation early on, but by the time the aircraft was publicly announced the DFS was standardised. For modellers the best book is the Guideline publication on Mosquito bombers and PR variants. There is also a history of 105 Sq's time on Mosquitos called (IIRC) Mosquito Thunder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Hello I think Claus' friend is interested in Sky Fighter Command band and Sky spinners, Graham. I have seen colour profiles for three different 105 Sqn. Mosquitos B Mk.IV with Sky band so far, but not a single photo. The only WWII photo of a Mosquito in combat squadron service (there are several such photos of RCAF training Mosquitos B Mk.XX in Canada) with Sky band and spinners, presumably also in DFS, is the photo of Mosquito FB Mk.VI from 613 Sqn., just taking off, published in an ancient De Havilland Mosquito Aircam book. Still, I would not complain if a squadron service photo of a Mosquito B.IV in such a scheme surfaces. Cheers Jure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 That is exactly what I meant. If all else fails, try the old Profile on the Mk.IV. When the type was announced, there was a large press photo-shoot of 105 Sq and the photos from this have appeared pretty well everywhere. I am astonished by this apparent lack of knowledge of them. Look in the books I mention above. Look in the Profile - and surely the Warpaint too. I physically cannot reach my references at the moment or I could give a long list. Try the PSL Bombing Colours. Ian Allan's books on bombers that followed the Ducimus series. Surely there are photos in Osprey's book on Mosquito bombers? That's without looking into the two Mosquito Portfolios, the Kite book on Mosquito bombers, iof Bowyer's classic on the aircraft from Faber. These are from memory only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango98 Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Hi Claus, I've just emailed you scans of the Bomber Command order. If you'd like to post the copies here in this thread it is ok to do so. Cheers Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Hello I found a colour profile another 105 Sqn. B.IV with Sky band, without a photo of course. I checked Ducimus and Profile publications, and while they include five or six photos from presentation Graham mentioned, there is no Sky colour in sight, except on squadron code letters. I found three photos of two different 305 (Polish) Sqn. Mosquitos FB.VI, complete with Sky bands and Sky spinners in AJ press book. Still, a frustratingly low number of such photos, especially as I took operational Mosquitos with Sky band for granted. I hope this does not turn out the way the story about reinforcing streak on the Mosquito fuselage had. Cheers Jure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 I've a fair reference library on the Mosquito and I can't recall seeing a photo of a B.IV with the sky band, spinners and yellow wing leading edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
303sqn Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Profile 209 has two photos of B.IVs with Sky bands and spinners. Page 93 DK290/G Trial installation of Highball weapon. Page 85 DK291 crashed at Hatfield. No codes but did serve with 105 Squadron. http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Profiles/Aircraft-Profiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 16 minutes ago, 303sqn said: Profile 209 has two photos of B.IVs with Sky bands and spinners. Page 93 DK290/G Trial installation of Highball weapon. Page 85 DK291 crashed at Hatfield. No codes but did serve with 105 Squadron. http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Profiles/Aircraft-Profiles 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 I must admit not swearing to the yellow leading edges. As the Mosquitos were never intended to go head-to-head with other fighters perhaps they were omitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango98 Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 As per the order of 9 Feb 1942, IMHO, the early B IVs with the sky band as per DK 291 were finished in DE/DG/Sky with a number of the later ones circa mid 42 being finished as per the order which hopefully Claus will post here shortly on my behalf. This also addresses the yellow leading edge markings. Cheers Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Hello The issue of paint scheme of early Mosquito bombers is being discussed at length in SAM's Combat Colours series publication. The purpose of Fighter Command colours and markings on Bomber Command aircraft was to keep the enemy guessing up to fairly short distance whether he is approaching an unarmed bomber or heavily armed fighter-bomber. A discussion is supplemented with one profile and two three-view colour drawings, with the profile and one three-view drawings showing aircraft in TFS and the second set of three-view drawings depicting 105 Sqn. Mosquito B Mk.IV in Mixed Gray and Dark Green over Sea Gray Medium with Sky spinners, fuselage band and with wing leading edges in yellow quick-recognition markings. In captions it is said that drawings are based on eye-witness accounts and official documents from that time, but should be considered provisional, as there are no known photos to support them. While these are sound arguments, I would still like to see a photo of actual aircraft in Fighter Command scheme. Pity nobody bothered to take a snapshot or two of Mosquitos, taking part in operation Millennium. Cheers Jure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 There are at least two photos of early Mosquitos in unusual colour schemes (or the same unusual scheme) in the Guideline/Combat Colours book, one being the PR aircraft that landed in Switzerland. If you don't accept the book's conclusions about these aircraft then some other theory is required - I know of none. (It is infuriating, not being able to dig out the books and quote page numbers.) My recollection is that the DE/DG/Sky scheme and the non-standard scheme only applied to very early examples. To my eye the photo of DK291 above shows the Day Fighter scheme well - I believe that there was a difference in the upper/lower surface demarcations with TLS on the earliest aircraft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junchan Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 9 hours ago, tango98 said: Hi Claus, I've just emailed you scans of the Bomber Command order. If you'd like to post the copies here in this thread it is ok to do so. Cheers Dave Hi Dave, I have been interested in the day fighter scheme of early B.IV too. Could you e-mail me scans of the Bomber Command order please? I would appreciate your attention in advance. My e-mail address is j.ohizumi(at)gmail(dot)com Best regards, Jun in Tokyo https://www.flickr.com/photos/horaburo/albums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted July 29, 2017 Author Share Posted July 29, 2017 Good morning all, many thanks for your combined digging efforts, and especially to Dave for sending the scans - most highly appreciated! !! I'll look for a photo host today and then try to post the order. I was in dreamland already when the discussion picked up speed, but had a quick flick through some books yesterday. Not unexpectedly, Air Britain's Squadrons and DA/DZ yielded nothing. Sharp/Bowyer has no pics but a page (203) of drawings, with notes that seem a bit contradictory to me. As I read them, band and spinner were specified for TLS but discontinued when DFS was introduced around mid 42. However, DK292 is illustrated in DFS with bands and spinners, but without the yellow LEs. 292 also seems to be the subject of the profile in Bombing Colours, so probably is the machine Mike Bowyer took notes of. I have a book by Holliday, which IIRC is focused on Canadian use, Wooden Wonder and perhaps one or two others upstairs to search through - but with slim hopes for a conclusive pic. Thanks again to all ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudioN Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 'Bombing Colours 1937-1973', by M.J.F. Bowyer includes the picture of crash-landed DK291. The yellow wing leading edge band is visible. The profile in the same book is for Mosquito IV Series II DK292 GB-B. Unlike DK291 in the picture, this one is drawn with 'C1 type' fuselage roundel and narrow white stripe on the fin flash. No underwing roundel. The caption says it served with No. 105 Sqn. from June to October 1942. Quoting from Bowyer: "Sky spinners and tail bands making the bombers look like fighters were therefore introduced, and some Mosquitoes even had the yellow wing leading edges. These features were only retained until July 1942. They were a nuisance on low-level operations, making the aircraft too easily visible". HTH Claudio 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 In advance of the actual order being posted, I can add that aircraft already camouflaged were to retain their existing scheme but have the Fighter Command markings applied. The Sky trim was to be present on aircraft received from the factories but the yellow leading edge was to be added at unit level. The order was dated 9th February 1942. Given the secrecy applied to the Mosquito, and that the tail band was removed by July, it perhaps isn't too surprising that photos should be rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 Well... sometimes life gets in the way. Sorry Dave for not being quicker, again many thanks for the Scans, which are here: Hope I will get back to active posting, after almost six months... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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