Please help me make up my mind: H&S Infinity or Iwata HP-CP

[little-cars]

Tim,   It's a bit like cars, if there was one model that was perfect one for everyone, we'd all have the same.

There is always brand loyalty if you've had a good experience.  

I've used a number of brush makes over the years & left a lot of them behind for one reason or another.  

 

To me, some I thought some were outdated and old fashioned, some poorly thought through as a product, some over priced, some not very flexible.

 

It's a bit like tea or coffee, you find the one's you like, then stick with them.

Another good reason to try (if you can) before you buy.

 

Paul

[sinnerboy]

Get a Badger mate, it will save all the arguments

 

 

BTW I drive ( badly ) an Iwata HP-C something or other with a MAC valve, has been good but can't compare as never had a HS, not a lot of help that really...sorry! 

[Ratch]

I have an Iwata HPC+ very nice (and expensive at £175), gets down to a nice fine line. As Paul says, spares can be expensive too.

 

 

I also have this Aerograph - a clone of the HPC+ (but cheaper at £30), and almost as good. I've had it for more than 5 years and never had a problem with it - not that a deep-clean won't solve.

[Peter Marshall]

2 hours ago, little-cars said:

 

No reason to have a spongy trigger on the Infinity. You can alter the trigger settings very simpy.  There is a little nut in the open handle that changes the tension on the spring behind the trigger to give more or less resistance when you pull the trigger back. You can also change the tension on the air valve plunger bu screwing the flat screw on it's base in  and out a little.

 

On the damaged nozzle, I don;t know of any airbrush manufacturer that warranties consumables.  Airbrush warranties normally only cover manufacturing defects..

 

Paul 

 

That's fine but I got ZERO guarantee support on the nozzle which HAD A MANUFACTURER DEFECT - it sheered off at the thread - independently verified by a metallurgist that there's a material defect. Unsurprisingly I have a very poor opinion of Iwata's importers in the U.K. after that, as all they offered was to sell me a new nozzle. If it's defective after spraying for under 2 hours it's not good.

[little-cars]

You could always go up a level to Iwata directly if you are that certain it was a manufacturing defect.

Search for  Iwata Medea

 

Paul

[mollythedog]

I had a Iwata Revolution go really bad,but as I had bought mine off the net, in the US I think, I had no chance with a warranty. Sent mine back directly to Iwata in Japan,with a covering letter. Never heard from them again, or the airbrush. Now THAT is service........

 

I really like my HP/B and it is a lovely little tool that has been really great. I had to buy mine in Hamburg as before the internet there was no supplier that I was aware of,in the UK. It cost an arm and a leg.and a few teeth as well. I think they have been trading off their good name for some years now, and if you get a "good" one they are great, but otherwise.....but it is a very personal choice,and there are so many variables that it really is,with the best will in the World, impossible to advise someone on the "best".  Air source.pressure.humidity,make type and thinning of paint,subject matter and colour, the list goes on and on and then there is "feel", budget, availability etc. The only way is "test driving", to stay with the car analogy. Try as many as you can and choose on what suits you,for whatever reasons you feel are important to YOU. 

 

I did think that a good quality wax might work on the nozzle thread but used a tiny dab of copper grease usually sold for car brakes,as this deposits tiny amounts of copper on the threads that stay put and are unlikely to dissolve in any solvents that pass through the brush. 

 

HTH

 

mtd

[Ilie Mihai]

At the moment the most important thing for me is which one is going to give me better control as a beginner . From what I've read you can pull the same detail with both of them with the 0.2mm needle..I got this...but which one has a better trigger. What do people mean when they say that for the H&S Infinity the trigger is a bit spongy?

Best regards!

[little-cars]

3 hours ago, Ilie Mihai said:

At the moment the most important thing for me is which one is going to give me better control as a beginner . From what I've read you can pull the same detail with both of them with the 0.2mm needle..I got this...but which one has a better trigger. What do people mean when they say that for the H&S Infinity the trigger is a bit spongy?

Best regards!

 

That depends on your definition of better.  Do you want a tight trigger or a sloppy one, different people prefer different setups.

 

Both are good, the H&S brush allows you to setup the trigger to your liking, there isn't any adjustment on the Iwata.

 

Paul

[Ilie Mihai]

Okay so first of all I want to thank all of you for responding and helping a newbie.

 

For me it doesn't really matter the brand. It can be H&S or Iwata. (those two are the only two brand available to me).  What I want is something good that won't make me feel like maybe I should have got the other one. I know it's hard without trying them both..but max I can get is: hold them both in my hand and that's pretty much it. Stores won't let me try using them....and there is no one I know owning any one of those two. And even if I would hold them in my hand I wouldn't know what to look for. That's why I am asking you guys.

 

I saved money really hard to purchase one of those two ( you have no idea how many KFC meals I skipped ). 

 

What features has the H&S Infinity that the Iwata HP-C+ doesn't and vice versa? Which one will give me more for my money? If I were to buy one I would buy any of them with a 0.2mm needle...just to keep that in mind. As far as I've read online I should be able to get the same exact results with both. But which one is going to help me get better? Which one is easier to learn to work with? Which one gives me the certainty that when I pull back the trigger paint will start getting out always the same.

 

Is one wearing faster than the other? I do not know where exactly but I've read somewhere online that Iwatas get better overtime while H&S brushes lose quality over time. Is that true?

 

Also...them holding up over time is also something very important as I do not know when I will be able to get a new airbrush. 

 

Now...Paul...when we are talking about a trigger having a spongy feeling are we talking about pressing it down or pulling it back? Because the whole time I thought we are talking about pulling it back. 

 

 

I am afraid I got into an infinite loop. I am considering the Iwata then someone explains something and then I consider the Infinity...and so on.

 

Basically if you could read the logs in my head it would be somthing like this:

 

Went to the scale models shop -> the guy convinced me to get the Infinity (he said both are good but the Infinity is easier to clean and is easier to maintain since you won't risk damaging the nozzle so bad. Also it comes with 2 cups and with another 0.4mm needle/nozzle)

 

Went to the arts shop -> the guy thee explained that the Iwata is way better. Built better...feels better in the hand. He also said that the H&S are known to damage over time and get really bad. 

 

Wrote online -> People are telling me that both are good...some of them tell me to get the Infinity some of them tell me to get the Iwata.

 

I wanted the Infinity at first because it has that bigger nozzle that doesn't have to be screwed in..because it has that quick fix feature ...and because it was used by one of the guys I look up to: Plasmo.

Then I read online and everybody seems to be praising Iwata so I thought about getting the HP-C+ in the 0.2mm variant since it seems also good for fine details. Also another youtuber that I like a lot is using a HP-C airbrush.

I like the quick fix handle because in my mind it will let me always have the same line when I want to do details such as pre shading. But then again..I am thinking about feeling let down by the Infinity if the trigger is not so responsive...for example if it feels like it should give out paint but it doesn't and if it is inconsistent. (one time at one point it gives paint but other time at the same point it doesn't)

 

Please assist me more. 

 

 

Best regards!

Edited July 27, 2017 by Ilie Mihai

[tank152]

1 hour ago, Ilie Mihai said:

Okay so first of all I want to thank all of you for responding and helping a newbie.

 

For me it doesn't really matter the brand. It can be H&S or Iwata. (those two are the only two brand available to me).  What I want is something good that won't make me feel like maybe I should have got the other one. I know it's hard without trying them both..but max I can get is: hold them both in my hand and that's pretty much it. Stores won't let me try using them....and there is no one I know owning any one of those two. And even if I would hold them in my hand I wouldn't know what to look for. That's why I am asking you guys.

 

I saved money really hard to purchase one of those two ( you have no idea how many KFC meals I skipped ). 

 

What features has the H&S Infinity that the Iwata HP-C+ doesn't and vice versa? Which one will give me more for my money? If I were to buy one I would buy any of them with a 0.2mm needle...just to keep that in mind. As far as I've read online I should be able to get the same exact results with both. But which one is going to help me get better? Which one is easier to learn to work with? Which one gives me the certainty that when I pull back the trigger paint will start getting out always the same.

 

Is one wearing faster than the other? I do not know where exactly but I've read somewhere online that Iwatas get better overtime while H&S brushes lose quality over time. Is that true?

 

Also...them holding up over time is also something very important as I do not know when I will be able to get a new airbrush. 

 

Now...Paul...when we are talking about a trigger having a spongy feeling are we talking about pressing it down or pulling it back? Because the whole time I thought we are talking about pulling it back. 

 

 

 

Please assist me more. 

 

 

Best regards!

Hi,

First of all regardless of make which feels best in your hands? Go back to the shops and handle them both again,  you're about to spend a lot of money so don't rush into it. You've read good things about both but that Iwatas are better made, I'd certainly agree with that. When you handle them you should be able to tell that. The Iwata is far more sturdy. 

With the Iwata you get a high quality airbrush with no fancy gimmicks, you get a pre set handle and you can tension the pull back on the trigger and that's it. Paul has mentioned that the Airbrush cup is fairly large but personally I don't think that makes any difference whatsoever.  one of my Iwatas have got the smaller cup so I use both sizes. The trigger action to me has a more positive feel and is far smoother than the H&S. This is something you should be able to tell when you handle them next. The Iwata has Teflon seals which is important if you're going to be using lacquer based paints such as Mr Color and Mr Paint.

The spares are more expensive for Iwatas but they're that well built you won't needing many of those. I know I upset someone who posted in this thread by saying it's human error that is the course of almost all airbrush problems but that's the truth.

The H & S airbrush is lighter and personally I think the quality has been compromised by the addition of features that aren't really required, 2 cup sizes, 2 needle/nozzles, it as a pre set handle the same as the Iwata. H&S have a reputation for eating seals at a alarming rate, they never had Teflon seals which is no doubt why. Paul will be able to say if this has now changed. People say it is easier to strip down H & S airbrushes that is maybe true however I don’t see the need to be forever stripping brushes down and when I do I've never had a problem doing so with my Iwatas. One thing I would recommend you treating yourself to if you purchase the Iwata is the small socket spanner for the nozzle and not use the spanner included in the box.

Like I've said previously I own 5 Iwatas the oldest being the HP-CH and the only thing I've ever changed is a needle for the CH and that's only because I dropped the original one.

That's about all I can say myself.

Good luck!

[Ilie Mihai]

7 minutes ago, tank152 said:

Hi,

First of all regardless of make which feels best in your hands? Go back to the shops and handle them both again,  you're about to spend a lot of money so don't rush into it. You've read good things about both but that Iwatas are better made, I'd certainly agree with that. When you handle them you should be able to tell that. The Iwata is far more sturdy. 

With the Iwata you get a high quality airbrush with no fancy gimmicks, you get a pre set handle and you can tension the pull back on the trigger and that's it. Paul has mentioned that the Airbrush cup is fairly large but personally I don't think that makes any difference whatsoever.  one of my Iwatas have got the smaller cup so I use both sizes. The trigger action to me has a more positive feel and is far smoother than the H&S. This is something you should be able to tell when you handle them next. The Iwata has Teflon seals which is important if you're going to be using lacquer based paints such as Mr Color and Mr Paint.

The spares are more expensive for Iwatas but they're that well built you won't needing many of those. I know I upset someone who posted in this thread by saying it's human error that is the course of almost all airbrush problems but that's the truth.

The H & S airbrush is lighter and personally I think the quality has been compromised by the addition of features that aren't really required, 2 cup sizes, 2 needle/nozzles, it as a pre set handle the same as the Iwata. H&S have a reputation for eating seals at a alarming rate, they never had Teflon seals which is no doubt why. Paul will be able to say if this has now changed. People say it is easier to strip down H & S airbrushes that is maybe true however I don’t see the need to be forever stripping brushes down and when I do I've never had a problem doing so with my Iwatas. One thing I would recommend you treating yourself to if you purchase the Iwata is the small socket spanner for the nozzle and not use the spanner included in the box.

Like I've said previously I own 5 Iwatas the oldest being the HP-CH and the only thing I've ever changed is a needle for the CH and that's only because I dropped the original one.

That's about all I can say myself.

Good luck!

 

Hey!

 

Thank you for you answer!

 

Do you think there is a big difference between the Iwata's pre set handle and the quick fix for the H&S airbrush? How can you tell exactly that you get the same line with the Iwata since you do not have the presets like on the Infinity. Also Paul said "Both are good, the H&S brush allows you to setup the trigger to your liking, there isn't any adjustment on the Iwata." What's this adjustment that is missing from the HP-CP?

 

I will for sure go to the shops and handle them. At the moment they don't have either of them in stock but in less than one weeks they should be there. What should I look at once they are in my hand? What should I pay attention to?

 

"You can tension the pull back on the trigger" what's the difference between this and what Paul said about what you can do with the H&S? On the H&S you can also tension the push?

 

I am waiting for your answer.

 

Best regards!

 

 

 

 

 

[tank152]

6 minutes ago, Ilie Mihai said:

 

Hey!

 

Thank you for you answer!

 

Do you think there is a big difference between the Iwata's pre set handle and the quick fix for the H&S airbrush? How can you tell exactly that you get the same line with the Iwata since you do not have the presets like on the Infinity. Also Paul said "Both are good, the H&S brush allows you to setup the trigger to your liking, there isn't any adjustment on the Iwata." What's this adjustment that is missing from the HP-CP?

 

I will for sure go to the shops and handle them. At the moment they don't have either of them in stock but in less than one weeks they should be there. What should I look at once they are in my hand? What should I pay attention to?

 

"You can tension the pull back on the trigger" what's the difference between this and what Paul said about what you can do with the H&S? On the H&S you can also tension the push?

 

I am waiting for your answer.

 

Best regards!

 

 

 

 

 

With the H&S I'm sure the pre set handle has some kind of pre determined settings once this is set apparently if you need to strip your airbrush down the settings won't be altered. 

You can't lock the pre set handle on the Iwata, again I've never found that a problem. 

With the H&S you can alter the tension on the trigger both on the down for air and the pull back for paint flow.

[Ilie Mihai]

18 minutes ago, tank152 said:

With the H&S I'm sure the pre set handle has some kind of pre determined settings once this is set apparently if you need to strip your airbrush down the settings won't be altered. 

You can't lock the pre set handle on the Iwata, again I've never found that a problem. 

With the H&S you can alter the tension on the trigger both on the down for air and the pull back for paint flow.

 

Thanks again for your fast answer!

 

One more question: didn't the Infinity get the Teflon seals with the CR Plus version?

 

Best regards!

[PDH]

6 minutes ago, Ilie Mihai said:

 

Thanks again for your fast answer!

 

One more question: didn't the Infinity get the Teflon seals with the CR Plus version?

 

Best regards!

Yes it did, the post above contains a lot of incorrect info re the Infinity CR Plus.

 

The poster is fairly obviously Iwata biased. You need to try both airbrushes and see which you feel most comfortable with. I have both Iwata and H&S Infinity CR Plus and for me it's the H&S every time.

Easier to clean and take apart. Never need to change the needle/nozzle, the .2 is good for almost everything. The art of airbrushing is about paint, air pressure and distance, not needle size!!

Edited July 27, 2017 by PDH
Spelling

[tank152]

1 hour ago, Ilie Mihai said:

 

Thanks again for your fast answer!

 

One more question: didn't the Infinity get the Teflon seals with the CR Plus version?

 

Best regards!

Hopefully Paul will be able to help you with that question. All Iwatas apart from the Eclipse range are fitted with Teflon seals.

I must say that your English is very good.

[tank152]

1 hour ago, PDH said:

Yes it did, the post above contains a lot of incorrect info re the Infinity CR Plus.

 

The poster is fairly obviously Iwata biased. You need to try both airbrushes and see which you feel most comfortable with. I have both Iwata and H&S Infinity CR Plus and for me it's the H&S every time.

Easier to clean and take apart. Never need to change the needle/nozzle, the .2 is good for almost everything. The art of airbrushing is about paint, air pressure and distance, not needle size!!

Please correct me then would love to know what wrong information I've posted? It would be helpful to the OP as well. The only thing maybe is that the CR hasn't got Teflon seals, and I did point out I wasn't sure and Paul would to be the best one to ask.

Of Course I'm Iwata biased, I like quality products that do the job without problems. I'm a tradesman and have always used tools that are well built that are made to last.

I just don't get this nonsense about Iwatas being difficult to clean I really don't, why do folk feel the need to to continually removing nozzles anyway? 

If that's the best reason to buy a H&S then it doesn't really say much for the quality of them. My opinion.

[PDH]

1 hour ago, tank152 said:

I like quality products that do the job without problems. I'm a tradesman and have always used tools that are well built that are made to last.

I just don't get this nonsense about Iwatas being difficult to clean I really don't, why do folk feel the need to to continually removing nozzles anyway? 

If that's the best reason to buy a H&S then it doesn't really say much for the quality of them. My opinion.

 

 

Well we all like quality tools that do the job and in some people's opinion H&S airbrushes are as good or better than Iwata's. Just as in your opinion Iwata's are better. If you are going to criticise a product then please use your experience of that product, facts not opinion. I cannot comment re an Iwata even though I own one I simply don't/won't use it. I find it too heavy and bulky. The fixed cup is too large and gets in the way of close in work.

 

Ilie has asked for information so he can make an informed decision. You bias towards Iwata may make him make totally the wrong choice for HIM. As I and others said he needs to try them both and see which he prefers.

I wish I'd done that before buying my Iwata HP-CS. Nice airbrush but just not for me.

 

Oh by the way 2 cup sizes is extremely useful and the 2 in 1 aspect merely refers to the fact that you get two cups and two needle sets in the box. Personally I'd just go for an H&S Infinity CR Plus with a .2 needle and maybe the 2ml cup and save some money.

[tank152]

19 minutes ago, PDH said:

 

 

Well we all like quality tools that do the job and in some people's opinion H&S airbrushes are as good or better than Iwata's. Just as in your opinion Iwata's are better. If you are going to criticise a product then please use your experience of that product, facts not opinion. I cannot comment re an Iwata even though I own one I simply don't/won't use it. I find it too heavy and bulky. The fixed cup is too large and gets in the way of close in work.

 

Ilie has asked for information so he can make an informed decision. You bias towards Iwata may make him make totally the wrong choice for HIM. As I and others said he needs to try them both and see which he prefers.

I wish I'd done that before buying my Iwata HP-CS. Nice airbrush but just not for me.

 

Oh by the way 2 cup sizes is extremely useful and the 2 in 1 aspect merely refers to the fact that you get two cups and two needle sets in the box. Personally I'd just go for an H&S Infinity CR Plus with a .2 needle and maybe the 2ml cup and save some money.

Well if uou'd have taken the time to fully read this thread and my posts you'd have noticed I based my opinion on the H&S from my many times trying them out at shows, I know Paul very well.

You make me laugh you say that about me and them proceed to say you don’t won't use it as it's to heavy!!!!

Again I've already mentioned the Iwata is the heavier brush, which is what I prefer.

The OP has had plenty of good advice from both camps.

[little-cars]

4 hours ago, tank152 said:

Hopefully Paul will be able to help you with that question. All Iwatas apart from the Eclipse range are fitted with Teflon seals.

I must say that your English is very good.

 

Aibrushes of this type have various O rings usually various rubber types and PTFE.

 

The important one on the Harder & Steenbeck are:

 

Paint cup - PTFE

Air cap - Vitron Rubber

Back of paint nozzle - PTFE

Top of air valve - PTFE

Needle Seal in brush - Standard brushes have a single PTFE O ring.  CR+ brushes have three PTFE O rings.  

Standard brushes can be upgraded to the three o ring system used in the cr plus brush.

 

 H&S also produce their own cleaning brushes that fit the brush, a metal reamer to clean the inside of the nozzle and a screwdriver to let you change the needle seal o ring(s) very easily.

 

Paul

 

 

 

[tank152]

29 minutes ago, little-cars said:

 

Aibrushes of this type have various O rings usually various rubber types and PTFE.

 

The important one on the Harder & Steenbeck are:

 

Paint cup - PTFE

Air cap - Vitron Rubber

Back of paint nozzle - PTFE

Top of air valve - PTFE

Needle Seal in brush - Standard brushes have a single PTFE O ring.  CR+ brushes have three PTFE O rings.  

Standard brushes can be upgraded to the three o ring system used in the cr plus brush.

 

 H&S also produce their own cleaning brushes that fit the brush, a metal reamer to clean the inside of the nozzle and a screwdriver to let you change the needle seal o ring(s) very easily.

 

Paul

 

 

 

That's cleared that one up then.

Iwata also produce a tool set with all the correct tools for changing all the components in their air brushes. It goes without saying that like their airbrushes, the tools are all quality.

I must admit that the price of them now is pretty steep, they've nearly doubled in price since I bought mine.

[little-cars]

13 minutes ago, tank152 said:

That's cleared that one up then.

Iwata also produce a tool set with all the correct tools for changing all the components in their air brushes. It goes without saying that like their airbrushes, the tools are all quality.

I must admit that the price of them now is pretty steep, they've nearly doubled in price since I bought mine.

 

Iwata prices have gone up a lot over the last few years,  H&S haven't really changed at all.

 

The H&S maintenance kit costs about £30, the Iwata is now over £90 and it looks like they don't even include any O rings in it !

 

H&S Service Kit...

 

Paul

[tank152]

10 hours ago, little-cars said:

The H&S maintenance kit costs about £30, the Iwata is now over £90 and it looks like they don't even include any O rings in it !

 

H&S Service Kit...

 

Paul

That's probably because you never need to change them!!! (or rarely do) 😎 

[Bullbasket]

I have both the Iwata HP-C and the Neo with the gun trigger and am very happy with both and won't be changing them anytime soon. I did have trouble with the nozzle on the HP, due probably to me over tightening it. The replacement was purchased (I think) from Little Cars at a show, and I believe it cost around £32. Not cheap I know, but then what airbrush parts are cheap, unless you count the Chinese knock offs. 

 

John.

[little-cars]

1 hour ago, Bullbasket said:

I have both the Iwata HP-C and the Neo with the gun trigger and am very happy with both and won't be changing them anytime soon. I did have trouble with the nozzle on the HP, due probably to me over tightening it. The replacement was purchased (I think) from Little Cars at a show, and I believe it cost around £32. Not cheap I know, but then what airbrush parts are cheap, unless you count the Chinese knock offs. 

 

John.

 

Hi John,  Nozzles for HP-C  are now £40, H&S nozzles made in Germany £14 max. 

 

The Iwata Neo trigger gun TRN-1 is not manufactured by Iwata, but for Iwata. The parts look to be made by sparmax, with the exception if the plastic hand grip.

Exceot for the paint cup it is identical to their GP-35 brush, the TRN-2 has the same side feed cup as the sparmax GP-50.

 

Paul

Edited July 28, 2017 by little-cars

[Bullbasket]

57 minutes ago, little-cars said:

Hi John,  Nozzles for HP-C  are now £40, H&S nozzles made in Germany £14 max. 

Thanks for letting me know Paul, but hopefully, I won't need another anytime soon. I no longer use the small spanner to tighten it, just finger and thumb.

 

John.