Hermes Air Group

[4scourge7]

Hi all

I`m researching the air group of HMS Hermes during the Falklands War and am in need of some assistance.

Harrier serials are no problem; various sources can provide a wealth of serials for Sea Harriers of 800 NAS, the lighter grey Harriers of 809 NAS flown onto Hermes, and the Harrier GR.3 of 1 Sqn RAF.

Problems begin with the helicopters. I appreciate the movement of Sea Kings was fluid so I`ll list what I have. I`m really only sure of the first Sea King in each squadron.

 

826 NAS Sea King HAS.5

XZ578 (21)

XZ571 (43)

          (40)

          (22)

          (82)

          (42)

ZA132  (  ) - lost 12/5/82

XZ573  (  ) - lost 18/5/82

 

846 NAS Sea King HC.4

ZA298 (VA)

ZA311 (  ) -lost 23/4/82

ZA290 (  ) -lost 18/5/82

ZA294 (  ) -lost 19/5/82

         (VT)

         (VC)

 

 I`ve also read that both carriers had a pair of Lynx embarked for countering Exocet, but have no idea of serials, or how they differed externally from standard Lynx, if at all. 

 

I appreciate any help that can be offered in advance. 

 

Cheers, Ian

[rod mcq]

You will find all the information you need in this book

 

Falklands The Air War.

 

For example it lists the Sea Kings of 826 NAS which left the UK on HMS Hermes as

 

ZA130/H/132, ZA131/H/133, ZA132/H/134, ZA133/H/135, ZA136/H/140 XZ577/H/142, XZ571/H/143 plus ZA129/CU/582 and ZA137/CU/596 both ex-706NAS  - these both later received 826NAS codes.

 

There is a similar list for 846 NAS.

[4scourge7]

Thanks Rod. 

 

There are plenty of pics of Sea Kings on Hermes, it`s just trying to tie down which were reasonably described as being based on Hermes during the conflict for modelling purposes, give or take the odd aircraft that may be cross-decking etc...

 

Is there details of the Lynx on Hermes; any pics, any serials, any special external fits that would require modelling?

 

Cheers, Ian

[junglierating]

Depends at what point in the procedures...but box of tricks would have deployed ashore and come and go..junglies kinda do that but that was before my time 

[huvut76g7gbbui7]

XZ240,XZ700 and XZ720 transferred from RFA Fort Austin to HMS Hermes on 17 May 82. '700 then transferred to Atlantic Conveyor on 20 May due to shortage of space on Hermes.

The Lynx was used in the ESM and Exocet deflection role following Atlantic Conveyor's sinking. '720 went to Invincible in June and returned to Hermes after the Argentinian surrender.

As an aside '240 was later sold to Pakistan.

See this :http://www.fleetairarm.com/exhibit/westland-lynx-xz720/6-30-95.aspx

[rod mcq]

According to the book 4 Sea Kings from 826 NAS were detached to RFA Fort Austin on 17th May - XZ577, ZA130, ZA133 and ZA137. They deployed to Port San Carlos on 3rd June before rejoining Hermes on 6th June.

[rod mcq]

The Air Britain website has a photo of Lynx XZ240 on HMS Hermes when it returned to the UK on 21st July 1982

 

Lynx XZ240

Edited July 24, 2017 by rod mcq
spelling error

[4scourge7]

Thank you all, this has been invaluable. 

All I need now is a single HC.4 of 846NAS to accompany ZA298(VA) and I`m good to go.

Cheers, Ian

[junglierating]

Well according to the above fort austin had 4 sk on board....something isnt right there.........two in the hangar one in the lee of the hangar.The ELP is what it says an emergency LP. Even juggling 3 cabs on a one spot fort boat is tricky.still kinda irrelevant to the original question i think.

 

[rod mcq]

4 hours ago, ian buick said:

Thank you all, this has been invaluable. 

All I need now is a single HC.4 of 846NAS to accompany ZA298(VA) and I`m good to go.

Cheers, Ian

 

846 NAS had 9 Sea Kings on board HMS Hermes when the carrier left the UK on 5rd April.

ZA298/VA, ZA291/VB, ZA290/VC, ZA299/VE, ZA292/VH, ZA293/VK, ZA295/VM, ZA311/VP and ZA294/VT. 4 were detached to Wideawake Airfield on 17th April, ZA291, ZA295, ZA298 and ZA299 with the other 5 remaining on board Hermes when she went South.

 

A further 846 NAS 3 Sea Kings were embarked on HMS Fearless when she left the the UK, ZA296/VF, ZA297/VG and ZA310/VS. These aircraft also joined the 4 Wideawake Airfield detachment and were later joined by ZA312/VW which was flown out to Wideawake by a Heavylift Belfast and ZA313 which was transported to Wideawake on HMS Intrepid.  ZA313 was allocated code VZ but this was never worn by the Sea King during the campaign.

 

The 9 aircraft of the Wideawake detachment later went south on board 4 ships; Canberra - ZA299, Elk -ZA291, ZA295 and ZA312, HMS Fearless ZA296, ZA298 and ZA310 and HMS Intrepid ZA297 and ZA313.

 

If you want to build ZA298 it looks like it never operated from Hermes during the campaign after it left Hermes at Widawake on 17th April. It remained at Wideawake until 8th May when it embarked on Fearless and remained with that ship until 27th May when it moved to a FOB near San Carlos. It re-embarked on Fearless on 16th June and left for the UK onboard Fearless on 24th June, arriving back at Portsmouth on 13th July.

[huvut76g7gbbui7]

18 hours ago, junglierating said:

juggling 3 cabs on a one spot fort boat is tricky.still kinda irrelevant to the original question i think.

but nevertheless intriguing!

When I re-read the book to confirm 4 cabs,I wondered how on earth they managed but having studied this photo..2 in hangar, 1 on roof spot and one on normal spot!.Still a lot of juggling though.

[bootneck]

Hi Ian,

 

here is a view of Sea King HAS.2 XV648 [597], of 825 NAS whilst detached to Canberra between 28th May and 3rd June 1982.  I think this photo was taken on 28th May whilst the aircraft was delivering her detachment personnel and stores for the journey to Port San Carlos, F.I.

It's interesting to note that, at this time, she still had high-vis markings.

 

Mike

 

[junglierating]

4 hours ago, Scimitar said:

but nevertheless intriguing!

When I re-read the book to confirm 4 cabs,I wondered how on earth they managed but having studied this photo..2 in hangar, 1 on roof spot and one on normal spot!.Still a lot of juggling though.

How strange that happens to be my screen saver on my work laptop.

Now i could be wrong but i dont think the ELP has many TDP and the south atlantic isnt always that calm.Now maybe they fudged it but its tight....sat against the hangar door whilst NVG landing are practiced makes for an interesting evening.

[junglierating]

1 hour ago, bootneck said:

Hi Ian,

 

here is a view of Sea King HAS.2 XV648 [597], of 825 NAS whilst detached to Canberra between 28th May and 3rd June 1982.  I think this photo was taken on 28th May whilst the aircraft was delivering her detachment personnel and stores for the journey to Port San Carlos, F.I.

It's interesting to note that, at this time, she still had high-vis markings.

 

Mike

 

Trying to work out what they are up to that Sacru is still stowed so no idea what he is doing with the vertrep pole....them fire extinguishers must be heavy lmao

Make me wanna join up again

[4scourge7]

This has been excellent help, thank you all.

 

3 hours ago, bootneck said:

Hi Ian,

 

here is a view of Sea King HAS.2 XV648 [597], of 825 NAS whilst detached to Canberra between 28th May and 3rd June 1982.  I think this photo was taken on 28th May whilst the aircraft was delivering her detachment personnel and stores for the journey to Port San Carlos, F.I.

It's interesting to note that, at this time, she still had high-vis markings.

 

Mike

 

 

Fascinating shot of 97 in high-vis markings Mike, thank you.

The Falklands Air War book from Osprey shows a black number that `may` be 97 (first digit is rounded and may be 8 or 9, but is partially obscured) landed on liner QE2. A date is not given, but safe to assume after the 28th May if it is `97`.

 

22 hours ago, rod mcq said:

 

846 NAS had 9 Sea Kings on board HMS Hermes when the carrier left the UK on 5rd April.

ZA298/VA, ZA291/VB, ZA290/VC, ZA299/VE, ZA292/VH, ZA293/VK, ZA295/VM, ZA311/VP and ZA294/VT. 4 were detached to Wideawake Airfield on 17th April, ZA291, ZA295, ZA298 and ZA299 with the other 5 remaining on board Hermes when she went South.

 

A further 846 NAS 3 Sea Kings were embarked on HMS Fearless when she left the the UK, ZA296/VF, ZA297/VG and ZA310/VS. These aircraft also joined the 4 Wideawake Airfield detachment and were later joined by ZA312/VW which was flown out to Wideawake by a Heavylift Belfast and ZA313 which was transported to Wideawake on HMS Intrepid.  ZA313 was allocated code VZ but this was never worn by the Sea King during the campaign.

 

The 9 aircraft of the Wideawake detachment later went south on board 4 ships; Canberra - ZA299, Elk -ZA291, ZA295 and ZA312, HMS Fearless ZA296, ZA298 and ZA310 and HMS Intrepid ZA297 and ZA313.

 

If you want to build ZA298 it looks like it never operated from Hermes during the campaign after it left Hermes at Widawake on 17th April. It remained at Wideawake until 8th May when it embarked on Fearless and remained with that ship until 27th May when it moved to a FOB near San Carlos. It re-embarked on Fearless on 16th June and left for the UK onboard Fearless on 24th June, arriving back at Portsmouth on 13th July.

 

This info has helped complete my choices Rod, thank you.  

As was Scimitars` info on Lynx, and jungliereatings` too.

 

Cheers all, utterly priceless advice.  

 

Ian

[bootneck]

2 hours ago, ian buick said:

 

Fascinating shot of 97 in high-vis markings Mike, thank you.

The Falklands Air War book from Osprey shows a black number that `may` be 97 (first digit is rounded and may be 8 or 9, but is partially obscured) landed on liner QE2. A date is not given, but safe to assume after the 28th May if it is `97`.

My understanding is that 97 was deployed on QE2 first, during her journey to Grytviken. After that the cab transfered to Canberra and then moved ashore to Port San Carlos.  I can't imagine 97 repainting her codes back to white so perhaps that isn't 97 on QE2?  The only other consideration is that the photo was taken before 28th May, whilst Canberra and QE2 were sailing from Ascension to the TEZ but I don't think these two ships were ever that close to allow such a long range cross-deck flight.

 

Canberra first entered San Carlos Water (Bomb Alley) 22 May and therefore it appears that 97 joined Canberra (28 May) after she had sailed from Bomb Alley.

 

I have other photo's of helo's visiting Canberra but they were taken with a small Instamatic (remember them?) and there's not enough detail to make out which serial or squadron they belonged to.

 

Mike