Beard Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 39 minutes ago, Stew Dapple said: I'm not terribly keen on the etched belts myself (or indeed etched stuff in general unless I really have to) but the super-fabric belts are good, comparatively expensive and a bit fiddly, but only about 25% of the inherent-faff-factor of etched belts Cheers, Stew 25% of the faff... that I could probably live with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedders Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) Really enjoying this thread Stew. When I did my 24, I didn't change the propeller from the Airfix 22 one, as I'm not convinced that they were different. The only reference I've seen to the 24 having an 11' 10" propeller is in one set of technical figures in 'Spitfire The History'. But there is no reference to the change from the 21/22 prop of 11' 0" in the main text, and no explanation as to why/how it was made (testing etc). The undercarriage legs of the 21 were made longer to allow a 7" increase in propeller disc than on the XIV/XVIII/XIX. But the legs in the 24 were not longer than those on the 21/22, yet we are led to believe that the propeller disc was a full 10" bigger. Pecking would surely have been a major problem. And surely the difference would be visible in photos. So I don't buy it, and given that the Morgan & Shacklady book can sometimes frustrate with occasional inconsistencies, misprints etc, I'm tempted to think that the change from 11' 0" to 11' 10" is one on the page only, i.e. just a misprint. Controversial? Justin Edited February 16, 2018 by Bedders 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courageous Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Sounds good to me Justin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 And me! keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 As I understand it, the Airfix propeller was good for a Mk.XIV/XVIII but too small for a 22 and therefore too small for a 24 also, whatever the size of the latter. John. PS Forgive me if I've missed something/got hold of the wrong end of the stick. It's not uncommon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bedders said: ...given that the Morgan & Shacklady book can sometimes frustrate... I'm tempted to think that the change from 11' 0" to 11' 10" is one on the page only, i.e. just a misprint. Justin, I'd have said the same thing, but probably not as clearly. And now that I look at the "expedited" quote, I see that all that it would require would be an errant '1' following the 11' and preceding the zero/null/nada/zip. It might be worth checking the kit and aftermarket blade length, not to mention shape and "finesse". (I haven't been faithfully following this thread- shame on me- so if you've already compared the two props then nevermind!) Edit: Having recently re-found my wee Spit 22 (I usually do 1/48 and have a hard-to-justify(TM) stack of 1/32, also), with only a small amount of peering around I was able to re-re-find it. As near as I can figure with my atomic-mass spectro-measuring device and my Einsteinian math skills, the kit prop measures out to about 10'3" diameter. Give or take some amount that won't get you to eleven feet. So a tip o' the hat to @johnd. [I'm probably not doing it right to "call out" John, and while I accept that modified roundel in an e-mail address, I do not spell my name- even my pseudonym- with one. What's this world coming to?] Edit some more: Oh by the way, it was the gratuitous use of "XVIII" that seduced me into this thread the other day... Edited February 16, 2018 by gingerbob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookenbacher Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Thanks for that Gingerbob, it confirms the conventional wisdom that the Airfix Mk 19 looks better with the Mk 22 prop - it's about the proper size for a Mk XIV, 18, 19. I added the longest blades I could find to my Airfix Mk 24 (the long blades in the Special Hobby Griffon Spitfire kits), and the results looked much better than the kit blades in my opinion. I must admit that I haven't measured to see if the SH blades come out to a scale 11' or 11' 10". As an aside, in the above process, I read and took notes on many BM threads on the subject and here is list of Griffon prop sizes (not claiming it's correct, but it's what several trusted BM'ers have come up with across several threads): Spitfire XIV - 10'5" dia Spitfire 21 & 22 - 11' dia Spitfire 24 - 11'10" dia The Mk 22/24 is quickly becoming one of my favorites - I think because the giant tail restores an elegant 'balance' to the design - from the Mk IX to the 21, the nose becomes bigger and bigger, giving a more purposeful angrier look, but suddenly the Mk 22 seems graceful again. Just one guys' opinion! Sorry for the thread drift Simon! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 5 hours ago, gingerbob said: it was the gratuitous use of "XVIII" that seduced me into this thread the other day... apologies, but now I know how to get you interested in threads . 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beard Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, Bedders said: Really enjoying this thread Stew. If these builds were by Stew, they'd be a lot better. 9 hours ago, Bedders said: I'm tempted to think that the change from 11' 0" to 11' 10" is one on the page only, i.e. just a misprint. That sounds reasonable and I've been unable to find anything that clarifies the change in propeller size. 7 hours ago, johnd said: As I understand it, the Airfix propeller was good for a Mk.XIV/XVIII but too small for a 22 and therefore too small for a 24 also, whatever the size of the latter. John. PS Forgive me if I've missed something/got hold of the wrong end of the stick. It's not uncommon. I've read the same, on this very site. 6 hours ago, gingerbob said: Oh by the way, it was the gratuitous use of "XVIII" that seduced me into this thread the other day... XVIII or 18? That is the question. 1 hour ago, Cookenbacher said: Sorry for the thread drift Simon! Not a problem. I've taken some photographs of the various propellers for you all to compare and contrast. Airfix 22 Sword XIV Freightdog 22 Freightdog 24 Edited February 16, 2018 by Beard 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedders Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Interesting discussion, and I'd forgotten about the Airfix prop possibly being a bit small. By my reckoning 11' is 4.65cm in 1/72, so whichever of the above is closest is the winner! Cookie, fully agree on the beauty of the 22/24. Would love to see one flying. Maybe they'll get moving on that one at Duxford... Justin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beard Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 28 minutes ago, Bedders said: so whichever of the above is closest is the winner! I think the Sword and the Freightdog 22 are closest, which means that the Sword one is too big for the kit it's meant for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beard Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 The VBs have had a second coat of Dark Green. They'll have a rub-down then another coat of Ocean Grey. Meanwhile, I'm glueing the wings to the Mk24 and the 18 (XVIII) is on hold until I can get some Colourcoats Light Slate Grey, which involves a trip to the loft to see what other colours I need from them. In other news, I'll be making a trip to my LHS to get some filler (but may also involve buying a kit or two), posting some pilots to CedB and, cooking tonights' tea. Thanks for looking. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Bit early for tea, isn't it Simon, I haven't had breakfast yet....!! Very interesting stuff on the props, will have to check what Freightdog ones I have in stock later. If I can find them... Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 15 hours ago, Beard said: XVIII or 18? That is the question. I'm flexible! For my own use, I do both, but probably tend to type '18' relatively often, just for convenience seasoned with justification that they probably saw most service once the Romans had been tossed out. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Nice Vbs Simon - have a good day at the LMS and thanks for the pilots! (Belts are in the post) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beard Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) The LHS was closed, due to staff illness, so I couldn't re-stock on Humbrol filler. I bought these instead: Edited February 17, 2018 by Beard 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedders Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Agree these are nice looking Vbs. Haven't done one since I was a kid, with the old Airfix. But these new AZs look the business. Justin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beard Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Bedders said: Agree these are nice looking Vbs. Haven't done one since I was a kid, with the old Airfix. But these new AZs look the business. Justin The KP Spitfires are nice kits (the AZ ones are nice too but limited run and the molds are now pretty worn), although there is talk of the wing chord being off. My advice is: buy some and build them, you won't regret it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedders Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Thanks for putting me straight on KP vs AZ. Definitely want the KP ones! Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookenbacher Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Those Vb's are looking great Simon. Glad to here you're doing the XVIII () in the LSG/DE, very cool scheme. Hasn't KP said they're coming out with a Vc soon? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beard Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, Cookenbacher said: Hasn't KP said they're coming out with a Vc soon? They are, later this year. I'm working overtime to ensure I can afford a few (and when I say a few, I mean around 20). 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr T Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Some nice work with the various Spitfires there. I finished an AZ Spitfire 18 yesterday in the post war desert scheme. Looks a bit odd tbh. The kit as one of the earlier AZ ones has its challenges in terms of fit and mould lines, but I am reasonably pleased with the result. Will try and post in RFI next week. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beard Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, Mr T said: Some nice work with the various Spitfires there. I finished an AZ Spitfire 18 yesterday in the post war desert scheme. Looks a bit odd tbh. The kit as one of the earlier AZ ones has its challenges in terms of fit and mould lines, but I am reasonably pleased with the result. Will try and post in RFI next week. Thank you. I have an AZ XVIII (18) in the stash and I've heard that it ain't quite right, something to do with the tail but it can't remember exactly what. I look forward to seeing your one though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr T Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I did some reshaping of the tail as I was not fully convinced, still not sure if it right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beard Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 Having had a think about it, I think the AZ XIV (low-back) and XVIII (18) kits contain the same plastic and are okay for an 18. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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