King Tiger and spent shell casings

[Bernie Mac]

Hi all,

 

I have been doing a lot of research on how the crews operated their King Tigers but there is one piece of information I can't seem to track down and was wondering if anyone might be able to help me out? I am currently building Takom's 1/35 KT  (Henschel turret) and want to display the model as if it was in the heat of battle i.e, battle scares, spent rounds laying about, interior a bit of a mess etc.

 

Once of things I have been trying to find out is what the crew did with the spent shell cases after firing each round. I have read on some articles that some AFV's had a canvas sack to collect the shells (think this was on the Panzer V or IV) but not the KT's. I have found some diagrams that indicate that the small hatch on the rear of the turret was for ejecting spent shells.

 

 

I am curious to know if this was actually the case. If it is, it will greatly change on I weather the top of the turret to indicate the paint chipping from the casings landing on the top of the turrent and even the top of the engine covers, as well as placing a shell or two on the back.

 

However another article has indicated that is was usually the practice of the crew to saves the casings and place them back onto the racks and brought back to the stores to be refilled. This was usually done after the engagement, which meant that the shells would just be disgarded and left to roll around the interior until they were in the clear. This in my opinion seems like the most obvious scenario but I would have thought that if one of the shells fell into an awkward position it could block the turrent from rotating which is not what you need when you have a flanking enemy.

 

The third option, although I am not sure how viable it is unless they were firing at range would be chucking the casings out the back escape hatch. Although it looks like the hatch isn't the most accessible when fully loaded and does leave a massive gap into compartment which I can't imagine they were keen to leave open.

 

Depending on what their processes were will dictate quiet a lot about the model and the finer details so I am keen to find out how they did it.

 

But anyway enough of my rambling, anybody with any information or thoughts on the matter I would love to hear as I am of two minds with this one and would like to see what others may have found that I missed.

 

- Ian

 

 

Edited July 13, 2017 by Bernie Mac

[Arachnid]

Perhaps they sold 'em by the sea shore 😀

[Panzer Vor!!!]

Dropped to turret floor then unloaded to a truck or just dumped

[JackG]

This thread seems to be a continuation of an earlier one you had made ... I thought the link I provided there (from Missing-Lynx forum) was pretty much complete?

 

Based on what the members had presented there, it really depends on your planned setting on how the shells are dispensed with.  If they are buttoned down (all hatches closed), then they will use the smaller opening in the roof.  I notice the rear escape hatch has a small opening labeled pistol port - I don't know if the diameter is large enough to pass a brass casing through?

 

Of course, initially they will let casings fall on the floor as they are extremely hot, but would get rid of them eventually.  Can't imagine the crew letting them pile up, as then you are risking getting burned as fresh shells bounce off the pile of spent shells.

 

regards,

Jack

 

 

 

 

[Kingsman]

The King Tiger didn't have a catch basket for the spent cases, which are about 82cm long and 12cm diameter.  If you look at the tubular extension to the gun cradle behind the breech - which marks the recoil safety area - there is a semi-circular upstand at the back.  This is to deflect the ejected case and prevent it going further back.  The case would then fall to the floor to one side.  The design of the guard with that central cross-piece prevented the case dropping straight down.  Bit of a flaw?  As the loader stood on the floor handling fresh 25kg metre-long rounds you wouldn't want too many of those empty cases under your feet.  There also doesn't seem to be any way of ensuring that the spent case fell on the side away from the loader and didn't get in the way of loading a fresh round by coming towards him.

 

If you look at the turret internals, access to the turret rear hatch is almost impossible from inside.  The stowed ammo in the turret bustle almost comes together at the back, leaving only a very narrow gap - but enough to get a case through.  It's also more than a metre reach over the turret ring, with access blocked by the afore-mentioned recoil guard.  Once the inner racks are emptied there is more space, but access is still difficult.  I imagine it would have been easiest for the loader to throw spent cases overboard through his turret roof hatch if still in contact.  He would not need to expose himself to do that, but probably would to open and close the hatch.  If the local commander was employing the tank to advantage, using the long reach of the KwK43, the the loader would be at no risk throwing out the empties.  King Tiger wasn't designed for tactical close range tank dogfighting, where it gave up all its advantages.  But of course it didn't usually work out like that.