warhawk Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Hello, I have been musing with starting a Mk.IV Spitfire, namely BS491 used by No. 542 Sqn RAF at Gibraltar in 1943. I have some questions regarding this particular bird: What would be different inside from standard Mk.I/Mk.V cockpit Wing reinforcement strips - use them or remove them from kit? Antennae wires - which ones to use, if any? The mast is clearly visible on photos Kit instructions suggest it was overall PRU blue, while "On Target Profile No.8 - Photo recce Spitfires" states it was an "Unidentified Dark blue, possibly Dark Mediterranean blue"? Please take a look at photos I have managed to find (below), and give me any opinion on these matters? source: Site du 350ieme Squadron 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Not the best expert on the spitfire. But my opinion says PRU Blue. Looks to grey to be Dark Mediterranean blue and its to Dark to be Light Mediterranean Blue. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhawk Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 4 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said: But my opinion says PRU Blue. Looks to grey to be Dark Mediterranean blue and its to Dark to be Light Mediterranean Blue. Thank You for Your opinion, Dennis. My guess also leans towards PRU Blue, but I can see the logic in supposing a darker blue - the s/n is lighter than the background, which is unusual for PRU blue machines (they usually had those in black). Aleksandar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Serial numbers on most PR aircrafts were in Medium Sea Grey, so nothing strange if this looks lighter than the overall blue colour. I would agree judging from the picture that this aircraft is in PRU Blue. It is true however that many PR Spitfires in the MTO were painted in a very dark blue. Of course interpreting colour pictures is always tricky and of course there's the possibility that the picture is colorised and not a true colour picture and so on... Reinforcement strips: my eyes see something in those pictures that may be the reinforcement strips, mybe it's just a trick of the light and I'm seeing something else... Aerials: by 1943 the VHF radio was well established, this used the mast as antenna, with no wire going to the tail so this is the setup I'd use on this model. The picture seems to confirm the use of the mast without wires 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 I should add that if The History is correct, this aircraft was delivered in October 1942, by then the overwing stiffeners were supposed to have been introduced on the production line (Mod.532, introduced on the production line in July 1942, thanks to the late Edgar Brooks who taught me more about Spitfires than most books ever did). This too points to the presence of the strips on the wing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Adding to Giorgio's points: Although Spitfire The History has this aircraft serving with 1 PRU and 542 Sq, the relevant Air Britain serial book has it serving with 1 PRU, 544 Sq and 541 Sq, with its fate "Dived into ground in bad weather returning from Gibraltar, Chelvey Farm, Backwell, Somerset." Air Britain's Squadrons of the RAF and Commonwealth 1918-1988 says that B flight of the UK-based 544 Squadron was detached to Gibraltar around October 1942 and that in March 1943 it transferred to 541 Sq. The photos may have been taken at Gibraltar (though the surroundings look a little lush and there is a conspicuous absence of large rocks) but I would have expected aircraft detached from a UK-based unit to be in standard European PRU camouflage and markings which, for once, is what they actually look like. And IMHO 1943 is a little late for the more exotic dark blues applied to aircraft in the early days of Spitfire PR in the Med. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Given the background, I'd say that the photos are likely to have been taken in the UK, possibly before the aircraft went to Gibraltar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) Hi, Warhawk, That "unidentified Dark Blue", could have been the so-called in some sources "Royal Blue". However, it would be about the shade of the fuselage roundel, to the point of making it virtually invisible. In the Ventura book there is a picture of BR146 in such a colour, and they have painted the roundels a ligher blue for contrast. Fernando Edited July 12, 2017 by Fernando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Fletcher Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 The PRU Spitfires operated from Gibraltar were PRU blue. They where routinely rotated back to the UK for major servicing etc and had the "standard" PRU blue camouflage scheme of UK based PR Spitfires. Best Regards Andy Fletcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 On 7/10/2017 at 4:22 PM, warhawk said: Hello, I have been musing with starting a Mk.IV Spitfire, namely BS491 used by No. 542 Sqn RAF at Gibraltar in 1943. I have some questions regarding this particular bird: What would be different inside from standard Mk.I/Mk.V cockpit Wing reinforcement strips - use them or remove them from kit? Antennae wires - which ones to use, if any? The mast is clearly visible on photos Kit instructions suggest it was overall PRU blue, while "On Target Profile No.8 - Photo recce Spitfires" states it was an "Unidentified Dark blue, possibly Dark Mediterranean blue"? My two cents (mostly opinion rather than conviction): 1) Oops, I'll get back to you on that. 2) I do believe I can see them, looking at the big version of your second image. 3) The comm radio antenna is buried in the mast (no wire to tail). There may be an IFF rod under the starboard wing, but I don't know for certain. 4) It seems like PRU Blue to me. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhawk Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 4 hours ago, gingerbob said: There may be an IFF rod under the starboard wing, but I don't know for certain. Thanks, Bob. Does this mean no IFF wires leading to horizontal stabilizer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Right, it would be either/or- or possibly neither! Just had a look at my "PR.IV" manual, but the cockpit shots actually are for the XI (it is an inclusive PR manual). Probably similar, though. bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Most likely no IFF wires by 1943 The cockpit should have differed with no gunsight and the presence of the camera control box. I'll see if I can find any picture of the PR.IV arrangement, I wouldn't be surprised to find it's the same as later marks though 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Schilhart Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Hello Warhawk! I don't know if this is useful for you ... but I remembered, I had seen a PR.Mk.IV built at the ModelBrno show in June. Here's the photograph. I think it was a scratch-conversion based on the Tamiya kit: With kiind regards from Vienna. Roman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Hi, Roman, I have built exactly the same model, from a SH in 1/48 kit. There is a missing bulge on the top of the nearest wing, close to the circular hatch you can see. I would bet the one in the undersurface is missing too. There were fuel vent valves on the wing tips. There are a couple of old Airwaves conversions whose instructions give you exact clue about those; at the same time, the oft derided SAMI book is spot on on them. The windscreen IMHO is a bit upright. Regards, Fernando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhawk Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 Sorry to raise an old topic, but the question is related: Should this photo-recce Mk.IV aircraft be equipped with this armor plate behind the seat? I know they were fine-tuned for speed, but then again, if a 109 jumps you, you have no armament to defend yourself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) On 7/13/2017 at 4:47 AM, Fernando said: Hi, Roman, I have built exactly the same model, from a SH in 1/48 kit. There is a missing bulge on the top of the nearest wing, close to the circular hatch you can see. I would bet the one in the undersurface is missing too. There were fuel vent valves on the wing tips. There are a couple of old Airwaves conversions whose instructions give you exact clue about those; at the same time, the oft derided SAMI book is spot on on them. The windscreen IMHO is a bit upright. Regards, Fernando Good eye, Fernando! IIRC that blister and another in the same location under the wing is associated with the extra oil tank that was fitted in one of the LH gun bays. I'm away from my references right now, but I will check and confirm. If you have the Model Alliance On Target monograph on PR Spitfires, it is shown in the 3-view color drawings. Mike Edited March 9, 2018 by 72modeler corrected spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Kiker Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) Hi Warhawk, Regarding your first question, much of the cockpit would remain the same. Exceptions include a small panel on each side of the cockpit with two instruments; these are a fuel gauge and tank pressure, I believe, for the wing tanks that take up the leading edge of the wings back to the main spar. This is often referred to as the Bowser wing. As I am sure you know, there is no gun sight but it is replaced by the main camera control panel. Armor plate behind the seat and that upper piece behind the pilot's head and shoulders is problematic; some recce Spits retained that armor and some did not. Absent a picture of the cockpit of the specific aircraft you are doing, I would leave both in place. HTH, Jim Edited March 8, 2018 by Jim Kiker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) I'm not sure why the strengthening pieces would be required on the PR variants, given the different flight regime of these variants. However, STH does mention a small number of the early Mk.I conversions suffering from skin wrinkling, so perhaps these were the low-flyers? I recall that Edgar did mention a number of mods linked to the wing root strength, with the strakes being perhaps the last on the early wing. The D wings were built on a separate line, so linking the introduction of the mod to the serial/build date may be unwise. Do other enthusiasts know of photos of these variants that clearly show the fitting of the strakes? Edited March 7, 2018 by Graham Boak Expansion of discussion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Whittingham Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) Hello all, there are several photos of Spit PR IV with the strakes in the BR series. BR119 is one of these, if I remember correctly. I’m not near my references at the moment. TW Edited March 7, 2018 by Tony Whittingham Spelling 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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