Anonymous BF-109 E4 +++COMPLETED+++

[BIG X]

...I think this answers my wing root conundrum...

...if it is good enough for Eduard it's good enough for me...

[BIG X]

I'm just waiting for my black nose to dry - then its on with the HELLBLAU!!!

[BIG X]

It's been slow going today - the yellow nose cone has been painted black and we have the second coat of Hellblau slowing drying.

 

 

[BIG X]

I have a quick question - is this a RLM70 / RLM71 Scheme and does the splinter pattern look 'right'???

 

[Gorby]

8 minutes ago, BIG X said:

is this a RLM70 / RLM71 Scheme and does the splinter pattern look 'right'???

 

  

I know I'll spend the rest of the weekend in the stocks being pelted with rotten veg, but in my opinion, if you like the look of it, it's right.

If you want to know the exact colour, you will end up with about a dozen different opinions about the exact colour - particularly taking 'scale fading' into account. 

[Pauls9cb]

Steve - the upper colours are RLM 02 (the lighter grey-green which was also the main colour for the internal cockpit, and and inside the wheel wells, with the darker colour being RLM 71 dark green (dunkelgrun). The pattern of the splinter is one of many similar patterns with the fuselage and tail plane as shown but wing uppers with various slightly different patterns. You pays yer money and takes yer choice unless you're doing a specific a/c with contemporary pics to guide you.

 

 

 

Go for whichever you prefer. I don't think any of them are necessarily wrong.

Cheers

Paul

[BIG X]

12 minutes ago, Gorby said:

 

  

I know I'll spend the rest of the weekend in the stocks being pelted with rotten veg, but in my opinion, if you like the look of it, it's right.

If you want to know the exact colour, you will end up with about a dozen different opinions about the exact colour - particularly taking 'scale fading' into account. 

 it wasn't meant to be a can of worms - but I know exactly what you mean.  In my professional career there are forums galore where people ask a question and get 101 different and conflicting answers - including...  "I've always done it this way - it looks sh*te - but I have been doing it for twenty years and never get it right - so I don't see a reason to change".

 

I do like the scheme - I just don't know if it is RLM70 / RLM71 - or a different colour combination

[BIG X]

12 minutes ago, Pauls9cb said:

Steve - the upper colours are RLM 02 (the lighter grey-green which was also the main colour for the internal cockpit, and and inside the wheel wells, with the darker colour being RLM 71 dark green (dunkelgrun). The pattern of the splinter is one of many similar patterns with the fuselage and tail plane as shown but wing uppers with various slightly different patterns. You pays yer money and takes yer choice unless you're doing a specific a/c with contemporary pics to guide you.

 

 

 

Go for whichever you prefer. I don't think any of them are necessarily wrong.

Cheers

Paul

 

lovely pics Paul - so RLM2 / RLM71 - thanks a million - I did take a quick look at my 'coloured spoons' and thought 70/71 didn't look right - I'll post a pic in a minute... 

[BIG X]

Here is RLM - 65/70/71 - courtesy of my Vallejo Model Air 'spoon' collection...

 

 

I'll check to see if I have RLM2 in the paint rack and compare.

[Pauls9cb]

You'll need RLM 02 at some point anyway. 70/71 was the earlier camo scheme for 109s and was still used for most bombers as well as Bf 110s for a long time during the BoB and later. Like the spoon idea.

Paul

[Simon382]

2 hours ago, BIG X said:

Here is RLM - 65/70/71 - courtesy of my Vallejo Model Air 'spoon' collection...

 

 

I'll check to see if I have RLM2 in the paint rack and compare.

Now that's a clever idea! May have to pinch this for myself 

[BIG X]

5 minutes ago, Simon382 said:

Now that's a clever idea! May have to pinch this for myself 

ASDA - 100 plastic teaspoons - £1 - that's Asda price - ta da da

[BIG X]

2 hours ago, Pauls9cb said:

You'll need RLM 02 at some point anyway. 70/71 was the earlier camo scheme for 109s and was still used for most bombers as well as Bf 110s for a long time during the BoB and later. Like the spoon idea.

Paul

 

Paul - you are a smashing fella.  I have checked and I have the RLM2 in the paint rack - but I also have loads in the stash for the 70/71 scheme...

 

• Eduard BF-110c
• Airfix JU-87b
• ICM JU-88a5
• ICM DO17z

...and I'm eagerly anticipating the ICM HE-111 in the Autumn.

 

All good stuff!!!

[sven_ss]

Really sorry to inform you that all the preshading colour made with the permanent marker will go out through the paint at some point.

My advice: clean it all and make the preshading with dark brown/grey or black acrylic paint.

 

[BIG X]

Hmmm - The RLM 65/02/71 combination looks very pretty - thanks Paul

 

 

 

 

[BIG X]

3 hours ago, Pauls9cb said:

Steve - the upper colours are RLM 02 (the lighter grey-green which was also the main colour for the internal cockpit, and and inside the wheel wells, with the darker colour being RLM 71 dark green (dunkelgrun). The pattern of the splinter is one of many similar patterns with the fuselage and tail plane as shown but wing uppers with various slightly different patterns. You pays yer money and takes yer choice unless you're doing a specific a/c with contemporary pics to guide you.

 

 

 

Go for whichever you prefer. I don't think any of them are necessarily wrong.

Cheers

Paul

 

I'm always learning something new and exciting on here...

 

In my ignorance I never considered varying splinter patterns on the same model of Luftwaffe aircraft - absolutely stupid of me of course.

 

I am aware of camo A/B on Spitfires and Hurricanes etc.

 

...and the variation in underside patterns / roundel sizes / code letter colours / nose cone colours.

 

So how dim of me not to consider the same for the Luftwaffe - especially considering how flamboyant some of their markings are.

 

[BIG X]

1 hour ago, sven_ss said:

Really sorry to inform you that all the preshading colour made with the permanent marker will go out through the paint at some point.

My advice: clean it all and make the preshading with dark brown/grey or black acrylic paint.

 

Sven - it sounds like you are talking from experience - please tell me more...

[BIG X]

OK - three coats of blau down and now I have to leave things until Wednesday.  Hopefully this will give everything time to harden up and I can mask up the bottom and sides, in preparation for the camo coats.  I can also see a few joins that need 'prodding' with a scalpel to reinstate the proper lines.  Looking forward to Wednesday night and more money to the Tamiya Tape Treasury.

 

Isn't it a shame how work gets in the way of our enjoyment.  I've got to go to Bristol for a couple of days to run customer training days in my "real job" - beggar!!!

 

[sven_ss]

From experience I'm talking. Permanent marker isn't a good idea. Believe me.

 Anyway, you covered all the preshading on the belly, so I don't see the reason you did it.

[sven_ss]

Take a look:

http://www.ratomodeling.com/articles/pre_shading1/

[BIG X]

39 minutes ago, sven_ss said:

Anyway, you covered all the preshading on the belly, so I don't see the reason you did it.

...to see if it will bleed through - obviously...

[Pauls9cb]

Steve - My boy does in dealer training for all sorts of motor manufacturers. Is that what you're up to in Bristol?

Back to the important stuff

You're obviousy not short of subjects for the 70/71 shades. I've posted one Bf 110 C and one Ju 87 B with 70/71 (see below) which might be interesting when you get round to those projects.

I'd ignored the fact that you'd pre-shaded your E-4 with marker pen but it wouldn't have meant anything to me since I've never tried that, for good reason as it seems from the advice you've received. I find that once you've finished the paint job, glossed it in some way and got the decals how you want them, a bit of thinned dark umber oil paint lightly teased into the panel lines and joints that you may want to highlight works a treat. Some more skilled than me may highlight individual panels with a lighter spray over the central panel area or a darker colour around the outside of the panel areas before the gloss coat and transfers, but that's a job too far for me. Again it's that horses for courses thing judging time against detail result.

You're probably well aware that Bf 109s (and Bf 110S) were built in much the same way as the models you have, i.e, with the fuselage halves joined top and bottom with a visible join line both over and under. Hence it's not accurate to fill these lines in - they should be visible. I understand that on the topside, one half slightly overlapped the other (perhaps underneath as well), but I've never tried to reproduce this so it's up to you. If you have the time, check out Bf 110 day fighter swansong and Airfix 1:24 Scale 1940 Ju 87 B, both earlier posts I put up.

Cheers

Paul

[BIG X]

59 minutes ago, Pauls9cb said:

Steve - My boy does in dealer training for all sorts of motor manufacturers. Is that what you're up to in Bristol?

Back to the important stuff

You're obviousy not short of subjects for the 70/71 shades. I've posted one Bf 110 C and one Ju 87 B with 70/71 (see below) which might be interesting when you get round to those projects.

I'd ignored the fact that you'd pre-shaded your E-4 with marker pen but it wouldn't have meant anything to me since I've never tried that, for good reason as it seems from the advice you've received. I find that once you've finished the paint job, glossed it in some way and got the decals how you want them, a bit of thinned dark umber oil paint lightly teased into the panel lines and joints that you may want to highlight works a treat. Some more skilled than me may highlight individual panels with a lighter spray over the central panel area or a darker colour around the outside of the panel areas before the gloss coat and transfers, but that's a job too far for me. Again it's that horses for courses thing judging time against detail result.

You're probably well aware that Bf 109s (and Bf 110S) were built in much the same way as the models you have, i.e, with the fuselage halves joined top and bottom with a visible join line both over and under. Hence it's not accurate to fill these lines in - they should be visible. I understand that on the topside, one half slightly overlapped the other (perhaps underneath as well), but I've never tried to reproduce this so it's up to you. If you have the time, check out Bf 110 day fighter swansong and Airfix 1:24 Scale 1940 Ju 87 B, both earlier posts I put up.

Cheers

Paul

Hey Paul - not cars - mounting and laminating machinery for the photographic / display / arts industries. 

 

I've been at it for nearly thirty years one way or the other.  I actually left the company in Bristol five years ago - but due to contractual agreements I still have to do their product training every three months - quite a contract - but it does bring the money in.

 

Don't worry about the felt tip pre-shading - I only do it for a bit of fun - as the way I spray paint - any pre-shading never shows through.  However the very interesting link that @sven_ss posted is enough to scare any serious modeller off - I wonder if the guy who wrote it was an ex-employee of Sharpie - with a bit of a grudge (only joking).

 

Your comment about BF109's & Bf1110's having a top and bottom seam line is very interesting though - I spent hours getting rid of the seams - without losing the circumference lines. 

[Black Knight]

Have you visited Wings Palette?

http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/32

Good for ideas, but don't trust them 100%; always reference an artwork to a photo

[Avgas]

11 hours ago, sven_ss said:

From experience I'm talking. Permanent marker isn't a good idea. Believe me.

 Anyway, you covered all the preshading on the belly, so I don't see the reason you did it.

 

I've got to agree with sven here. Years ago I built a Spitfire which up to that point was the best model I'd ever made. I used a Sharpie for the preshading. It looked great for a few weeks until the Sharpie started bleeding through and ruined it completely.

 

I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm, which is great to see, but the sharpie bleed is a real thing in my experience, unfortunately. If I was in your shoes I'd fix it. I'd hate to see what looks a good build ruined.