Anonymous BF-109 E4 +++COMPLETED+++

[BIG X]

I hope this is the right area for this – it is a ‘work in progress’ after all.  I currently have a ‘very anonymous’ BF-109 E4 sat on the bench.

 

 

I have ordered loads of third party decals – various coloured numbers / symbols / badges / emblems – but I haven’t decided on a specific airframe yet – so I was hoping you guys and gals could offer some suggestions.  This is my first Luftwaffe build – but there is plenty more in the stash – so I want to get to grips with ‘splinter’ schemes and the dreaded ‘custard’ noses, tails and wing tips etc.

I really do fancy a custard nose and tail – but I also want to avoid ‘mottled’ sides on this first build – you know the feeling – ‘great job, but a pity it was ruined by the amateurish mottling’.

Up to now the only profile I have found that fits the bill is this one…

 

 

It fits the bill - apart from the tail of course

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction for a good scheme - BoB era if possible

 

Thanks in advance - Steve

[Gorby]

My suggestion would be – try the mottling.

It doesn't have to be on the model, I use old CD cases for practice. Even if you use the model and make a complete hash, you can always over-paint again. It's not as difficult as you may think – and think of the sense of achievement if you manage. Judging from your last build, your better with the air-brush than you think.

I tried mottling on my very first 'returnee' build (below) – I wasn't looking forward to it and it's far from perfect, but it helped me overcome the fear factor. So consider giving it a go.

[BIG X]

16 minutes ago, Gorby said:

My suggestion would be – try the mottling.

It doesn't have to be on the model, I use old CD cases for practice. Even if you use the model and make a complete hash, you can always over-paint again. It's not as difficult as you may think – and think of the sense of achievement if you manage. Judging from your last build, your better with the air-brush than you think.

I tried mottling on my very first 'returnee' build (below) – I wasn't looking forward to it and it's far from perfect, but it helped me overcome the fear factor. So consider giving it a go.

 

Lovely 262 there and lovely mottling.  I do intend practicing - I use empty water bottles - for their 'curvy' nature...

[BIG X]

...OK...  First 'custard' coat applied...

 

 

...time for a cup of tea - then more 'custard' to follow...

[BIG X]

I've got these decal sets to play with - along with the standard Airfix details that came with the kit...

 

 

 

 

 

 

...so many choices - but do any go with the custard nose and tail???

[Gorby]

Wow, how many 109's are you planning to do?

[Gorby]

Just had a look on Google images for 'yellow nose 109' and there are loads from the decals sheets you have shown. The red griffin is a non mottle one, but there's probably many more.

[Antb]

Wowzers that's some good going with the decals! 

 

I'm sure there are some good custards in amongst that lot I'm sure @Troy Smith would be able to pick a few out? Troy knows his stuff when it comes to 109's 

[BIG X]

You can never have too many decals

 

...or custom made aerials for that matter

 

I never get it right the first time around  - with any aircraft - so I do plan on making more 109's - but maybe not Airfix...

The kit goes together very nicely - but the Airfix customer service was very poor - as this kit is actually now discontinued - shame

[BIG X]

3 minutes ago, Antb said:

Wowzers that's some good going with the decals! 

 

I'm sure there are some good custards in amongst that lot I'm sure @Troy Smith would be able to pick a few out? Troy knows his stuff when it comes to 109's 

An expert opinion would be most welcomed from @Troy Smith or anyone who can spot a custard nosed candidate.

[BIG X]

4 minutes ago, Antb said:

Wowzers that's some good going with the decals! 

 

I'm sure there are some good custards in amongst that lot I'm sure @Troy Smith would be able to pick a few out? Troy knows his stuff when it comes to 109's 

...BTW @Antb you know I said there was zero chance of me doing a WIP thread - well I slept on it and realised...

A good WIP can be used to get help as well as share expertise - which I am lacking at present.

So all help gratefully received  Steve

[Troy Smith]

I see my name mentioned,  crikey there are  many more  experts  on 109's out there, but if you spend a great deal of your time online while on parent duties (I'm discussing Das clay with my daughter as I type whose making a pot) then you start to  find where things are stashed online.

for  example, Asisbiz is a vast Smörgåsbord of "collected" images, including lots of photos! 

here's the 109E's

https://www.asisbiz.com/Bf-109E.html

 

I can for example  you  have Helmut Wick's 109 for  example 

http://falkeeins.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Helmut Wick

and more

https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109E/JG2-Stab.html

 

A better source for accurate photo captioning and history is  Falkeeins blog (he's a  member here)

http://falkeeins.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/ebay-emils.html

 

note there has a VAST outpouring on Luftwaffe images being auctioned on Ebay.de over the last decade, which has added a huge amount to the available pool of knowledge.

 

Lots of Jagdschwader added yellow  noses, rudders, wing tips and even tailplane  tips as quick ID markings.

You might  want  to have a browse and see what takes your fancy!

 

HTH

T

 

[Gorby]

34 minutes ago, BIG X said:

I do plan on making more 109's - but maybe not Airfix...

I recommend Eduard - great value and quality. Even some of the 'weekend' 109's come with seat-belts and engine detail.

[BIG X]

4 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

I see my name mentioned,  crikey there are  many more  experts  on 109's out there, but if you spend a great deal of your time online while on parent duties (I'm discussing Das clay with my daughter as I type whose making a pot) then you start to  find where things are stashed online.

for  example, Asisbiz is a vast Smörgåsbord of "collected" images, including lots of photos! 

here's the 109E's

https://www.asisbiz.com/Bf-109E.html

 

I can for example  you  have Helmut Wick's 109 for  example 

http://falkeeins.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Helmut Wick

and more

https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109E/JG2-Stab.html

 

A better source for accurate photo captioning and history is  Falkeeins blog (he's a  member here)

http://falkeeins.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/ebay-emils.html

 

note there has a VAST outpouring on Luftwaffe images being auctioned on Ebay.de over the last decade, which has added a huge amount to the available pool of knowledge.

 

Lots of Jagdschwader added yellow  noses, rudders, wing tips and even tailplane  tips as quick ID markings.

You might  want  to have a browse and see what takes your fancy!

 

HTH

T

 

 

Thanks for this @Troy Smith - it looks like my Saturday 'free time' will be well spent - Cheers - Steve

[Pauls9cb]

Hi BigX - You seem to have created a bit of a conundrum by prefering RLM 02/71 splinter camo with RLM 04 (custard?) nose and tail. My impression is that when the yellow id panels started appearing in various areas on the 109s (mid/late Aug 1940), most units were also darkening the fuselage sides with random light or heavy mottling of either RLM 02.71 or both. There are exceptions such as the 9th Staffel JG 26 profile you've found and other a/c from this staffel had similar markings:-

Yellow 1 (Gerhard Schoepfel) shown in various pics with yellow wingtips and a triangular segment  at the top of the rudder in yellow but no yellow nose. If you looked at his history, he was an interesting guy and probably as Aug turned to Sept, he may well have had the nose also painted yellow, as well as the whole rudder except for his victory markings..

Yelow 9 no yellow rudder but cowling and spinner in RLM 04 back until a vertical line behind the supercharger air intake.

There's also White 4 from 4/JG 26 (W Nr 1190) the a/c displayed in Duxford's BoB hangar partly renovated. This is my own favourite although there's some discussion about whether the splinter camo is 02/71 or locally-mixed greys more like RLM 71 with 74 as the Duxford renovation appears. Yellow nose and rudder though and plenty of pics. Here's one I did of this a/c.

 

By the time the yellow id panels were common, most a/c from JG2,3,27,51,53,77 had some form of mottling on the fuselages. Maybe Franz von Werra's W Nr 1480 might be worth looking at - simple-ish splinter bit with white rudder and wingtips? I see Troy has suggested various links for you to look at which I'm sure are good tips although All JG 2's a/c were heavily mottled inclusing Wick's own a/c.

Lots of luck

Paul

[BIG X]

5 minutes ago, Pauls9cb said:

Hi BigX - You seem to have created a bit of a conundrum by prefering RLM 02/71 splinter camo with RLM 04 (custard?) nose and tail. My impression is that when the yellow id panels started appearing in various areas on the 109s (mid/late Aug 1940), most units were also darkening the fuselage sides with random light or heavy mottling of either RLM 02.71 or both. There are exceptions such as the 9th Staffel JG 26 profile you've found and other a/c from this staffel had similar markings:-

Yellow 1 (Gerhard Schoepfel) shown in various pics with yellow wingtips and a triangular segment  at the top of the rudder in yellow but no yellow nose. If you looked at his history, he was an interesting guy and probably as Aug turned to Sept, he may well have had the nose also painted yellow, as well as the whole rudder except for his victory markings..

Yelow 9 no yellow rudder but cowling and spinner in RLM 04 back until a vertical line behind the supercharger air intake.

There's also White 4 from 4/JG 26 (W Nr 1190) the a/c displayed in Duxford's BoB hangar partly renovated. This is my own favourite although there's some discussion about whether the splinter camo is 02/71 or locally-mixed greys more like RLM 71 with 74 as the Duxford renovation appears. Yellow nose and rudder though and plenty of pics. Here's one I did of this a/c.

 

By the time the yellow id panels were common, most a/c from JG2,3,27,51,53,77 had some form of mottling on the fuselages. Maybe Franz von Werra's W Nr 1480 might be worth looking at - simple-ish splinter bit with white rudder and wingtips? I see Troy has suggested various links for you to look at which I'm sure are good tips although All JG 2's a/c were heavily mottled inclusing Wick's own a/c.

Lots of luck

Paul

 

That is lovely - now do I have that tiger's head in my collection...

[Antb]

1 hour ago, BIG X said:

...BTW @Antb you know I said there was zero chance of me doing a WIP thread - well I slept on it and realised...

A good WIP can be used to get help as well as share expertise - which I am lacking at present.

So all help gratefully received  Steve

 

And that is awesome Steve! Looking forward to seeing how you get on. 

 

Here's one I did earlier this year. I was looking for the tigers head but couldn't see it in your decal stash. @Troy Smith was a great help with this one for me. 

 

Sorry the pic is rubbish. I will try and get a better one from PB...... 

 

 

My favourite build and probably my best to date 

 

Edit. Freshly downloaded from photobucket. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2017 by Antb

[Pauls9cb]

Hi again Steve,

I'm not sure where Antb got the Tiger's emblem for 4/JG 26.  The emblem on my pictured model is 1:32 scale as is the model. When I did a 1:48 scale model of the same a/c, Cutting Edge used to have the markings for this a/c on a sheet that I think was called Augsburg Egles Part 1 but I have to say the Staffel Tiger head emblem on that sheet was (in my opinion) more beige than yellow (see the diorama pic further down) or what I chose which is a slightly orangey shade rather than what looks like RLM 04 on Antb's model. I have to say, I'm possibly a bit anoraky about  W Nr 1190 and I ended up painting my own emblem on a bigger scale and then reducing it down to 1:32 scale for my model. I plumped for my slightly orangey background colour after some close examination of shade differences on b&w pics of the a/c while it was sent on a tour round N America where there is a clear difference between the "custard" yellow of the cowling and the staffel emblem colour (check out the Luftwaffe Crash Archive pics for 30/8/40). If you decide this is the one you want to base your kit on, I could perhaps send you a few bits of waterslide decal paper with some of these reduced to 1:48 scale. They'd be on white decal paper where you'd need to trim carefully around the image to avoid the white background showing when you put the decal on the fuselage. This is how I did the emblem on the pic I posted in my earlier comment. You wouldn't need this is you've found a suitable decal sheet with the markings for this a/c, but I couldn't in 1:32 scale so I made my own.

You should also note that White 4 (W Nr 1190) had the old style canopy like the Bf 109 E-3, even though it had been field-modified to E-4 specs and had the uprated DB 601N engine and wasn't equipped with a bomb rack. Here are the pics of 2 other versions I've made which perhaps illustrate some of my comments on the emblem colour. The first is as close as I could get to the way the a/c in Duxford looks as a complete a/c, with the emblem coloured as the restorers finished it. The model's emblem is hand-painted so looks a bit rough.

 

 

The next  is the first version I made (1:48 scale) with the emblem from the Cutting Edge decal sheet I mentioned. It's set in a diorama base somewhere in N France.

 

 

You probably have reached saturation point by now on this particular a/c, but this is a close up of the staffel emblem as applied to the restoration up at Duxford. I copied this as best I could on the model in the second picture but have since decided on close examination of the contemporary b&w images that the colour's a bit too browny/orange.

 

 

You may decide to go for a different a/c of course. It's difficult to judge but the canopy under your masking looks more like a typical E-4 style with the heavier squared frame rather than the E-3 style of either W Nr 1190 or the 9/JG 26 a/c you've got in the profile. I guess it depends how accurate you need to be for your own satisfaction. As you can guess, I suffer from the "detail devil". Whatever you decided, lots of luck. All these 109s have fascinating camo patterns and I've also yet to master the mottling in scale. Cheers.

Paul

 

[BIG X]

Great diorama  

 

 

[BIG X]

OK - Update - I found this...

...custard nose / custard tail / no mottling AND I have all the necessary decals - RESULT!!!

Apparently this is...

 

Messerschmitt Bf-109E-? Yellow 11 9./JG 26 Fw Artur Beese Aug 1940 - crashed near Calais 29th August 1940

 

...looks like I have fitted the wrong canopy though

So - am I bovvered - no - this supposed to be fun  

[Antb]

2 minutes ago, BIG X said:

So - am I bovvered - no - this supposed to be fun  

 

That's the spirit 

 

Looking forward to seeing her stickers up. 

[Gorby]

This is similar but has the square canopy.

As you say, it's supposed to be fun so go with what you like the look of. Also, there seems to be a lot of variation from one plane to another. So it could have existed with your canopy. 

[Graham Boak]

That canopy and no cannon means an E-1.  If you care.

[tango98]

Why not do Gerhard Schöpfel's Yellow 1 from the III./JG 26? Unfortunately, no yellow nose but carried an inverted triangle of yellow on the top of the rudder and also had yellow tips to the wings and tail planes.

It also carried the "Schlageter" S in a shield beneath the windscreen and a red 'hell hound/griffon' emblem beneath the cockpit. There was no fuselage mottle of any kind and by the evening of 18 August it had 12 victory marks on each side of the rudder.

There are a number of photos of this 109 on the web.

As Graham notes, Beese' 109 was an E-1 and at the time of being written off at Calais on 24 August it was fitted with the earlier canopy. the octane triangle (almost) on the fuselage spine was yellow with a red border.

 

Cheers

Dave

Edited July 8, 2017 by tango98
added words

[BIG X]

5 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

That canopy and no cannon means an E-1.  If you care.

Yeh but...

 

I have cannon bulges and intend to fit the cannons later (too be broken almost immediately - if things go to form)