Lightning OCU Squadron Numberplate

[Meatbox8]

When I first read the subject header I immediately thought 145 Squadron.  Wouldn't it be nice to see some Lightnings with the Middleton St. George squadron bars? 

[Meatbox8]

On 06/07/2017 at 8:02 PM, XV107 said:

I forgot that the scenario will be complicated when 5 loses the Sentinel, since it is a particularly senior numberplate and is almost certain to reform - could be the final 'new' Typhoon squadron. The rumour about IV has variations - one theory is that rather than a second squadron, another numberplate (possibly 19) will be assigned to the Hawk squadron (hence 19's absence from some of the speculation about the Lightning OCU), and IV(AC) will re-equip as an F-35 unit or a Typhoon squadron.

 

This is based on the notion that we could then end up with 1, 2, 3 and 4 on Typhoons, plus 6, 9 [not a certainty] and 11. There are further suggestions that 29 will lose the 'R' suffix.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if, buy 2023, we don't have a force that looks something like this:

 

Typhoon - 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 9, 11, 12, 29

Lightning - 5, 207, 617, 809 + unknown

 

Protector - 13, 31, 39

Poseidon - 42, 120, 201

 

Hawk - 19

 

And Tigers (just cubs at the moment) have started stalking the corridors of power...

Wow.  Well predicted with the Poseiden (OCU excepted of course).  120 Squadron is an interesting choice because it seems to have been chosen on the basis of its rather illustrious WW2 history and as a post-War MR unit rather than on seniority.  Nothing wrong with that in my book but I thought seniority was the only rational for RAF numberplate allocation. The unit wasn't formed until 1918 and was disbanded the following year and not re-formed until 1941.  On the basis of seniority only it shouldn't really be in the running so maybe there is some hope that a Firebird or Tiger may adorn a Typhoon in the future.

[junglierating]

Well I'm up for 801 and 899 to join 809 and maybe something else....I think (have read) the original talk when the SHAR was forming was to have 800,801 and 802....well nutz to 800 ....bl@@dy scrimshankers blah blah blah LMAO.

[XV107]

9 hours ago, Meatbox8 said:

120 Squadron is an interesting choice because it seems to have been chosen on the basis of its rather illustrious WW2 history and as a post-War MR unit rather than on seniority.

 

For those who know what I'm about to say from a previous thread, apologies for the repetition...

 

It's because 120 (along with 617) was awarded its standard by royal command - George VI, no less -  ahead of the normal 25 years' accumulated service qualifying limit (only squadrons which have the 25 years can have a standard awarded; these days, no standard means no reformation as a squadron). This has given both 120 and 617 special status, whereby the award of the standard trumps the usual seniority rule. Now, the early award of the standard was, of course, because of its performance in WW2, but the status for both squadrons, while not 100% formal, can be seen throughout the 1950s, 60s and 70s in decisions over squadron numberplates. Phrases along the lines of '120/617 is the most junior of the numberplates under consideration, but the early award of its standard means that...' abound.

 

Of course, what this means is that 120 will be near to the top of the seniority list in the end because it survives/gets reformed and accrues more service, and thus...

 

Also, because of role association, the numberplates available for MPA units are fairly limited unless a numberplate not associated with the maritime role at all is chosen, or 230 is re-equipped with MPA (remember that it used to be a flying boat squadron)

[Vickers McFunbus]

On 13/07/2017 at 9:59 AM, Dave Fleming said:

 

Poseidon Squadrons confirmed as 120 and 201, so only three numerals need to be ordered for the doorplates

 

Not so. Cs and Xs for 120! 5 numerals!

[XV107]

Hopefully, 120 will make their hangar roof less readily accessible to 201 this time round if they choose to paint the squadron number there...

[Paolo6691]

On 14/07/2017 at 10:15 PM, XV107 said:

 

 

It's because 120 (along with 617) was awarded its standard by royal command - George VI, no less -  ahead of the normal 25 years' accumulated service qualifying limit (only squadrons which have the 25 years can have a standard awarded; these days, no standard means no reformation as a squadron).

 

Hi XV107

 

Do you mean that with the very small numbers of squadrons in existence now there is no hope for a squadron with less the 25 years service, or it is a formal rule, no squadron without standard will be considered?

 

Thank you

[rayprit]

54 minutes ago, Paolo6691 said:

 

Hi XV107

 

Do you mean that with the very small numbers of squadrons in existence now there is no hope for a squadron with less the 25 years service, or it is a formal rule, no squadron without standard will be considered?

 

Thank you

 

Thats the way it works in the army!  Starting from figures 1, retain service recognition.............I was in 3 Squadron RCT in Singapore when it disbanded in 1971.  Rather than let the Squadron number disapear they removed a squadron number further up the line, in my case 23 Tank Transporter Squadron...........23 Squadron number was recinded and it became 3 Tank Transporter Squadron.........23 Tank transporter Squadron disapeared in 1971.  6 of 3 Squadron personal were transferred to 23 tk transporter Squadron, sort of transferring the old blood from 3 Sqdn to begin the transition from 23 tank transporter to 3 Tank Transporter Sqdn.

various regiments may be raised possibly for a temporay role with a number completely out of sequence, but once there task is done they also are recinded

[XV107]

1 hour ago, Paolo6691 said:

 

Hi XV107

 

Do you mean that with the very small numbers of squadrons in existence now there is no hope for a squadron with less the 25 years service, or it is a formal rule, no squadron without standard will be considered?

 

Thank you

 

The rules are always open to flexibility, but the principle that to be considered for reformation, a squadron had to have a standard was laid out in the late 1960s.The rules for Reserve squadrons have always been slightly different, so it isn't impossible - as long as the notion of the Reserve number plate endures - that you might see a squadron which hasn't been awarded its standard re-emerging. I forget if 76 Squadron fits the bill here; when it reformed, it was far from the top of the seniority list and I think lacking a standard - but because it was formed for a specific purpose at Linton on Ouse, the numberplate was chosen on the basis that 76 had an historic link with the station.

[junglierating]

On ‎14‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 0:46 PM, Meatbox8 said:

When I first read the subject header I immediately thought 145 Squadron.  Wouldn't it be nice to see some Lightnings with the Middleton St. George squadron bars? 

Hmm would look pretty but apart from us 'geeks' everyone else would say its Nationalist.....brings  me of course to 151 Squadron (hoots man!)  LMAO cant see that happening anymore than the return of HMS Ulster or Londonderry/Derry.Mind you with the latest coalition who knows  

[Paolo6691]

Very interesting 

 

Thank you.

 

Do you know if there is a list extant with all the squadrons that received their standards before the 1960?

 

[XV107]

There are several lists in the National Archives at Kew which discuss future (i.e. in the 1960s and 1970s) force laydown for the RAF (with some very interesting ideas as to which squadron should get what type of aircraft) which never came to pass. The listing of seniority invariably have some indication as to which squadrons have a standard, so as to allow those reading the documentation to work out instantly which squadrons couldn't be in the running for reformation.

 

In terms of the date of award of standard, this requires a little more digging, but the information is out there. I forget, off the top of my head, whether there is a single consolidated list which tells you that (say) 1 Squadron had its standard awarded in 1943 [but not presented until 1953], while 112's was awarded in 1971 [presented 1972]. Date of actual presentation of the standard could come some time after the date of qualification; in 112's case, the 25 year period was reached in 1969, but the squadron didn't request the award until 1971.

 

The easiest way of checking without a list is to go to http://www.rafweb.org/Organsation/Org-index.htm#Squadrons and go through the histories, noting which units were awarded standards and when. Some squadrons have question marks in the relevant bit of their entry, for example, 37 Squadron (which received its standard in 1964, so the award must have been around 1960).

[Meatbox8]

On 7/17/2017 at 9:37 AM, XV107 said:

There are several lists in the National Archives at Kew which discuss future (i.e. in the 1960s and 1970s) force laydown for the RAF (with some very interesting ideas as to which squadron should get what type of aircraft) which never came to pass. The listing of seniority invariably have some indication as to which squadrons have a standard, so as to allow those reading the documentation to work out instantly which squadrons couldn't be in the running for reformation.

 

In terms of the date of award of standard, this requires a little more digging, but the information is out there. I forget, off the top of my head, whether there is a single consolidated list which tells you that (say) 1 Squadron had its standard awarded in 1943 [but not presented until 1953], while 112's was awarded in 1971 [presented 1972]. Date of actual presentation of the standard could come some time after the date of qualification; in 112's case, the 25 year period was reached in 1969, but the squadron didn't request the award until 1971.

 

The easiest way of checking without a list is to go to http://www.rafweb.org/Organsation/Org-index.htm#Squadrons and go through the histories, noting which units were awarded standards and when. Some squadrons have question marks in the relevant bit of their entry, for example, 37 Squadron (which received its standard in 1964, so the award must have been around 1960).

Hmm.  112 Squadron.  Typhoon looks like it was made to have a shark mouth painted on.  

[Truro Model Builder]

On 8/9/2017 at 0:07 PM, Meatbox8 said:

Hmm.  112 Squadron.  Typhoon looks like it was made to have a shark mouth painted on.  

 

Around the intakes... I like your train of thought.