First Three Type 26 Ordered

[4scourge7]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/three-frigates-worth-3-7bn-secure-shipyard-jobs-for-decades-1-4492329

 

Have they got the cost right?

Doesn`t that make them more expensive than the Type 45 destroyer per ship?

 

Lawks!

 

Cheers, Ian

[bentwaters81tfw]

A step in the right direction. Gives us time to recruit and train the crews.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

I expect the contract cost for the first three includes the engineering and design where most of the intelligence is needed and the highest wages are paid. That design is repeatable across all ships in class so the unit cost for subsequent vessels will be much lower.

 

The Type 45 cost per vessel would have been much higher if they had only built HMS Daring.

 

The design still needs to be paid for. When using well proven technology the engineering, procurement and construction costs of large projects is normally spliy roughly 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. With defense projects that use cutting edge technology it should be obvious that many things just don't work first time and need redesigned and reengineered until it does work. Engineering costs are therefore always higher on defense projects.

[4scourge7]

So, it is £3.7 billion for the first three, then `upwards` of five billion for the remainder. This remains an estimate as the deal for the remaining five won`t be done until early 2020s.

I don`t know if that includes the £1 billion invested already, but I assume it does. 

This still makes them, R&D and all, more expensive than the Type 45 destroyers, although this may become a bone of contention when the six T45 get their Project Napier refit, said by the UK Defence Journal to be £280 million.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/cost-type-45-destroyer-fix-revealed/

 

Almost a year ago, Commons Defence Select Com. established £8 billion cost estimate of the T26 with Harriet Baldwin and the First Sea Lord.

http://data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/defence-committee/naval-procurement-type-26-and-type-45/oral/35261.html

 

I didn`t realise it had become so costly. I only hope the nation gets it`s £8 billions` worth.

And, of course, the addressing of the recruitment issues that Bentwaters refers to. 

Our island nation needs the best ASW that money can buy. If we get it, those responsible should rightly be applauded.

 

Here`s hoping.

 

 

Cheers, Ian

 

[Paul Bradley]

Didn't I read somewhere that there were supposed to be 12 Type 26 originally, but 4 were cut and 6 or 8 'cheap' multipurpose frigates were going to be substituted to get hull numbers up a bit?

[Paul E]

1 hour ago, Paul Bradley said:

Didn't I read somewhere that there were supposed to be 12 Type 26 originally, but 4 were cut and 6 or 8 'cheap' multipurpose frigates were going to be substituted to get hull numbers up a bit?

The "cheap" multi-purpose frigate will be the Type 31 and the design is still subject to competition. It is likely that these will not be built in Scotland.

[Paul E]

15 hours ago, ian buick said:

 

Our island nation needs the best ASW that money can buy. If we get it, those responsible should rightly be applauded.

 

Had the RN / MoD stuck to the primary ASW requirement they may actually be able to afford 12! One has to question what the space allocation for Strike Length VLS or the automated mission bay handling bring to the ASW portfolio. The first is for land strike and the other is for Special Force interdiction. Surely these would have been more suitable for the GP frigate.

 

I suspect that the main reason for 8 Type 26's is that the ASW Sonar is being retrofitted from the Type 23's and only 8 of them have the Towed Array. The 997 radar is also being brought across from the Type 23's to reduce(?) costs.

[4scourge7]

4 hours ago, Paul Bradley said:

Didn't I read somewhere that there were supposed to be 12 Type 26 originally, but 4 were cut and 6 or 8 'cheap' multipurpose frigates were going to be substituted to get hull numbers up a bit?

They were originally to have replaced the thirteen Type 23 on a one-to-one basis; then eight advanced ASW frigates and five cheaper`multi-purpose` frigates using the same hull; and now just eight Type 26 with a smaller, cheaper Type 31 making up a class of `at least five`.

 

2 hours ago, Paul E said:

Had the RN / MoD stuck to the primary ASW requirement they may actually be able to afford 12! One has to question what the space allocation for Strike Length VLS or the automated mission bay handling bring to the ASW portfolio. The first is for land strike and the other is for Special Force interdiction. Surely these would have been more suitable for the GP frigate.

 

I suspect that the main reason for 8 Type 26's is that the ASW Sonar is being retrofitted from the Type 23's and only 8 of them have the Towed Array. The 997 radar is also being brought across from the Type 23's to reduce(?) costs.

I see your point, and again, I think the original two designs using the same hull idea has made the Type 26 very big for a frigate (even bigger and of greater displacement than the Batch 3, Type 22 frigates that were essentially destroyers in all but name). Ironically enough, that idea has now been binned in favour of the mix of T26/31 hulls.

Of course, way back when, when this was the `Future Surface Combatant`, there was to be a `C1, C2, and C3` version.

 

The possible ASW advantage of strike length Mk 41 launchers is the ability to take American ASROC, or similar system. How likely or practical this is, however, is open to debate.

 

Hope against hope that a world-class price tag delivers a world-beating ASW frigate. With Artisan, Sonar 2087, and Sea Ceptor etc already in operation we can hope that the some of the risks associated with the T45 are mitigated on the Type 26.

 

Cheers, Ian

[junglierating]

Getting world class kit or even home grown world class kit isnt the problem.

Its the spares and through life support that is the problem