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PhantomBigStu

Airbus Grey

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Posted (edited)

Probably been done to death but I am complete outsider when it comes to civies, I've picked up the revell A350 to do as test mule to figure out why my last attempt at spraying white was a failure, its possible it could go well and in that case I like to have a nice finish build, so where can I find a grey to use on it, I know xtracolour do it, but I'm an acrylic painter, though rattle cans remain an option.

Edited by PhantomBigStu

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Following a recommendation from Ray Charles of 26 Decals I use Holts HL Grey 01.

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2 hours ago, Skodadriver said:

Following a recommendation from Ray Charles of 26 Decals I use Holts HL Grey 01.

 

I'm with Skodadriver - the Holts rattle can goes on evenly and give a nice finish.  Used on my A380 in last years Airliner group build.

 

20161120_103242_zpsdyeyrrdl.jpg

 

I couldn't find this paint in Halfords but got it at my local Wilco Motosave.

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If it's just a test mule, you may not be too fussed about accuracy but, if you're talking about Airbus Grey for the wings, they are actually an off-white.  See this thread.

 

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Posted (edited)

Probably am taking this too seriously tbh though looking at the instructions it's seems there are two different shades of grey on the wings which complicates things

Edited by PhantomBigStu

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The "Airbus grey" is the lighter outer area of the upper wing and complete lower wing.  The darker central upper section is a protective coating ?Aeroguard? - on my model it is a bit too dark BUT the colour varies a lot depending on the lighting conditions.

 

Boeing airliner wings are very similar, with a central "Coroguard" section.

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Posted (edited)

Hi all,

 

Just to pull the relevant bits from my post in buzz's link:

 

If you are building the Flight Test Markings boxing of the Revell kit, the wings are BAC 707 grey overall with a grey elastomeric finish on the upper wing box (this is a similar shade to the outer grey)

 

If you build the Carbon Fibre Livery aircraft F-WWYB. the upper wings are Matterhorn White with a white elastomeric finish on the upper wing box (this too is a similar shade to the Matterhorn White) and the lower surfaces are BAC 707 grey.

 

All production A350 wings are Matterhorn White overall, also with the white elastomeric finish on the upper wing box. Following on from my original post I understand that the use of white is actually part of the certification of the wing structure due to thermal tolerance requirements; the carbon fibre wing has to remain within a stricter temperature range since it cannot expand and contract as much as a metallic wing is able to. Boeing 787 wings are also overall white for the same reason.

 

I'm planning to build a Finnair A350 for which Halfords has the required RAL9003 white available for the fuselage. I haven't had a chance to properly investigate with a match for Matterhorn White yet, but maybe a white primer could provide a solution. Some time at the paint racks in Halfords awaits... 

 

The term 'Airbus Grey' is something of a myth. I think it comes from when Xtracolor obtained paint chips from contacts within the industry in the 1990s; I  have heard that many of the colours such as the BA Landor and World Colours, the mid '90s US Airways, British Midland 1996 scheme and the final Northwest livery were actually provided by someone in Boeing at that time. I suspect Hannants may have received some samples from a similar source in Airbus and the light grey chip was simply marked as 'grey'. This may have been assumed as different to BAC 707 'Boeing Grey' and entered the range as such. Since then modellers have taken this to mean they are different shades. Being fortunate to have had access to documentation not readily accessible outside of the airline industry I have searched for evidence for use of a specific 'Airbus Grey' and each time it has led to BAC 707. There is even a document in the Airbus Process and Material Specification Manual titled "Characteristics of Grey Color BAC 707 Top Coat" which sets out the standards for supply of the paint. More recently the use of the code M9001 has appeared, especially on the A380 and A350, but following the paper trail I ended up back at good old BAC 707! I wish I could post the physical evidence of this but as it is all proprietary documentation I'm legally not permitted to.

 

A warning for those using Xtracolor paints, be wary of using the latest batch of X301 - the paint in the tins I have has a distinct greenish 'concrete' tinge to the dried finish; it's very noticeable when placed next to a sample from an earlier tin which was a good match to the original. I've gone back to using the alternative X150 Voodoo Grey instead. I'll have to find a stockist of the Holts HL01, it looks very close on FortyEighter's lovely A380. For the record, the real A380 upper wingbox colour is RAL7004. This finish is called Aeroflex and has now replaced Corroguard on all Airbus metallic winged aircraft.

 

This has ended up as a a longer post than intended, but I hope that it answers some questions on the A350 wing colours and the grey in particular.

 

Jonathan

Edited by XV571
To correct the RAL code for the Aeroflex finish

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Hello

Matterhorn white is an off-white colour. Usually the only way one can tell this is not gloss white colour is to check plane's nose in front of windshield. This is usually in anti-glare matt white colour, and against this area one can determine the rest of the aircraft is actually in gloss white with slight grey tint. Cheers

Jure

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15 hours ago, XV571 said:

......

 

Quote

A warning for those using Xtracolor paints, be wary of using the latest batch of X301 - the paint in the tins I have has a distinct greenish 'concrete' tinge to the dried finish; it's very noticeable when placed next to a sample from an earlier tin which was a good match to the original. I've gone back to using the alternative X150 Voodoo Grey instead. I'll have to find a stockist of the Holts HL01, it looks very close on FortyEighter's lovely A380. For the record, the real A380 upper wingbox colour is RAL9004. This finish is called Aeroflex and has now replaced Corroguard on all Airbus metallic winged aircraft.

 

This has ended up as a a longer post than intended, but I hope that it answers some questions on the A350 wing colours and the grey in particular.

 

Jonathan

 

Hi Jonathan,

 

I hesitate to question your obviously expert knowledge but I had understood that the best match for the upper wingbox colour on current Airbus aircraft was RAL7004 not 9004.  RAL7004 is "Signalgrau" for which Revell 374 is a very close match.  RAL 9004 is "Signalschwarz" which, as its name implies, is black.  It may be that Aeroflex is black(ish) when it's applied but on every Airbus aircraft I've ever seen the "painted" effect is definitely grey rather than black.  I used Holts HL Grey 01 and Revell 374 on my Air Serbia A319 a few months ago and it looks OK to me (although I suppose I would say that!)

 

Regards

 

Dave G

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Thanks guys so 

707 Grey & RAL7004, as it happens revell 371 is similar to 707 grey from my googlings, looks like Ill use both. Though I do recall something being wrong with one of those pots I have so may have to buy a 2nd 

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6 hours ago, Skodadriver said:

 

 

Hi Jonathan,

 

I hesitate to question your obviously expert knowledge but I had understood that the best match for the upper wingbox colour on current Airbus aircraft was RAL7004 not 9004.  RAL7004 is "Signalgrau" for which Revell 374 is a very close match.  RAL 9004 is "Signalschwarz" which, as its name implies, is black.  It may be that Aeroflex is black(ish) when it's applied but on every Airbus aircraft I've ever seen the "painted" effect is definitely grey rather than black.  I used Holts HL Grey 01 and Revell 374 on my Air Serbia A319 a few months ago and it looks OK to me (although I suppose I would say that!)

 

Regards

 

Dave G

 

Hi Dave,

 

You're absolutely correct. Aeroflex is indeed RAL7004. I read the wrong column in my notes; RAL7004 is coded as M9004 in the Airbus system and, not for the first time, I've mixed the two up :wall:. I've gone and corrected my original post so if anyone else finds this thread in the future the RAL number is right!

 

Thanks for highlighting the error,

 

Jonathan

 

P.S. Love your Air Serbia A319; the Holts paint does look right, I'll definitely have to try it out.

 

5 hours ago, PhantomBigStu said:

Thanks guys so 

707 Grey & RAL7004, as it happens revell 371 is similar to 707 grey from my googlings, looks like Ill use both. Though I do recall something being wrong with one of those pots I have so may have to buy a 2nd 

 

Hi Stu,

 

Revell 371 looks like a good alternative. Revell quote it to be RAL7035 in their enamel range which I've also seen mentioned as a match to BA Pearl Grey in the Landor livery although it has a different BAC code. Unless you plan to use it for practice here's no real need for the RAL 7004 though, the upper wing box colour will also be BAC 707, here's a good picture of the left wing of MSN003 F-WZGG: http://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/367418/f-wzgg-airbus-industrie-airbus-a350-900/

 

Hope you have better luck with the paints this time around.

 

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That looks very different from the two distinct greys I've seen on builds, will just go with the single grey then :) 

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Posted (edited)

Well the pots seems to be ok, tested out both revellers does seem to be too much contrast for 374 to be suitable for the coroguard 

34828665413_07e8f4629d_b.jpg

 

Edited by PhantomBigStu

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Being an idiot I heard ford dove gray was decent (and was annoyed at the revell aqua when the fourth coat produced massive runs) and as I was in halfords at the time picked some up not knowing its too brown till I sprayed it (picture via google) may just persist with it 

 

Image result for ford dove grey britmodeller

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Posted (edited)
On 28/06/2017 at 11:03 PM, XV571 said:

 

Revell 371 looks like a good alternative. Revell quote it to be RAL7035 in their enamel range which I've also seen mentioned as a match to BA Pearl Grey in the Landor livery although it has a different BAC code. Unless you plan to use it for practice here's no real need for the RAL 7004 though, the upper wing box colour will also be BAC 707, here's a good picture of the left wing of MSN003 F-WZGG: http://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/367418/f-wzgg-airbus-industrie-airbus-a350-900/

 

Hope you have better luck with the paints this time around.

 

 

Me again, in the end I've used some ford polar grey I had lying around and whilst it is darker than the revell 371 is good enough for me. Going back to your post all the depictions of the 350 prototype show a distinct contrast on the wing, is there a photo of the wing ABOUT from a distance to see if looks like the closeup or not? Testing all my greys to see if I can find a slightly darker grey to show some contrast, but if it doens't show from a distance I won't bother

Edited by PhantomBigStu

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Hi Stu,

 

Here's a quick sample from a trawl of the Airbus A350-900 test fleet on Airliners.net:

 

This is F-WWCF MSN0002 the original Carbon Fibre liveried aircraft:

 

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Airbus/Airbus-A350-941/3907671/L?qsp=eJxtjjEOwjAMRe/iuQOgqjTZ6MJIBy5gOQYihTRyPFBVvTtpQExs/u/bT16Apqj80uucGCxkRqEHNJBQ8JnBLoBeSPCmA2ZPn7X%2BuG9%2B/MyR5W8D9tDtTM3Bx03ftcYUeZ5Eh7lkh8onIk7K7ssv4li2ijPVP%2B7lsEgTy1hn6NvCnc8pYHWwog%2Bwrm9hyUK8

 

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Airbus/Airbus-A350-941/4085597/L?qsp=eJxtjjEOwjAMRe/iuQOgqjTZ6MJIBy5gOQYihTRyPFBVvTtpQExs/u/bT16Apqj80uucGCxkRqEHNJBQ8JnBLoBeSPCmA2ZPn7X%2BuG9%2B/MyR5W8D9tDtTM3Bx03ftcYUeZ5Eh7lkh8onIk7K7ssv4li2ijPVP%2B7lsEgTy1hn6NvCnc8pYHWwog%2Bwrm9hyUK8

 

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Airbus/Airbus-A350-941/4227997/L?qsp=eJxtjjEOwjAMRe/iuQOgqjTZ6MJIBy5gOQYihTRyPFBVvTtpQExs/u/bT16Apqj80uucGCxkRqEHNJBQ8JnBLoBeSPCmA2ZPn7X%2BuG9%2B/MyR5W8D9tDtTM3Bx03ftcYUeZ5Eh7lkh8onIk7K7ssv4li2ijPVP%2B7lsEgTy1hn6NvCnc8pYHWwog%2Bwrm9hyUK8

 

This is F-WZNW MSN0004 used as the launch customer demonstrator:


http://www.airliners.net/photo/Airbus-Qatar-Airways/Airbus-A350-941/2472598/L?qsp=eJxtjjEOwjAMRe/iuQOgqjTZ6MIIAxewHAORQhs5Hqiq3p0kRUxsfv/bT16AplH5rbc5MlhIjEJPaCCi4CuBXQC9kOBdB0yetrX%2BuG9%2B%2BZlHlr8N2EO3M5WDH4u%2Ba43J8jSJDnNmh8onIo7K7ptfxLGUihPVPx71sIws1436NqPzKQasFlb0Adb1A9sIQwU%3D

 

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Airbus-Qatar-Airways/Airbus-A350-941/2473510/L?qsp=eJxtjjEOwjAMRe/iuQOgqjTZ6MIIAxewHAORQhs5Hqiq3p0kRUxsfv/bT16AplH5rbc5MlhIjEJPaCCi4CuBXQC9kOBdB0yetrX%2BuG9%2B%2BZlHlr8N2EO3M5WDH4u%2Ba43J8jSJDnNmh8onIo7K7ptfxLGUihPVPx71sIws1436NqPzKQasFlb0Adb1A9sIQwU%3D

 

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Airbus-Qatar-Airways/Airbus-A350-941/2475237/L?qsp=eJxtjjEOwjAMRe/iuQOgqjTZ6MIIAxewHAORQhs5Hqiq3p0kRUxsfv/bT16AplH5rbc5MlhIjEJPaCCi4CuBXQC9kOBdB0yetrX%2BuG9%2B%2BZlHlr8N2EO3M5WDH4u%2Ba43J8jSJDnNmh8onIo7K7ptfxLGUihPVPx71sIws1436NqPzKQasFlb0Adb1A9sIQwU%3D

 

Note that on both aircraft the wing box Aeroflex finish is a slightly different shade to the areas outside the wing spars. The other two A350-900s MSN0001 F-WWXB & MSN0003 F-WWZG would be the same.

 

To complete the test fleet here is F-WWYB MSN0005 which was the second Carbon Fibre livery jet and has the unique white upper/grey lower combination I mentioned earlier. This picture shows the combination of white inspar wing box and grey outer areas very well:


http://www.airliners.net/photo/Airbus/Airbus-A350-941/2513591/L?qsp=eJxtjjEOwjAMRe/iuQOgUppsdGEsAxewHAORQho5Hqiq3p2mRUxsfv/bT56Ahqj81tuYGCxkRqEnVJBQ8JXBToBeSPCuHWZP21p72le//MKR5W8D9tDszMrBx6JvamMWeR5Eu3Fhh8pnIk7K7pv34lhKxZnWPx7l8FhGlutGbb2g8zkFXC2s6APM8wfa4kME

 

Now that the A350-900 test programme is all but done, this aircraft seems to be going to be refurbished and sold on to Air Caraibes/French Blue. The fuselage has been stripped and a temporary protective finish called Propaco has been applied. The undersurface of the wings and the horizontal stabilisers still appear to be BAC707 so it's likely it could retain the original white/grey combination when it enters airline service. The wings aren't a customisable item of the livery so stripping these will have to be done very carefully. I doubt that the new owner will want to accept any increase in weight caused by extra paint on the wings.

 

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled-French-Blue/Airbus-A350-941/3914389/L?qsp=eJwtjbEKwkAQRP9lay0EC0mXFLZaCMFy2RviwZk7dldICPl3z8NuePOY2Ujy7Fj8sRZQRwZWedGBCiu/jbqNFFM0V/aY5178w6l61%2BM4PofqWVYf1koCO3oRFEf485sG6K%2BCSZuc6sWpBui9ZbqcKw/RSuK2AeeYaN%2B/WvIyVw%3D%3D

 

If the wings do remain in this scheme it could get interesting if one of the flaps or ailerons has to be changed and a standard white production version is installed!

 

I agree the Polar Grey looks on the dark side. Maybe you could try using the Revell 371 or Halfords Racking Grey for the outer wing and the Polar Grey for the inner wing box. That might produce the required contrast. :hmmm:

 

HTH

 

Jonathan

 

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Huge thanks for that, should be all I need. In the end I abandoned the polar grey route as i found I had to do so much masking onece putting the bits together, and found a nice Vallejo light grey that is a fraction darker than the 371 is much lighter than the polar grey and unlike the revell actual covers well. 

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No problem Stu, glad I could help.

 

Which Vallejo grey have you used? I'm always on the look-out for new options for airliner colours so any potential matches are useful to know about.

 

Jonathan

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, XV571 said:

No problem Stu, glad I could help.

 

Which Vallejo grey have you used? I'm always on the look-out for new options for airliner colours so any potential matches are useful to know about.

 

Jonathan

Mode color 907, seems I have Abby of work, whilst the wings felt smooth when I sanded them down, can see the uneven patchwork surface underneath, maybe I should have just painted over the many rattle can coats 

Edited by PhantomBigStu

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