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Lighter fluid with enamels?


sapperastro

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Just wondering if anyone uses lighter fluid (shellite in Australia) with enamel paint? I have read a couple of posts from about a year ago where another user successfully used this fluid to thin enamel paints (in particular, the much maligned new Humbrols) with great success. I am planning on picking up a bottle of shellite shortly but thought I would check to see if anyone here has already given it a go and how it worked out.

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Not sure about Shellite, I've used actual lighter fluid in the smaller metal dispenser bottle that hairdressers/tobacconists (do they still have such things) sell, good for thinning  a small amount, but very volatile so I wouldn't try & thin a tin with it.

Steve.

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Its a subject of considerable confusion when it comes to unravelling what different countries call their solvents. As I've always understood it, our shellite, which used to be called white spirits, not sure if that is still the case, is basically petrol without any additives, I use to use it in the small Primus self contained hiking stoves, good heat output, & better at altitude than the gas cookers. I've long wanted to know what it is we call whatever Humbrol etc use for thinners. I'd always though NZ & Aus used the same conventions for this, I know Bunnings has quite a lot of the Diggers products & their names seem similar to ours.

Steve.

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I only do this airbrush prep in a shed in my garden, never in my house!

 

I've used lighter fluid to thin Humbrol for airbrushing.

Look through results in my GBs and Yearbooks to judge the success.

It evaporates very quickly, leaving just the paint on the model.

I use cheap lighter fluid in 100ml tins from Poundland, the flip-up plastic spout makes it VERY easy to dispense into paint. Brands have included Newport, Bull, any ZigZag.

I mix my paint into a small breakfast size jam jar,  I save these whenever my work sends me to a hotel. Previously I use 35mm film canisters.

Lighter_Fluids.jpg

Stir the paint with a cappuccino stirrer to ensure consistent mixing - then airbrush away.

I airbrush in the open shed doorway, towards outside, so fumes go outside.

Door can't be closed whilst I'm in there, so weather does limit my airbrush time.

 

Finally. No matter how hard I've tried, pressures, neat lighter fluid, I have never turned my airbrush into a mini flamethrower.

 

Edited by theplasticsurgeon
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I was using lighter fluid but stopped as it seemed to cause a sort of clumping with my Humbrol enamels in particular colours. It is naptha but that is just a general term for petrol distillates in a certain range including white spirit and Turps substitue. 'Shellsol T' is the best of the commercially available Naptha types. It is essentially white spirit with the sulphur and other impurities removed.  Art material companies sell it 'With a bit of a hike in price' as 'odourless thinners' for oil painting.

 

Humbrols own proprietary thinners are just Shellsol T for a much higher price.

 

I don't know what it costs in Australia but in the UK you can get 2.5 litres for less than £20 delivered. That is equal to 25 tins of lighter fluid at Poundland.

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I downloaded the MSDS which gives the composition of Humbrol Thinners as Naptha, 70-90% & 2-Methoxy-1-methylethylacetate, 10-30%. Not sure what the latter is, but if that is available, a 80-20 mix of the two would surely be very close to Humbrol thinners & not as volatile as straight naptha? Yes? :unsure:

Steve.

Edited by stevehnz
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All this talk of using these dangerous solvents brings to mind the apochryphal tale of the fellow who used gasoline to thin enamels.  He was spraying merrily along until the moment the pilot light on his furnace caught wind of the mixture.  Too late, he realised he had actually built himself a home carburettor.

 

On the up side, he was easy to spot at the next club meeting, the deaf guy with no eyebrows.

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There is a salutory lesson there, and in the news today, about using common sense. Today in Pakistan more that 160 people were killed while trying to steal fuel leaking from a tanker at the side of the road. Apparently one of the people engaged in the looting decided to have a cigarette and one explosion later complete carnage. We all have a responsibility to know exactly what we are working with and the dangers involved.

 

Off the top of my head I can't be certain but I think that petroleum/gasoline used in cars is actually less flammable than lighter fuel and paint thinners. It would probably work but there are loads of additives in automotive fuel that might not be so good for your paint finish.

 

2-Methoxy - 1 -methylethylacetate(Propylene Glycol) is, itself, highly flammable and is another carrier solvent used in a lot of paints and varnishes it is not really neccessary to the process and probably serves more for the purpose that Humbrol could then say that theirs is a special mix formulated for the purpose

 

I have my own tale of someone not taking care of what they were doing - I worked in a factory making computers many moons ago and a 16 year old boy came in on his first day on the job. His supervisor handed him a bottle of Isopropyl alcohol, a cloth and a scraper and set him to work removing dropped hazard labels that had stuck to the floor along the production lines. Lad felt it would be clever to light the area he was working on to show off to another lad who had just started. Next minute the whole floor along that production line went up in flames. Instant unemployment on his first ever day of work because he didn't think about what he was doing properly. The line was running at the time and I must say it was rather funny seeing all the workers on that line jumping up and down though.

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One of the worst products that causes house fires is alcohol, bottled as a beverage. When I was a kid my father had a reputation for setting the house on fire after coming home drunk, putting the cooker on to cook something to soak up the booze and falling asleep. Many nights I recall my mother waking me and my brother and ushering us out of the house....... 'Come on kids time to go, your dad has set the house on fire again.'

 

I recall once, at RAF Leuchars, he set our quarters alight and the base fire crew responded. Boy were they miffed, they had spent the whole day cleaning their equipment for inspection first thing in the morning only to have to respond to a call to our house....again!

 

But he was always one of the chaps who liked a shandy or two and it was a laugh not a potentially life threating and very bad habit.

 

By contrast, despite having used all manner of flammable materials in and around the house I have never had a single fire (Touch wood of course, taking grave heed of Murphys Law).

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5 hours ago, Beardie said:

One of the worst products that causes house fires is alcohol, bottled as a beverage. When I was a kid my father had a reputation for setting the house on fire after coming home drunk, putting the cooker on to cook something to soak up the booze and falling asleep. Many nights I recall my mother waking me and my brother and ushering us out of the house....... 'Come on kids time to go, your dad has set the house on fire again.'

 

I recall once, at RAF Leuchars, he set our quarters alight and the base fire crew responded. Boy were they miffed, they had spent the whole day cleaning their equipment for inspection first thing in the morning only to have to respond to a call to our house....again!

 

But he was always one of the chaps who liked a shandy or two and it was a laugh not a potentially life threating and very bad habit.

 

By contrast, despite having used all manner of flammable materials in and around the house I have never had a single fire (Touch wood of course, taking grave heed of Murphys Law).

Alcohol has never been a fire risk here. Never lasts that long.

 

Strange though notice a distinct dizziness when consuming it. The authorities are a bit lax here and should do a little more testing. You never know it may be a health risk.

 

Laurie

 

Edited by LaurieS
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1 hour ago, Steve Noble said:

I've never felt the urge to experiment with 'home brew' thinners and always use the same thinners as the paint I'm using. You just don't know if the mixture will react later and ruin a nice paint job...

 

People are free to experiment a bit with thinners however when discussing how good or bad a paint brand is it would be nice if there was an international law compelling them to disclose what thinner they were using when the paint didn't perform as expected.

 

A customer has a right to complain if the combination of correct paint with correct thinner doesn't work. It's a bit rich complaining if a paint doesn't work with anything other than the recommended thinner though. It's like using the wrong type of fuel in your car and wondering why the engine doesn't run properly.

 

It's correct than proprietary enamel thinners feature naptha as the base. It's also correct however that turpentine and white spirits also share that claim. A quick nose test however will reveal to all that they all smell differently including lighter fluid and evidently they are not the same. Perhaps slightly glib but humans share 90% of their DNA with mice. It's the proportion additives that are the technology and intellectual property of the manufacturers.

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41 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

People are free to experiment a bit with thinners however when discussing how good or bad a paint brand is it would be nice if there was an international law compelling them to disclose what thinner they were using when the paint didn't perform as expected.

 

A customer has a right to complain if the combination of correct paint with correct thinner doesn't work. It's a bit rich complaining if a paint doesn't work with anything other than the recommended thinner though. It's like using the wrong type of fuel in your car and wondering why the engine doesn't run properly.

 

It's correct than proprietary enamel thinners feature naptha as the base. It's also correct however that turpentine and white spirits also share that claim. A quick nose test however will reveal to all that they all smell differently including lighter fluid and evidently they are not the same. Perhaps slightly glib but humans share 90% of their DNA with mice. It's the proportion additives that are the technology and intellectual property of the manufacturers.

 

Agree with that Jamie. Use the thinners which come with the product. They have designed it for theri product why would you wish to change and take chances.

 

On DNA. To make it clear. I have only shared that with my wife.  :yikes:

 

Laurie

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1 minute ago, LaurieS said:

 

Agree with that Jamie. Use the thinners which come with the product. They have designed it for theri product why would you wish to change and take chances.

 

On DNA. To make it clear. I have only shared that with my wife.  :yikes:

 

Laurie

 

:tmi: Hahaha

 

I wouldn't discourage experimentation with thinners, but I'd try it outside the actual tin unless you don't mind risking the longevity of that, and furthermore thoroughly test everything concocted at home on scrap plastic or a paint mule kit. Stew Dapple and I have a running joke about the stereotypical "and now my Spitfire is in the bin" statement used to punctuate many complaints about painting mishaps - often self inflicted ones caused by failing to follow the instructions to mix it first, thinning with something inappropriate etc and then committing straight to painting one's latest project and getting angry that it's all gone wrong at that late stage.

 

Of course if using the recommended thinner the consumer can reasonably expect it to work as advertised so long as they follow up their end of the bargain (and mixed it properly before use!). :) Painting models shouldn't be a hassle. Infact it's probably my favourite part of modelling - however it's vital that the paint is predictable and reliable in order to feel relaxed about painting and enjoy it. If there is always some unknown variable involved then yes it can be rather stressful - I've had that in the past and can well relate!

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Well, first off I find it a touch amusing that people are getting worried about 'lighter fluid' but perfectly fine with 'white spirit' which is just as flammable. One is meant to burn 'cleaner' with less soot and no residue for lighters, stoves, etc, while the other...well, try this; take some white spirit (mineral turpentine here) and put some on a flat, non porous object. Now, once it is dried, you will notice a sheen of residue still there. Not so the lighter fluid, which will vanish completely. The 'lighter fluid' is also less 'hot' when applied to surfaces such as plastic than white spirit, and is universally used as a cleaner too.

 

Many here say 'Use the proper thinner!'. Easy said. When that is not available in this country (various manufacturers), or the paint and thinner chemistry has changed (Humbrol) and the new thinner does not mix with the older paints...you then improvise. This is me improvising. While Tamiya enamel thinner works fine with Tamiya and Colourcoat enamels, it doesn't really do the trick with Humbrol enamels, apart from those immediately after Hornbys takeover. For the new Humbrols, their own thinner works ok. For anything older, of which I have a bucket load, the new thinner does NOT work, the Tamiya enamel thinner does NOT work, and mineral turps, while working, does present some problems. Therefore, as some other forumites have done, I will give the light fluid a go and see how it pans out. I have used flammable materials with my paints for years, and treat it very seriously.

Edited by sapperastro
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