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Julien

USN F/A-18E shoots down Su-22 over Syria

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No word on the Syrian crew. Is this the first USN air-to-air victory since 1991?

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Now the Russians are threatening to shoot down coalition aircraft in retaliation. I would say that would mostly be a bluff because of the course the Russian military is completely aware of the gap in capability between them and the US. It would be a bit one sided I think.

 

The Syrians will be reined back in by the Russians. If the coalition hadn't reacted as they did. They'd be pushing their luck again.

 

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This lunacy needs to stop.

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17 hours ago, noelh said:

 

The Syrians will be reined back in by the Russians. If the coalition hadn't reacted as they did. They'd be pushing their luck again.

 

 

 While I don't sympathise with the Syrian gvmt. side particularly, I have my doubts this is in line with international law, and that flying over one's own territory is "pushing luck" - except factually, of course...

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SyAF pilot reportedly ejected and was recovered by SAA special forces. 

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Yeah very messy. 

 

Coalition says plane was bombing anti-government rebels (who they support) so shot it down after warning the pilot on an emergency frequency. 

 

Syrians/Russians say the plane was bombing IS so its engagement by the hornet was uncalled for. 

 

Who should we believe? 

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1 hour ago, Tony Oliver said:

Yeah very messy. 

 

Coalition says plane was bombing anti-government rebels (who they support) so shot it down after warning the pilot on an emergency frequency. 

 

Syrians/Russians say the plane was bombing IS so its engagement by the hornet was uncalled for. 

 

Who should we believe? 

 

Sadly, both could be correct.  There aren't many (any?) hard divides between the various factions opposing the Syrian government.  Situations where "my enemy's enemy is my friend" inevitably result in complex Venn diagram-like overlaps between the various groups involved.  It's incredibly messy, which is precisely why conventional military forces have such a hard time dealing with the situation.  Oh for the days of Wellington when all military combatants wore bright-coloured uniforms and conveniently lined up in massed ranks so they could kill each other like gentlemen!

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Posted (edited)

Hello

Mhaselden, by the time of Waterloo this tactics had already becoming obsolete as French skirmishers demonstrated against Hanoverian lines of infantry during the battle of Hondschoote on 8th September 1793. Tony Oliver, you can gather as much information on current situation as possible, study history of previous wars and conflicts of all sides involved to help you with your dilemma. Or you can just pick a side and trust it implicitly.

Meanwhile, US fighters downed Syrian drone and Aussies suspended their air strikes in Syria. Cheers

Jure

Edited by Jure Miljevic
edited for spelling

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3 hours ago, Tony Oliver said:

Yeah very messy. 

 

Coalition says plane was bombing anti-government rebels (who they support) so shot it down after warning the pilot on an emergency frequency. 

 

Syrians/Russians say the plane was bombing IS so its engagement by the hornet was uncalled for. 

 

Who should we believe? 

Well on the basis that the Russians and Syrians lie every time they open their mouths. Plus the fact that it was the second time that day Syrians had attempted to attack the coalition supported rebels. I think I'd ride in with the coalition version of events.

 

On the other hand given the demonstrated inability of both the Russians and the Syrians to tell the difference between a hospital and a rebel position, it wouldn't surprise me if the pilot thought he was attacking IS. 

 

But then again you could say it was an attempt to test the resolve of the coalition by provoking a retaliation. 

 

But of course it could easily just be an almighty cluster..em.........SNAFU

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27 minutes ago, Jure Miljevic said:

Hello

Mhaselden, by the time of Waterloo this tactics had already becoming obsolete as French skirmishers demonstrated against Hanoverian lines of infantry during the battle of Hondschoote on 8th September 1793. Tony Oliver, you can gather as much information on current situation as possible, study history of previous wars and conflicts of all sides involved to help you with your dilemma. Or you can just pick a side and trust it implicitly.

Meanwhile, US fighters downed Syrian drone and Aussies suspended their air strikes in Syria. Cheers

Jure

 

Hi Jure,

 

Yeah...I know.  I was being somewhat facetious.  The complexity of modern low-intensity conflict just makes my head spin.


Cheers,
Mark

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Hello, Mark

I cracked a smile (admittedly slightly cynical) at your remark so I do not find it too inappropriate. And I am probably as nauseous as you are trying to make sense of what is going on in the world these days. Cheers

Jure

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The SU-22 seems to be the workhorse of Syrian ground-attack aircraft. Anyone know how many they have left?

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51 minutes ago, Slater said:

The SU-22 seems to be the workhorse of Syrian ground-attack aircraft. Anyone know how many they have left?

 

 

One less than a couple of days ago. ;)

They have Fencers as well, but they get shot down too....

 

As for international law - I think the US etc threw that out of the window when they decided to fly around someone elses airspace, blowing stuff up, completely uninvited. Im no lawyer, but...

 

Maybe some more movement of Russian SAMs will follow this? More sabre rattling and posturing. Pretty sure there will be hell on if a US/NATO jet gets downed, thats for sure.

 

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I suppose we'll see how well the EA-18G Growlers perform against SAM radars...

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On June 18, 2017 at 6:03 PM, Slater said:

Is this the first combat kill for the Super Hornet?

That is correct. Air-to-air of course. 

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Not going to get into the ins and outs of who, what when but I have just read this I thought you might find it of use..

 

"F/A-18E Super Hornet, BuNo. 168914, is the one that shot down the Su 22 over Syria recently.  It is assigned to the "War Party" of VFA-87 aboard USS GEORGE H. W. BUSH, CVN-77."

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Hello
 I really hope that the situation is not going to worsen .

I think that this conflict has already made enough deaths, wounded persons and refugiees in this region and victims of terrorism in other places like London Paris Bruxelles etc ...

Bachar El Assad does not deserve that innocents people die because he wants to remain in power in Syria ..

 

Patrice

 

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    I would like to add that I think that in the 21st century no political leader of any kind or anywhere in the world should have a program to make his country "great again" because the decisions taken to make his country "great again" Will inevitably sooner or latter have negative consequences on the lives of the inhabitants of neighboring countries .

 A country is great in its culture, its way of life and the beauty of its landscapes , not by the power of its armies or by the damage caused by the exploitation of its natural resources in its factories .

  Political leaders all over the world should be concerned to solve the real problems faced by the inhabitants of this fragile planet, such as famine, pollution, climate changes, etc., rather than focusing on staying in power .

 

Patrice

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1 hour ago, TEMPESTMK5 said:

Hello
 I really hope that the situation is not going to worsen .

I think that this conflict has already made enough deaths, wounded persons and refugiees in this region and victims of terrorism in other places like London Paris Bruxelles etc ...

Bachar El Assad does not deserve that innocents people die because he wants to remain in power in Syria ..

 

Patrice

 

 

Bashar El Assad certainly is  a dictator by western standards, but I don't think that he is the main cause of hell in Syria.

And with experience of Iraq and Libya I don't think that removing dictator necessary means better, democratic and secular state afterwards.

Assad supporters so far did not commit terrorist acts in London, Paris and Bruxelles, on the other hand most of Syrian moderate, democratic opposition send shivers down my spine.....

After all Osama bin laden was moderate, democratic freedom fighter once for some.

 

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1 hour ago, Zagor said:

 

After all Osama bin laden was moderate, democratic freedom fighter once for some.

 

 

Not too sure about that - but he was the enemy of my enemy... One thing's for sure, Syria is a highly interesting microcosm of very fluent and surprising lines of alliance.

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