Correct Finish, Matte or Satin?

[LuBu]

Evening all, currently looking at getting back into doing some modelling, picked up a new airfix spitfire in 1/72. Hopefully do a work in progress thread! 

 

One aspect im not so sure on is the correct finish for ww2 aircraft, they appear neither Matte nor satin, yet more matte with a slight shine to it. Would this be correct? Obviously it will spend on the plane itself but as a general rule of thumb? If so how would I achieve this effect? 

 

Regards

 

Tom

[Rabbit Leader]

Tom,

 

Firstly - welcome back to the hobby. This is a question often discussed, however it all depends on a number of things.

1. The time period that your kit belongs too

2. Do you wish to finish it as fairly new or well worn

3. In the end - what you like best. 

 

I will admit that I am no paint expert, however British WW2 paints did change somewhere between 1941-42 from a fairly Matt finish to one that was more smooth in texture and lustre (my quotes). If you are building a basic BoB Mk.1 then I would tend to go down the flatter side of the varnish spectrum, however (to my eye) model kits look better with a slight sheen to them.

 

I'm sure others here will offer their advice and opinions, however I've got both Flat Matt and Semi Gloss kits in my collection and I reckon the slighlty glossier ones look best. 

 

Cheers and good luck with your modellng return.. Dave

 

[Gwart]

I model in 1/72 and always go for matt as the final varnish layer and buff it if needed (little to lots)with a towling cloth.

[John Masters]

This is a good question LuBu and brings to mind the differences between reality and smaller scale work.  

 

I have found that even if the full-sized craft had a shiny varnish applied to it (doped linen, for example) at 1/72nd scale the model itself often looks too shiny if I treat it that way--by my hand.  I tend to use a satin covering at most.  This also evens out any finish discrepancies between paint and decals and also seals the decal well on the model-which means I can touch with my fingers once it is dry.  Regarding WW2 or more something more modern, I go with either satin or matte, unless it is aluminum or chrome and then I stick with whatever the paint seems to be.  

[LuBu]

7 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Tom,

 

Firstly - welcome back to the hobby. This is a question often discussed, however it all depends on a number of things.

1. The time period that your kit belongs too

2. Do you wish to finish it as fairly new or well worn

3. In the end - what you like best. 

 

I will admit that I am no paint expert, however British WW2 paints did change somewhere between 1941-42 from a fairly Matt finish to one that was more smooth in texture and lustre (my quotes). If you are building a basic BoB Mk.1 then I would tend to go down the flatter side of the varnish spectrum, however (to my eye) model kits look better with a slight sheen to them.

 

I'm sure others here will offer their advice and opinions, however I've got both Flat Matt and Semi Gloss kits in my collection and I reckon the slighlty glossier ones look best. 

 

Cheers and good luck with your modellng return.. Dave

 

 

Hi Dave, thanks for the kind words. Yes I am doing a basic BoB MKI. When I did build one a few years ago, I used gloss to seal the decals and weathering then just left it at that. Now I realise that whilst it may look nice when it's shiny, I would prefer it to look more real. Are there certain types of Matt varnish you use, it would have to be by brush for me though. 

 

5 hours ago, Gwart said:

I model in 1/72 and always go for matt as the final varnish layer and buff it if needed (little to lots)with a towling cloth.

 

Hello gwart, thanks for the tip! Matt does seem to be the way I'm headed. Can you buff it with any cloth? Or does it depend on the varnish itself? 

 

1 hour ago, John D.C. Masters said:

This is a good question LuBu and brings to mind the differences between reality and smaller scale work.  

 

I have found that even if the full-sized craft had a shiny varnish applied to it (doped linen, for example) at 1/72nd scale the model itself often looks too shiny if I treat it that way--by my hand.  I tend to use a satin covering at most.  This also evens out any finish discrepancies between paint and decals and also seals the decal well on the model-which means I can touch with my fingers once it is dry.  Regarding WW2 or more something more modern, I go with either satin or matte, unless it is aluminum or chrome and then I stick with whatever the paint seems to be.  

 

Hi John, thanks for the reply. Looks like the consensus is to go Matte on the final finish, I'll have to use a brush for it, any particular brand to suggest? 

 

Cheers

 

Tom

[John Masters]

soft brush

[Bullbasket]

Just to add to what has leady been said, years ago, when Airfix brought out their very nice Mk.1 Spitfire in 1/72nd (sometime late 70's, early 80's), I went to town on it an opened up every panel, added a scratch built Merlin and control rods and finished it as a BoB aircraft with a matt finish. In one competition, it got knocked back and a friend overheard one of the judges say that it should have had more of a shine to it. This was supposed to depict an aircraft at the height of the battle, needing to be refuelled, rearmed and got back into the air as quick as possible. I don't think that a wash, brush up and shine was high on the "Erks" priority list. So as far as an aircraft in the heat of the battle is concerned, I'd stick with a matt finish.

 

John.

[Rabbit Leader]

LuBu,

I'm currently using Pledge/Future Floor polish and adding small amounts of Tamiya's Flat Base X-21 to knock off the shine, however I use an airbrush. You can use a brush, but I'm not sure how 'brushable' it becomes once you add the matting agent to it. I'd probably avoid this.

 

Good news however!! - I read here that many modellers are using Winsor & Newton's Galleria range of varnishes. They come in Matt, Gloss and Satin and can be brushed on. Check out some art stores in your area or perhaps take a peak on eBay. I've not used this myself, however have only heard good things about it.

 

HTH.. Dave.

 

 

[LuBu]

38 minutes ago, John D.C. Masters said:

soft brush

 

John, I realise that much, I was wondering more about the brand of varnish? 

 

24 minutes ago, Bullbasket said:

Just to add to what has leady been said, years ago, when Airfix brought out their very nice Mk.1 Spitfire in 1/72nd (sometime late 70's, early 80's), I went to town on it an opened up every panel, added a scratch built Merlin and control rods and finished it as a BoB aircraft with a matt finish. In one competition, it got knocked back and a friend overheard one of the judges say that it should have had more of a shine to it. This was supposed to depict an aircraft at the height of the battle, needing to be refuelled, rearmed and got back into the air as quick as possible. I don't think that a wash, brush up and shine was high on the "Erks" priority list. So as far as an aircraft in the heat of the battle is concerned, I'd stick with a matt finish.

 

John.

 

Thanks for the help John, I'll go Matte then as that seems to be the common theme here. 

 

Tom 

[LuBu]

4 minutes ago, Rabbit Leader said:

LuBu,

I'm currently using Pledge/Future Floor polish and adding small amounts of Tamiya's Flat Base X-21 to knock off the shine, however I use an airbrush. You can use a brush, but I'm not sure how 'brushable' it becomes once you add the matting agent to it. I'd probably avoid this.

 

Good news however!! - I read here that many modellers are using Winsor & Newton's Galleria range of varnishes. They come in Matt, Gloss and Satin and can be brushed on. Check out some art stores in your area or perhaps take a peak on eBay. I've not used this myself, however have only heard good things about it.

 

HTH.. Dave.

 

 

 

Hi Dave thanks again, I have heard good things about the winsor and newton stuff, I will look to pick some up when I can get to hobby craft! 

 

Cheers

 

Tom

[noelh]

I've always felt that on a model a totally matt finish, particularly on an aircraft can detract from look of it. It's almost a grainy effect. I had a look at a military helicopter and saw that up close the paint was very matt. Yet when you stepped back the deep matt effect lessened and you could even see a slight shine. 

With models at the distances we view them. An ultra matt finish might be too much. Having said that many matt varnishes aren't quite so flat so the scale effect works well. 

The opposite is true as well high gloss needs to be toned down on models. 

Everything in moderation, as they say.

[occa]

Well put noelh.

 

If one looks closer on most photos one can make out slight reflections on certain surface areas.

[Giorgio N]

Vallejo satin varnish, it's actually a matt paint with a slight shine,  IMHO very realistic for most finishes. Can be easily applied by brush 

[John Masters]

That's what i use.  very nice stuff.

[iainpeden]

10 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

LuBu,

I'm currently using Pledge/Future Floor polish and adding small amounts of Tamiya's Flat Base X-21 to knock off the shine, however I use an airbrush. You can use a brush, but I'm not sure how 'brushable' it becomes once you add the matting agent to it. I'd probably avoid this.

 

Good news however!! - I read here that many modellers are using Winsor & Newton's Galleria range of varnishes. They come in Matt, Gloss and Satin and can be brushed on. Check out some art stores in your area or perhaps take a peak on eBay. I've not used this myself, however have only heard good things about it.

 

HTH.. Dave.

 

 

I also use the Klear/Tamiya matt varnish technique but use acrylx thinner to make it brushable

[Tbolt]

8 hours ago, noelh said:

I've always felt that on a model a totally matt finish, particularly on an aircraft can detract from look of it. It's almost a grainy effect. I had a look at a military helicopter and saw that up close the paint was very matt. Yet when you stepped back the deep matt effect lessened and you could even see a slight shine. 

With models at the distances we view them. An ultra matt finish might be too much. Having said that many matt varnishes aren't quite so flat so the scale effect works well. 

The opposite is true as well high gloss needs to be toned down on models. 

Everything in moderation, as they say.

 

I agree that a Matt finish looks good on a lot of models, but not a dead matt one. You talk about a grainy effect, I've noticed that on models with stain finishes - with makes it look unrealistic to me.

[Phil32]

I brush paint but 'cheat' with varnish - I buy the humbrol squirty cans. Gloss, decal, gloss again, matt. The balance looks good to my personal eye.

[woody37]

I use Alclad flat coat, it applies very thinly so you can leave a slight sheen by not applying it too heavily. You can even apply it by panel to leave a variation in sheen across the surface which can also be evident on WWII aircraft

[fightersweep]

I remember reading that Pete Brothers of 32 Squadron used to help his Erks file down the rivet heads on his Hurricane as well as wax the aircraft to try and gain a bit of extra speed. I think he said he gained an extra 5 to 10 mph, which I imagine could be crucial sometimes. This was during the Battle of Britain. I've read of other pilots that would wax shine their aircraft to gain extra speed, so I guess it's also down to the individual airframe. 

 

At the end of the day, go with whatever looks good to your eye. It's your hobby and your model.....and welcome back to the fold!

 

Best regards;
Steve

[matti64]

I'd suggest, as ever, trying to  study as much photographic reference material as you can  of the specific aircraft you are modelling if you can, or other aircraft  contemporaneous with it and trying to match that effect at  the typical distances you'll be viewing the model at.

 

[Marvel Onkey]

If you head over to the 'Paint' part of Britmodeller http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/forum/16-paint/

 

There are two current threads, one relating to gloss varnish and one to matte which will give you a good introduction to the topic of 'which varnish'.

 

Sorry, I can't figure out how to link the threads directly into this post...

 

 

Alternatively, google 'Britmodeller Klear' but I'd make a cuppa and open the biscuits before you start down that road...