Welcome to Britmodeller.com

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, receive reputation points as a reward for submitting content, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more! This message will be removed once you have signed in.

This site uses cookies! Learn More

This site uses cookies!

You can find a list of those cookies here: mysite.com/cookies

By continuing to use this site, you agree to allow us to store cookies on your computer. :)

  • Announcements

    • Mike

      PhotoBucket are no longer permitting 3rd party hosting   01/07/17

      As most of you are now painfully aware, Photobucket (PB) are stopping/have stopped allowing their members to link their accumulated years of photos into forums and the like, which they call 3rd party linking.  You can give them a non-refundable $399 a year to allow links, but I doubt that many will be rushing to take them up on that offer.  If you've previously paid them for the Pro account, it looks like you've got until your renewal to find another place to host your files, but you too will be subject to this ban unless you fork over a lot of cash.   PB seem to be making a concerted move to another type of customer, having been the butt of much displeasure over the years of a constantly worsening user interface, sloth and advertising pop-ups, with the result that they clearly don't give a hoot about the free members anymore.  If you don't have web space included in your internet package, you need to start looking for another photo host, but choose carefully, as some may follow suit and ditch their "free" members at some point.  The lesson there is keep local backups on your hard drive of everything you upload, so you can walk away if the same thing happens.   There's a thread on the subject here, so please use that to curse them, look for solutions or generall grouse about their mental capacity.   Not a nice situation for the forum users that hosted all their photos there, and there will now be a host of useless threads that relied heavily on photos from PB, but as there's not much we can do other than petition for a more equitable solution, I suggest we make the best of what we have and move on.  One thing is for certain.  It won't win them any friends, but they may not care at this point.    Mike.
Reini78

Persian Thunder...1/48 F-86F "Shamshir" Imperial Iranian Airforce

47 posts in this topic

Nice! You'll need those finless 200-gal drop tanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Muddy green and brown splodges all over this beautiful thing?!?!

Nooooo.......!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Incidentally I note the decal sheet reference to the 'Asia Minor' IIAF camouflage scheme and I'm not sure it's strictly correct. Asia Minor would be (maybe someone can confirm): FS20400 & FS30140 (sand and dark tan) with FS34079 green, over FS35622 gray.

 

My doubt is borne from the knowledge that the IIAF F-86F camouflage was applied during overhaul by IAI in Israel and I have a strong suspicion that the similar Heyl Ha'Avir desert scheme of FS33531 & FS30219 (sand and dark tan) with FS34227 green, again over FS35622, was applied by IAI.

 

I dare say that it will now be impossible to verify for sure, and I don't know if there's much difference between these colours anyway,  but I think it worth mentioning. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

Nice! You'll need those finless 200-gal drop tanks.

 

waiting for a Hasegawa F-86F-40 kit hopefully to arrive which includes the 200gal tanks

 

14 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

Incidentally I note the decal sheet reference to the 'Asia Minor' IIAF camouflage scheme and I'm not sure it's strictly correct. Asia Minor would be (maybe someone can confirm): FS20400 & FS30140 (sand and dark tan) with FS34079 green, over FS35622 gray.

 

My doubt is borne from the knowledge that the IIAF F-86F camouflage was applied during overhaul by IAI in Israel and I have a strong suspicion that the similar Heyl Ha'Avir desert scheme of FS33531 & FS30219 (sand and dark tan) with FS34227 green, again over FS35622, was applied by IAI.

 

I dare say that it will now be impossible to verify for sure, and I don't know if there's much difference between these colours anyway,  but I think it worth mentioning. 

 

yes the IIAF and IAF camo colours are very similar, the Iranian ones have darker green and brown tones

looking at the Sabres Ethiopia received from Iran it looks like the darker IIAF colours

Eth_zpspj3zqbka.png

Eth1_zpstzfdjism.png

 

there are also some preserved Sabres displayed in Iran which also show the darker Iranian green and brown tones

DSC_0001_zpsddqikkel.jpg

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I provided a few items for Iranian Aviation Review but not sure if we covered colours. I'll have to check. Bear in mind that the IAI F-84G and F-86F overhaul most likely generated the camouflage scheme, rather than it being in use by the IIAF before this. From memory the first F-5s were delivered in NMF/silver, so it's also likely that their camouflage was applied by IAI too.

 

As with a number of Sabre topics, assumption can often lead to the wrong conclusion and my view of IIAF/IEAF F-86F colours is that they look closer to the Heyl Ha'Avir tones than to 'Asia Minor'. But again, maybe there's not much tonal difference anyway.

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll be watching this as I've a 1/72 one to do at some stage. :popcorn:

Sabrejet will keep us on the 'straight and narrow'. ;)

 

Stuart

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow! Fantastic camouflage!

I have the same kit... I'll take pen and paper... :popcorn:

good work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Well, regarding IIAF ( and later IEAF) F-86F camo, it was definitively Asia Minor, using Federal Standard colors. Around 1965 all Iranian combat aircraft received this standard scheme - in this case the main Iranian fighters: F-5A/B as well as F-86Fs now used in the fighter-bomber role.

I can confirm it, as we had access to the ex-Ethiopian AF F-86Fs that have been recovered in Asmara in relatively good condition, still painted in the former Iranian camo, dismantled, transported to NZ for restoration - then rebuild ( unfortunately as USAF Korean War birds) and now sold to Russia. This gave us the possibility to recreate the Etiopian markings  with 100% accuracy.

We also had the North American official Asia Minor camo scheme for F-86Fs ( that we also send to Leon of IAR) was, compared with existing photos, also permitted to recreate the "Iranian" pattern pretty exactly.

The IAI work on Iranian Sabres was done accurately following Iranian instructions and the Asia Minor colors applied were of high quality, as they weathered only slightly after years of use under the hot  tropical sun.  Anyway, IIAF aircraft before the revolution were always mantained in pristine conditions.

 

Even in the 1960s, to apply "Israeli" colors on Iranian aircraft hasn't been considered as a "wise step" for obvious reasons and, even if offical, the work at IAI has been done without any publicity.  

 

Re: museum Sabres: Of course, as it happens often, museum aircraft were repainted with colors that are only "roughly similar" to the original ones...unfortunately.

 

Another note regarding IIAF Sabres: During 1963 the fleet was upgraded with AIM-9 rails, thus becoming the first Iranian missile armed interceptors. The Congo veterans were also updated after they returned home ( then of course flying without the UN markings). As later the new F-5s took over  this role, the Sidewinder rails were removed and the Sabres switched to the fighter-bomber role ( receiving their camouflage).

 

Re: F-84G - these never got any camo in IIAF service and F-5A/B got their camo in Iran.

 

I hope that this will help a bit!

greetings

Diego

Hi-Decal

Edited by Diego
4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice one Diego: great answer. Warren at Avspecs (who restored the IEAF F-86Fs) sent me a lot of photos of those aircraft, including the camo - which looks very much like Asia Minor (esp the dark green), but I wasn't necessarily linking the IEAF camo and the IIAF camo, even though they came from the same place - and indeed a few of Warren's F-86Fs even displayed overpainted IIAF serial numbers etc.

 

Looking at a freshly-painted IAI IIAF F-86F, it looked more like Heyl Ha'Avir colours had been applied in Israel and later in IIAF service overpainted with Asia Minor.

 

However since my IAI image is in monochrome I think it's most likely a tonal illusion of the black and white photo.

 

:yes: 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for your kind comments :)

Unfortunately I haven't seen any IAI Sabre shots, but it would be very interesting to compare them with the IIAF birds "in service"...

re ETAF, there were several Sabre batches delivered to Ethiopia: the NMF ones ( that also served in Congo) - delivered from the US and the camouflaged ones, all of these being 2nd hand, ex IIAF examples delivered in the late 1960s and early 1970s, when the IIAF started to replace them with F-5s.

Speaking about Iranian F-86s, there were of course also ex Luftwaffe Sabres Mk6, brought by Iran, when the IIAF was already flying F-5s. These were never intended for the IIAF but were destined since the beginning as military assistance for Pakistan. However, few of them received roughly painted iranian roundels for deception pourposes on their Luftwaffe camo, but without any serials.

 

Greetings

Diego 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Diego,

 

See below. Photo courtesy Zeev Tavor and taken at IAI Bedek.

 

22_zps4prdomli

 

Edited by Sabrejet
4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Ooh! Simply gorgeous!!!!!

 

Many thanks for posting this shot :)

 

From the first look, I would say it's a freshly applied Asia Minor scheme, that follows the prescribed manufacturer's (North American) pattern.

- On b/w shots of a/c wearing the IDF/AF 3 color desert scheme, the Israeli "pale stone" looks quasi like white with practically no contrast with the pale blue underside, but  here we can see a pale grey underside and a darker sand color.

- Also the green looks like a normal "US Dark Green" and not like the Israeli "Pale green" color. 

Another note for the modeller: The inner faces of the undercarriage doors are still in aluminium color.

Once again a really big thank you for sharing this phantastic picture!

 

Greetings

Diego

Edited by Diego
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Managed to get a hard to find original Hasegawa F-40 kit, gonna use this one because it includes the 200gal drop tanks which the IIAF birds had.

DSC_0001_zpszz1p3dx1.jpg

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 17 June 2017 at 5:33 PM, Sabrejet said:

My doubt is borne from the knowledge that the IIAF F-86F camouflage was applied during overhaul by IAI in Israel and I have a strong suspicion that the similar Heyl Ha'Avir desert scheme of FS33531 & FS30219 (sand and dark tan) with FS34227 green, again over FS35622, was applied by IAI.

 

Dont get confused. It was the ex-WGAF Sabres that were overhauled by Israel and these almost exclusively went on to operate with the Pakistan AF. The F-86Fs had the standard US Asia colours. Their is a good recent article on this in a recent SAFO issue.

 

Martin

Edited by RidgeRunner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

40 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said:

 

Dont get confused. It was the ex-WGAF Sabres that were overhauled by Israel and these almost exclusively went on to operate with the Pakistan AF. The F-86Fs had the standard US Asia colours. Their is a good recent article on this in a recent SAFO issue.

 

Martin

 

Not confused at all: hence the photo. IAI overhauled IIAF F-86Fs from November 1966, and to quote from IAI test pilot, "The only F-86s to go through IAI were the Iranian [F-86Fs]". Numbers agree too.

 

The Luftwaffe Sabre 6s went direct Oldenburg - Piacenza - Gioia del Colle - Eskisehir (Turkey) - Diyarbakir (Turkey) - Tabriz (Iran) in March 1966. They stayed in Iran for a while but then went straight to Pakistan with no Israeli involvement. Pakistan already had a dedicated F-86F maintenance setup, so no need to send them anywhere else. Also these machines did not, "almost exclusively" operate with the Pakistan AF: they ALL went to the PAF.

Edited by Sabrejet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Thanks for that. I bow to your better knowledge of the subject. I couldn't see your photo as it was blocked by PB :(

 

Everyone - a great thread, by the way. I, too, have a Sabre waiting for the Ethiopian treatment so it is all very useful.

 

Martin

Edited by RidgeRunner
Addition
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Martin,

 

my mistake: I forgot to check the pic. It's fixed now.

 

Bloody PB!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for firstly posting the photo & then for fixing it. I'm keen to do an Ethiopian Sabre in that scheme with Diego's decals, not so many options for a camo nut to do the Asia Minor schemes.

Steve

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

project now officially started, stay tuned ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

a start is done

DSC_0001_zpssjyznjcv.jpg

 

gonna use a Quickboost (Aires) seat

DSC_0002_zpssa1bfnzv.jpg

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 20/06/2017 at 02:25, Sabrejet said:

Diego,

 

See below. Photo courtesy Zeev Tavor and taken at IAI Bedek.

 

 

 

 

Do you know a 1/48 source for this kind of front wheel?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a later wheel and often seen on Canadair Sabre 6s and late F-86Fs. Aftermarket I would guess but nothing springs to mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Searched the internet, nothing popped up yet.

The Academy kit includes the early and late spoked wheel, the Hasegawa kits only the late spoked wheel.

As far as I´ve seen on pics the IIAF birds had both, the late spoked and this one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The headrest of the Hasegawa seat comes closer to the original than the Quickboost one, so my dad cut off the rear part of the resin seat und glued on the rear wall of the Hasegawa seat with the headrest.

DSC_0002_zpskaerzbzo.jpg

DSC_0003_zpscf2hflsl.jpg

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now