Zero paint over Tamiya

[Scratchbuilder]

Hi all,

I am involved in building a kit (yes, really!) of a Bugatti "Tank" type 57 for a friend. I ordered light racing blue and dark blue and the damned shop sent me metallic blue. I have some Zero dark blue which is about the right shade, but can it be put on over well dried and hardened Tamiya?  I know Tamiya is a form of cellulose (whatever they may claim) and Zero paints are, according to their maker, "cellulose, but different".  Has anyone done this job of Zero over Tamiya?  I can't get any Tamiya blue NON metallic because I had a huge bust up with the silly old woman in the shop where I order it and won't go there again and I ain't paying carriage prices!

 

Thanks,

Martin

[Greenshirt]

I've not used Zero paints, and you don't mention if you will be airbrushing or using a hairy stick. 

 

Well dried and cured Tamiya acrylic should be ok. Apply in thin coats and let them dry/cure fully if you want a conservative approach. If using a hairy stick, don't draw the brush in the same place twice+ during each setting; if using an airbrush don't spray to achieve a wet appearance. Before painting I'd rub the Tamiya with some sort of polishing rag first to knock down any glossiness and ensure the new paint will have something to adhere to. 

 

 

[Scratchbuilder]

Thanks, Greenshirt.  I always spray. I usually use a spotting gun, a small gravity spray gun. I have airbrushes and will be using the Paasche Model H to put the Zero on.  I used the airbrush to avoid too much overspray on a large model narrowboat that had three colours of Zero and masked very well.  The model had one coat of self-etch primer from the spotting gun, which is my cure-all default finish.  Currently the light blue element is with a Tamiya rattle can and if that's acrylic, I'm a double Dutchman. It reeks of pear drops, pure cellulose. It covers so well that it has dried glossy. Perhaps because it's around 28-30 degrees here today.  It dried almost immediately.  I've now put it away to harden for a week and have sprayed a piece of spare styrene which I will do the same to, trying the Zero over it after a few days to harden in the heat of the shed.  This kit has engraved lines to separate the colours, which I hope will help the masking process.

 

Cheers,

Martin

[Greenshirt]

The Tamiya rattle cans are cellulose/lacquer based paints. Typically their jars are solvent based acrylics, the solvent being a mix of IPA and other chemicals. Since the paints you're using are similar, there shouldn't be an issue...but I wouldn't apply the top color thickly. 

[Scratchbuilder]

I think I would dust it on anyway, greenshirt, but the Zero paints are definitely cellulose. The maker told me that on the phone.  Tamiya jars that I've used were such utter garbage that I threw them all away (I'd been left them by a friend).  Against my better judgement I tried a Tamiya rattle can that had been given tome and was astonished that it went on beautifully and stunk of pear drops, hence cellulose.  Your American use of the term "lacquer" is still a mystery to me, but I think to you it means what we call cellulose. What we call lacquer is clear stuff.  From milky coloured Vallejo to good old spar varnish.

I shall be attempting the mask and 2 tone spray job on Friday as far as I know and will report back on whether it was successful.

 

Cheers,

Martin

[Steve Noble]

Tamiya TS rattle cans are synthetic lacquer, the X series in the small glass jars are acrylics, alcohol based as already mentioned. Zero is auto acrylic, but much stronger than any so called water based type acrylic. The misleading part with Zero is the acrylic in the name, because people see that and think mild, water based type product. But the smell is the clue that there are very strong solvents in them.  Of the three, Zero is by far the strongest paint and can and will attack plastic and other paints. 

I have used some Zero paints over Tamiya TS before, for example the window rubber black over a car body colour. I had no adverse reactions to this. I don't think I would risk Zero over Tamiya glass jar X series as I think it would lift them or wrinkle them. But over fully dried TS you may be good if you go easy with light coats. Do a test maybe before you commit..

[Scratchbuilder]

Steve, thanks for the reply. As my posts say...I am letting it harden off for a week before testing on a scrap piece of plastic.  I've sprayed the end of it with Tamiya rattle can (I've no idea what TS refers to). It's the dumpy little can whose contents stink like cellulose, but not quite so strongly.  I'll be dusting some Zero dark blue over it once masked.  I'm building the Type 57 "Tank" Bugatti for an old friend.  He's going through every Bugatti as his father sold them in a London showroom before the War.  The Tank Bug was 2 tone blue.  This is a Le Mans Miniatures kit in 1/24th scale.  Perfect surface and detail and I reckon the grey resin is the product of our friends at Czech Model Resins.  Since the seriously superb photo-etch is done by Eduard whose name is all over the fret, I reckon the whole thing is from Czech Republic.  LMM would have to very convincingly prove otherwise to me!

 

Cheers,

Martin

[Steve Noble]

The TS are those dumpy spray cans from Tamiya. TS-8 is Italian Red for example.

[Scratchbuilder]

Ah, right. Oddly that's the very one that I was given to try and found excellent. I then ordered the two blues for this job and a BRG for my Lotus Elite build, but they sent me a dark blue that was finely metallic.  No good at all and I ain't buying yet another, when I have a wee bottle of the dark plain blue Zero.

 

Martin

[Greenshirt]

TS = Tamiya Spray. I believe these are their original car and motorcycle colors, all are glossy. AS = Aircraft Spray and are flat/satin camouflage colors. PS = Polucarbonate Spray for...polycarbonate RC car bodies. 

[Scratchbuilder]

Ah, right. Now I know.  Thanks, greenshirt.

 

Martin

[Scratchbuilder]

Right, well, after spraying self-etch (my default primer for all things) on a Lotus 33 slot car master I cleared up and got the airbrush compressor out with the wee Paasche Model H, loaded it with Zero dark blue and put first a dust coat, then a wet one on the test piece.  Left it in the sun while I once again cleaned up and then peeled the tape off. I use either Nichiban or 3M black chart tape I stole from the piles of either when I was a clay modeller for the car industry.  In fact the black 3M chart tape came from the pile next to the Bugatti Veyron prototype, so it's rather apt it'll be used on a model of another ugly Bugatti!.  It peeled back against itself beautifully, leaving a nice sharp edge and no reaction at all twixt Tamiya light blue rattle can and airbrushed Zero dark blue. In fact they both look ideal for the Bugatti "Tank" I already have the light blue on and will be doing next.

 

Just thought I should report back regardless of results and it #s good to report positively.

 

Cheers,

Martin