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Blackburn Roc Floatplane Target Tug


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13 minutes ago, Seahawk said:

 

Beautifully, thanks.  Poor W/Op/TAG: when not cooped up in the turret, he spends his time in a small confined hole next to a fuel tank.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't self-sealing either. what could possibly go wrong?

 

Martian

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Martin, did Rocs normally fly with a TAG or an Observer?  

 

The Roc's need seems to have been for expertise in Telegraphy and Air Gunnery, which sums up a TAG pretty neatly.  However, since Naval planners of the 1930s appeared to come out in a rash at the mere idea of flying an aircraft without an Observer to accompany the trained monkey in the front, I have a horrible suspicion that they sent a Commissioned Looker up instead.  Of course, towing targets was more appropriate for a DW ("damned rating", pronounced with suitably louche aristocratic Rs), so your version might even have had... [gasp!]... a crew with no officers in it.

 

[This is a genuine question; my Uncle was a Petty Officer Pilot before he was commissioned (including winning the DFM), and anyway my RN service taught me the utmost respect for ratings.  This is emphatically NOT an Officer's p*ss-take out of the lower orders].

 

 

1 hour ago, Seahawk said:

 

Poor W/Op/TAG: when not cooped up in the turret, he spends his time in a small confined hole next to a fuel tank.

 

No stick: no vote.

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27 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Martin, did Rocs normally fly with a TAG or an Observer?  

 

The Roc's need seems to have been for expertise in Telegraphy and Air Gunnery, which sums up a TAG pretty neatly.  However, since Naval planners of the 1930s appeared to come out in a rash at the mere idea of flying an aircraft without an Observer to accompany the trained monkey in the front, I have a horrible suspicion that they sent a Commissioned Looker up instead.  Of course, towing targets was more appropriate for a DW ("damned rating", pronounced with suitably louche aristocratic Rs), so your version might even have had... [gasp!]... a crew with no officers in it.

 

[This is a genuine question; my Uncle was a Petty Officer Pilot before he was commissioned (including winning the DFM), and anyway my RN service taught me the utmost respect for ratings.  This is emphatically NOT an Officer's p*ss-take out of the lower orders].

 

 

 

No stick: no vote.

Like the Skua, I would imagine that the make up of the crew would depend on the requirements of the mission, a sortie over a longer distance would most likely involve more complicated navigation, therefore an observer. Sadly aircrew accounts of Roc operations are extremely rare so this has to remain a logical supposition.

 

No stick no vote? You can say that to someone armed with the concentrated power of four Browning and responsible for your rear end if you like, personally I would give it a miss.

 

Martian

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5 minutes ago, longshanks said:

If you can manage this level of modelling by touch ..........

 

What's it going to be like when you can see??

 

Hope you're feeling better soon

 

Kev

Thanks Kev. I must confess I am looking forward to seeing how the new glasses help things along. Not looking forward to paying for them though!

 

Impecunious of Mars

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Very nice work on the internals Martian - looking good there Sir!

I hope the new goggles help... I think I'm going to revert to trying on pairs in Boots and doing my own "better like this, or like this" and saving the money.

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1 hour ago, CedB said:

Very nice work on the internals Martian - looking good there Sir!

I hope the new goggles help... I think I'm going to revert to trying on pairs in Boots and doing my own "better like this, or like this" and saving the money.

I started that way but bespoke ones can be of much greater magnification and being adjusted to one's personal sight prescription, give far better clarity of vision. The replacements I have on order were only £105, dirt cheap for glasses these days.

 

Martian of the soon to be 20/20 vision again

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I agree, I did the same 2 years ago, headache after modelling, some mistakes that passed through and so on...

I was on the medexam from my work and they asked me about my glasses, I got it for 7 or 8 years or so...

I changed it and Allelujah !!! Then I saw the flaws on my kits and restart it:huh:

Thank for the explanation about fuel tanks.

I shall conform cap'tain !!

No models today IRL has been rough !! Sorry

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

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10 minutes ago, corsaircorp said:

I agree, I did the same 2 years ago, headache after modelling, some mistakes that passed through and so on...

I was on the medexam from my work and they asked me about my glasses, I got it for 7 or 8 years or so...

I changed it and Allelujah !!! Then I saw the flaws on my kits and restart it:huh:

Thank for the explanation about fuel tanks.

I shall conform cap'tain !!

No models today IRL has been rough !! Sorry

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

Sorry to hear real life has been a pain. That's why I try and spend as many waking hours as possible away with the fairies and when I'm asleep? That's spent away with the fairies as well! Simples!

 

Martian

 

PS: The bits in between are spent on Britmodeller sorted!

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The internal details really are very good indeed - a real tribute to your modelling(!) skills.

 

I have had to wear glasses for most of my life (long sighted in one eye, short in the other), so that reading or any kind of close work causes headaches without them. I would strongly advise anyone who needs glasses to get a proper prescription and suffer the pain in the hip pocket nerve if you really value your sight, especially as you get older. Eye strain can cause accelerated deterioration over time: is it really worth it for a few pounds? (And yes I do know about the pain in the HPN from many years of experience - I just value something which, once lost, cannot be replaced).

 

P

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9 minutes ago, pheonix said:

The internal details really are very good indeed - a real tribute to your modelling(!) skills.

 

I have had to wear glasses for most of my life (long sighted in one eye, short in the other), so that reading or any kind of close work causes headaches without them. I would strongly advise anyone who needs glasses to get a proper prescription and suffer the pain in the hip pocket nerve if you really value your sight, especially as you get older. Eye strain can cause accelerated deterioration over time: is it really worth it for a few pounds? (And yes I do know about the pain in the HPN from many years of experience - I just value something which, once lost, cannot be replaced).

 

P

A very good point, added to which, my optician says that doing this sort of work with the correct glasses can actually strengthen the eye muscles used for focusing.

 

Martian

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15 hours ago, Martian Hale said:

A very good point, added to which, my optician says that doing this sort of work with the correct glasses can actually strengthen the eye muscles used for focusing.

 

Even more so when you're working in 1:72 scale, or so I always tell myself. Gee, I wonder how good my eyes would get if I tried super-detailing and rigging a 1:144 scale Tiger Moth...

 

By the way, your Roc rocks! Excellent work in the pit - I think the stringers add a lot of interest. 

 

Cheers,

Bill

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2 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

 

Even more so when you're working in 1:72 scale, or so I always tell myself. Gee, I wonder how good my eyes would get if I tried super-detailing and rigging a 1:144 scale Tiger Moth...

 

By the way, your Roc rocks! Excellent work in the pit - I think the stringers add a lot of interest. 

 

Cheers,

Bill

Thanks Bill, from here on it should be a paradise for those with a thing about white plastic card.

 

One benefit about the glasses is that, if one can make things look good under magnification, they will look great to the naked eye. A rare example of a Martian cunning plan that did not fail!

 

Cunning Plans of Mars

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Hello Dear ETI,

Did you have some pics of a Roc with her wing folded ?

I think about another lunacy to add to my already distorted mind.

I pray for myself since I'm cutting the transparency :suicide:

Have a very nice day, hope that your new glasses will come soon.

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

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3 hours ago, corsaircorp said:

Hello Dear ETI,

Did you have some pics of a Roc with her wing folded ?

I think about another lunacy to add to my already distorted mind.

I pray for myself since I'm cutting the transparency :suicide:

Have a very nice day, hope that your new glasses will come soon.

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

I have somewhere but not sure where at the moment. However, the Skua and Roc shared the same wing fold mechanism so you are sorted as far as that goes. From the pictures though,  I feel that a Roc with folded wings is not appropriate  for your diorama; see what it would do to the radius of fire to the turret!

 

4d199c46175621d27d183bf69193c532.jpg

 

 

SkuaWingsFold.jpg?i=1

 

Martian

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On 27/06/2017 at 6:23 PM, Martian Hale said:

Like the Skua, I would imagine that the make up of the crew would depend on the requirements of the mission, a sortie over a longer distance would most likely involve more complicated navigation, therefore an observer. Sadly aircrew accounts of Roc operations are extremely rare so this has to remain a logical supposition.

 

No stick no vote? You can say that to someone armed with the concentrated power of four Browning and responsible for your rear end if you like, personally I would give it a miss.

 

Martian

Hello Martian,

 

Sorry late to the party again.  Would you mind if I sat to the side here so I can keep an eye on your build and @corsaircorp Static Roc build at the same time.  Ive got a beer mat so I don't leave rings on the table, and my own chillier peanuts.

 

I am in the procurement stages of my own 1/48 Skua build (not bought it for the stash yet), which is planned for after my current Sea Gladiator and Seafire II build so I'm interested in the progress (also know as what to blatantly plagiarise)...

 

in terms of crewing the Skua, I have just had a very quick look at Peter Smiths - Skua, the Royal Navies Dive Bomber, and I see that for operations in Norway there were three aircraft to a flight, the lead aircraft would be crewed by two officers so I assume Pilot and Observer/Navigator and the remaining two as an Officer Pilot and Naval Airman as I assume a TAG.

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Hello Grey,

You're welcome too, don't you worry about the beer mat, my last record at the Saleen pub was 6 pints of Guiness in about 30'

My friends just told that I can't get out without emptyin my beers... Never take a bet with me:lalala:

I really like your point of interest, did you have a RFI for the Fulmar, I will also make the one of Stan Orr.

At the Sallen pub, there was pics of an ancient USN Hydrobase, that was fun to see.

I was at the Lough Derg when Kermit Weeks take off with the last flying Sunderland, bound for Miami... Moving sight it was, for sure.

Have a nice modelling day.

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

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7 hours ago, Martian Hale said:

I have somewhere but not sure where at the moment. However, the Skua and Roc shared the same wing fold mechanism so you are sorted as far as that goes. From the pictures though,  I feel that a Roc with folded wings is not appropriate  for your diorama; see what it would do to the radius of fire to the turret!

 

4d199c46175621d27d183bf69193c532.jpg

 

 

SkuaWingsFold.jpg?i=1

 

Martian

Thank you , Dear Martian, no wing fold on my Roc, should I consider buying another Roc:hmmm:

I already have 2 Fulmars after all....

Take care and happy modelling.

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

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5 minutes ago, corsaircorp said:

Hello Grey,

You're welcome too, don't you worry about the beer mat, my last record at the Saleen pub was 6 pints of Guiness in about 30'

My friends just told that I can't get out without emptyin my beers... Never take a bet with me:lalala:

I really like your point of interest, did you have a RFI for the Fulmar, I will also make the one of Stan Orr.

At the Sallen pub, there was pics of an ancient USN Hydrobase, that was fun to see.

I was at the Lough Derg when Kermit Weeks take off with the last flying Sunderland, bound for Miami... Moving sight it was, for sure.

Have a nice modelling day.

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

 

Six Guinness in 30 mins - hmm!- 5 mins a pint - It should take longer than that to settle in the glass..  You would need to order them in advance and allow them to settle.  There is an art to drinking the black stuff in that the rings in the glass should end up an even distance apart.  I bet you didnt feel the Mea West the next morning...  TBH I would normally drink lager as its a bit lighter..

 

Indeed I did do an RFI - 806 NAS Fairey Fulmar with Spaghetti - unfortunately our friends at Photobucket are not playing ball allowing me to show the photos at the moment and I don't really want to hi-jack this fine thread but sticking up pictures but I could send the odd photo through a PM if you want me too.  Have a look at the RFI because it links to a discussion on Spaghetti on Fulmars...  And gimme a shout if you want me to send a couple of photos..

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4 hours ago, Grey Beema said:

Hello Martian,

 

Sorry late to the party again.  Would you mind if I sat to the side here so I can keep an eye on your build and @corsaircorp Static Roc build at the same time.  Ive got a beer mat so I don't leave rings on the table, and my own chillier peanuts.

 

I am in the procurement stages of my own 1/48 Skua build (not bought it for the stash yet), which is planned for after my current Sea Gladiator and Seafire II build so I'm interested in the progress (also know as what to blatantly plagiarise)...

 

in terms of crewing the Skua, I have just had a very quick look at Peter Smiths - Skua, the Royal Navies Dive Bomber, and I see that for operations in Norway there were three aircraft to a flight, the lead aircraft would be crewed by two officers so I assume Pilot and Observer/Navigator and the remaining two as an Officer Pilot and Naval Airman as I assume a TAG.

Beer mat or not, you are most welcome to join in the fun.

3 hours ago, corsaircorp said:

Thank you , Dear Martian, no wing fold on my Roc, should I consider buying another Roc:hmmm:

I already have 2 Fulmars after all....

Take care and happy modelling.

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

Yes!

3 hours ago, corsaircorp said:

Hello Grey,

You're welcome too, don't you worry about the beer mat, my last record at the Saleen pub was 6 pints of Guiness in about 30'

My friends just told that I can't get out without emptyin my beers... Never take a bet with me:lalala:

I really like your point of interest, did you have a RFI for the Fulmar, I will also make the one of Stan Orr.

At the Sallen pub, there was pics of an ancient USN Hydrobase, that was fun to see.

I was at the Lough Derg when Kermit Weeks take off with the last flying Sunderland, bound for Miami... Moving sight it was, for sure.

Have a nice modelling day.

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

Six pints? I don't like Guinness but you may have met you nemesis here. My friends often refer to me as the Beer Monster. :pardon:

2 hours ago, Grey Beema said:

 

Six Guinness in 30 mins - hmm!- 5 mins a pint - It should take longer than that to settle in the glass..  You would need to order them in advance and allow them to settle.  There is an art to drinking the black stuff in that the rings in the glass should end up an even distance apart.  I bet you didnt feel the Mea West the next morning...  TBH I would normally drink lager as its a bit lighter..

 

Indeed I did do an RFI - 806 NAS Fairey Fulmar with Spaghetti - unfortunately our friends at Photobucket are not playing ball allowing me to show the photos at the moment and I don't really want to hi-jack this fine thread but sticking up pictures but I could send the odd photo through a PM if you want me too.  Have a look at the RFI because it links to a discussion on Spaghetti on Fulmars...  And gimme a shout if you want me to send a couple of photos..

Please do post the pictures here so we can all enjoy them. At times, well most of the time, this thread has strayed so far off topic that they would not look at all out of place!

 

Back at the bench, the news is that the structure of the port fuselage is finished and I hope to have the starboard side finished today. Incidentally, does anyone have details of the set mounting for the pilot's seat and the positioning of the winch operator's seat? I have a gut feeling that the latter was located off the centre line to allow for it to be swung out of the way when the operator needed to change the target drouges.

 

Martian (aka The Beer Monster)

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49 minutes ago, Martian Hale said:

Beer mat or not, you are most welcome to join in the fun.

Yes!

Six pints? I don't like Guinness but you may have met you nemesis here. My friends often refer to me as the Beer Monster. :pardon:

Please do post the pictures here so we can all enjoy them. At times, well most of the time, this thread has strayed so far off topic that they would not look at all out of place!

 

Back at the bench, the news is that the structure of the port fuselage is finished and I hope to have the starboard side finished today. Incidentally, does anyone have details of the set mounting for the pilot's seat and the positioning of the winch operator's seat? I have a gut feeling that the latter was located off the centre line to allow for it to be swung out of the way when the operator needed to change the target drouges.

 

Martian (aka The Beer Monster)

Ohohohhhh ! Beer monster, wait for the SMW, I'll bring some weapons with me :clap2:

Ok, I will look for another Roc, note that, I no longer drink like before, It is now 17 years that I did'nt get drunk.

An Irish friend of mine has labelled Belgium as "the Killing field" 1 blue Chimay, he said "Oh strong stuff ! did you have a blond ?"

So I gave him a triple Westmaele and he was done... add to this 2 Duvel (treacherous one) and my friend was stoned.

At the pub, he could drink lot of Guinesses but here it has been another story:huh:

Thank again for the pics.

And thank for allowing Grey to show his Fulmar ! That's kind !

How many stomach did a martian get ?? Is'n't it your secret ??

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

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3 hours ago, Grey Beema said:

 

Six Guinness in 30 mins - hmm!- 5 mins a pint - It should take longer than that to settle in the glass..  You would need to order them in advance and allow them to settle.  There is an art to drinking the black stuff in that the rings in the glass should end up an even distance apart.  I bet you didnt feel the Mea West the next morning...  TBH I would normally drink lager as its a bit lighter..

 

Indeed I did do an RFI - 806 NAS Fairey Fulmar with Spaghetti - unfortunately our friends at Photobucket are not playing ball allowing me to show the photos at the moment and I don't really want to hi-jack this fine thread but sticking up pictures but I could send the odd photo through a PM if you want me too.  Have a look at the RFI because it links to a discussion on Spaghetti on Fulmars...  And gimme a shout if you want me to send a couple of photos..

Hello Grey,

That was not a gentle pub's evening, I just had to leave my friends there and go back home.

I told them that I had to leave at 0930 PM and make my way to Rosslare.

They ordered me some pints and told me that if I leave without drinkin' it, It should be considered as an insult.

So as I use to be a polite man, and I did'nt wanted to offend that great bunch of gentlemen....

But they stayed in awe when I make such an achievement and luckily, did'nt see any gardees on the road.

And as I told it, I was out at 0930, no insults done, but I stopped a lot of time on my way to Rosslare...

Otherwise, I do prefer drink my Guiness more slowly,

Can't wait to see your Fulmar, I will do the one of Stan Orr and the other will be a Nightfighter.

Thank you.

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

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Hello Martian,

The only photos I have are general views of the complete Aircraft.

I can't help for that one, Sorry

Sincerely.

corsaircorp

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7 minutes ago, corsaircorp said:

 

Can't wait to see your Fulmar, I will do the one of Stan Orr and the other will be a Nightfighter.

Thank you.

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

 

OK - Well you asked for it.....:lalala:.  I will say that this is my favorite of what I have built todate, it is right up there with my BOB Aeroplanes flown by FAA Aces...  BTW this is the SH 1/48 version..

 

Fairey Fulmar MkI N1884/6K 806NAS - HMS Illustrious - In the period November 1940 - Feb 1941 what did it look like?  From various books and documents I suspect the the aeroplane was marked thus:-

  • S1E Scheme with Sky Grey undersides.
  • The demarcation between the upper colours and the underside colours would be high demarcation through to the rudder post with the scheme extending under the tail planes.
  • I think it should be wearing IFF markings. Underside of left wing should be Black and underside of right should be White.
  • The aeroplane would have the Sand and Spaghetti markings on a band just aft of the spinner and a wrap around on the leading edge.
  • Single letter K forward of the roundel
  • No "Royal Navy" title.
  • I don't think the underside of the fuselage was Sky S.

Finished Build...

 

35438670762_079613716e_z.jpg

 

34765604974_229cd000e3_z.jpg

 

35438679162_65eb278594_z.jpg

 

Couple of the internal shots whilst in build..

 

27607520354_ceeb819e0b_z.jpg

 

28189298666_9cac827268_z.jpg

 

Hope you like it.  If you have any questions or comments please say.  We don't get better unless someone points out the errors...

 

 

 

 

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