HomerJ_757 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 7 hours ago, BlackAck said: Hey now, don't go insulting his pet roc.. it's not such a bad little aeroplane, it's just it's looks are an acquired taste like strong cheese. Some Earthlings find fugly dogs attractive, pugs for instance to me are the Roc of the dog world and yet others find them attractive! Each to their own and especially our very own visitor from the Red Planet! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 A Blackburn Pug? The mind boggles at something that would have had a huge radial engine and squat little body with tiny undercarriage... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 9 hours ago, BlackAck said: Hey now, don't go insulting his pet roc.. it's not such a bad little aeroplane, it's just it's looks are an acquired taste like strong cheese. In all seriousness, if exterior photographs are common, how about interior ones? Use Suka/Shark photos as a starting point and extrapolate for the target towing gear? I presume the process of target towing is described somewhere by a wavy navy boffin. The target towing arrangements are quite well covered in the Air Publication so not too much hassle on that point. 1 hour ago, HomerJ_757 said: Some Earthlings find fugly dogs attractive, pugs for instance to me are the Roc of the dog world and yet others find them attractive! Each to their own and especially our very own visitor from the Red Planet! I don't know about fugly dogs but fugly aeroplanes are definitely attractive to this alien. 1 hour ago, TheBaron said: A Blackburn Pug? The mind boggles at something that would have had a huge radial engine and squat little body with tiny undercarriage... If the Roc had had a huge radial engine, it might have made a decent fighter. It was massively underpowered. Martian 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudioN Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 2 hours ago, TheBaron said: The mind boggles at something that would have had a huge radial engine and squat little body with tiny undercarriage... Indeed... http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Caproni-Stipa/320209?qsp=eJwtjEEKwkAMRa8iWbsRwUV3egFdeIGQ%2BdTB2glJQIfSuxuLu8f7n7eQtDnwiXtX0EAONnnQnpSNX07DQk/0d7OSTMJqba47j6qcJ28Wl55D4cBZBBoof3%2B1AvtNcNl6Y/YPCbDbxnQ8pS/VdeKtgeA60bp%2BAePZMcg%3D Not radial-engined, actually. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 10 minutes ago, ClaudioN said: Indeed... http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Caproni-Stipa/320209?qsp=eJwtjEEKwkAMRa8iWbsRwUV3egFdeIGQ%2BdTB2glJQIfSuxuLu8f7n7eQtDnwiXtX0EAONnnQnpSNX07DQk/0d7OSTMJqba47j6qcJ28Wl55D4cBZBBoof3%2B1AvtNcNl6Y/YPCbDbxnQ8pS/VdeKtgeA60bp%2BAePZMcg%3D Not radial-engined, actually. That's like something out of a Studio Ghibli film Claudio. Far too cute to be considered a pug! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 40 minutes ago, ClaudioN said: Indeed... http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Caproni-Stipa/320209?qsp=eJwtjEEKwkAMRa8iWbsRwUV3egFdeIGQ%2BdTB2glJQIfSuxuLu8f7n7eQtDnwiXtX0EAONnnQnpSNX07DQk/0d7OSTMJqba47j6qcJ28Wl55D4cBZBBoof3%2B1AvtNcNl6Y/YPCbDbxnQ8pS/VdeKtgeA60bp%2BAePZMcg%3D Not radial-engined, actually. No but it is a possible build for the future. It would certainly fit in well with my portfolio of models! Martian of the Weird and Wonderful 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackAck Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Martian Hale said: If the Roc had had a huge radial engine, it might have made a decent fighter. It was massively underpowered. But, the same engine did adequately power the Westland Lysander, and the Perseus engine was the forerunner for the fantastic Bristol Centaurus. A misuse of resources? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 The Perseus was capable of 905 BHP maximum which had to power a fighter of 8670lb, this including the weight of a powered four gun turret. The Centaurus could provide 2520 BHP. The Lysander was never meant to be a fighter, army cooperation at the time relying on the ability to fly slowly at times. The Roc was so under powered that, even in a dive, it struggled to catch it's intended prey and even then, once the turret was rotated speed fell back, allowing the quarry to pull ahead again. Despite all that it was still a pretty cool looking aircraft. It is difficult to blame Blackburns for this, they just designed what was asked of them. Rather one should look to the muppets who came up with the specification in the first place. Martian 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Martian Hale said: The Perseus was capable of 905 BHP maximum which had to power a fighter of 8670lb, this including the weight of a powered four gun turret. The Centaurus could provide 2520 BHP. The Lysander was never meant to be a fighter, army cooperation at the time relying on the ability to fly slowly at times. The Roc was so under powered that, even in a dive, it struggled to catch it's intended prey and even then, once the turret was rotated speed fell back, allowing the quarry to pull ahead again. Despite all that it was still a pretty cool looking aircraft. It is difficult to blame Blackburns for this, they just designed what was asked of them. Rather one should look to the muppets who came up with the specification in the first place. Martian Speaking as a Yank, Sir, Royal Navy air doctrine has never seemed to make much sense. Antiaircraft was viewed as the chief defense, and fighters were envisioned as mostly operating against reconnaissance types shadowing a fleet? Odd bit about the Lysander. When the first of the type were sent out to India, they were plumped a bit as potential fighters, against the 'Afghan Air Menace', namely a collection of ex-RAF Hawker Hinds, which outperformed most anything the RAF had on hand in India at the time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 3 hours ago, Old Man said: Speaking as a Yank, Sir, Royal Navy air doctrine has never seemed to make much sense. Antiaircraft was viewed as the chief defense, and fighters were envisioned as mostly operating against reconnaissance types shadowing a fleet? You seem to have got that one pretty much spot on. Its still a cracking looking aeroplane though! Martian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 8 hours ago, Martian Hale said: I don't know about fugly dogs but fugly aeroplanes are definitely attractive to this alien. I have a vacform Blackburn B***kburn that you can have...... Ian 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 PM sent Martian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 47 minutes ago, Martian Hale said: You seem to have got that one pretty much spot on. Its still a cracking looking aeroplane though! Martian I'm a long-time fan of the beast, Sir. Long ago I wanted to swap a turret into a Frog Skua, but getting a Defiant over here was a serious project, and a Halifax kit too expensive just for the one piece. I have a Special Hobby Roc in the cupboard, and I did a Pavla Roc a while back.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 I did the Pavla Roc a few years back. I did it as a floatplane fighter. The conversion work was OK but I remember the engine and cowling were a nightmare to do. The fact that the Pavla cowling was oval in cross section probably had a lot to do with it. You saved yourself a whole lot of aggravation by not converting the Frog Skua. Aside from the conversion work, you would have found yourself increasing the wing chord by 1/4" and scratch building new tail planes. I sorted out a Frog Skua back in 1986 and am still not quite over the trauma. In fact, it may go a long way to explaining why I am the gibbering loony I am today! Martian von Wibble 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 15 minutes ago, Martian Hale said: You saved yourself a whole lot of aggravation by not converting the Frog Skua. Aside from the conversion work, you would have found yourself increasing the wing chord by 1/4" and scratch building new tail planes. I sorted out a Frog Skua back in 1986 and am still not quite over the trauma. In fact, it may go a long way to explaining why I am the gibbering loony I am today! Martian von Wibble That was more than half a century back. I doubt I would have noticed much but the added turret when I was starting high school.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsaircorp Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Hello Dears, My daughter have a pug, so I let to you to appreciate... Or this... I will have this one at 1/48.... This... Some certain similarities in the nose albeit it is not flattened... I want this one too, although an earthling, I like this one... but my favourite is this one I'll look for an article from the fana de l'aviation about the Roc... After some trip in that magnificent science of aerodynamics... I will pray St Airfix and St SH for a 1/48 Blackburn Blackburn, Dart and an Avro Bison, amen... Sincerely. Corsaircorp 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 I like them all but I think it is a tie between the Blackburn and the Bison as to which is the best looking. Martian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Flaming Heck CC, after that gallery of fugliness, the ROC looks positively elegant. Steve 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsaircorp Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 9 hours ago, limeypilot said: I have a vacform Blackburn B***kburn that you can have...... Ian Hello Ian, Did it really exist ? Wich brand and scale please ? Sincerely. Corsaircorp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted June 15, 2017 Author Share Posted June 15, 2017 5 hours ago, stevehnz said: Flaming Heck CC, after that gallery of fugliness, the ROC looks positively elegant. Steve I did say it was elegant! 1 hour ago, corsaircorp said: Hello Ian, Did it really exist ? Wich brand and scale please ? Sincerely. Corsaircorp Indeed the Blackburn did exist. A vacform kit was produced in 1/72 by Contrail. Martian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackAck Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 The Blackburn has to be one of the unsightly aircraft I have ever seen. It looks like they cut and shut the front end of a Westland Wessex to the rear end of a Bristol Fighter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 1 hour ago, BlackAck said: The Blackburn has to be one of the unsightly aircraft I have ever seen. It looks like they cut and shut the front end of a Westland Wessex to the rear end of a Bristol Fighter. I believe the Blackburn may have been conceived as an early form of psychological warfare, gaining the pilot an invaluable edge of few seconds over the bally foe as they goggled in disbelief. It looks if it was designed to physically head-butt any opponent. Nonetheless I like it and would welcome a decent 1/72 injection-moulded offering. 16 hours ago, corsaircorp said: My daughter have a pug, so I let to you to appreciate... That is a noble and handsome little beast Cc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 'Tis a little-known fact that every Blackburn Blackburn came with additional flying kit for the crew. Each pilot and gunner was issued with a paper bag to avoid recognition when flying the thing (the navigator was ok 'cos he was hidden in the bowels of the beast and not visible to idle passers-by). 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted June 15, 2017 Author Share Posted June 15, 2017 5 hours ago, BlackAck said: The Blackburn has to be one of the unsightly aircraft I have ever seen. It looks like they cut and shut the front end of a Westland Wessex to the rear end of a Bristol Fighter. And what's wrong with that? 3 hours ago, TheBaron said: I believe the Blackburn may have been conceived as an early form of psychological warfare, gaining the pilot an invaluable edge of few seconds over the bally foe as they goggled in disbelief. It looks if it was designed to physically head-butt any opponent. Nonetheless I like it and would welcome a decent 1/72 injection-moulded offering. That is a noble and handsome little beast Cc. Perhaps we could lean on Valom? hey seem to like oddball interwar subjects. 1 hour ago, mhaselden said: 'Tis a little-known fact that every Blackburn Blackburn came with additional flying kit for the crew. Each pilot and gunner was issued with a paper bag to avoid recognition when flying the thing (the navigator was ok 'cos he was hidden in the bowels of the beast and not visible to idle passers-by). A bit like this you mean? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted June 15, 2017 Author Share Posted June 15, 2017 Way too hot here to model today, I will see what I can get done overnight. Martian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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