Blackburn Roc Floatplane Target Tug

[TheBaron]

5 hours ago, Martian Hale said:

Just for the ignorant amongst us; what exactly is Stockholm Syndrome? If I suffer from it then I would like to know what it is.

It's where a psychological bond forms between a person who has been abducted or held hostage, and their captor. 

 

Such as one that can occur between a terrestrial subject and a Martian. (I think she's called Gill?)

 

Rocholm Syndrome is a variation in which one develops such an alliance  with the Blackburn Aircraft Company.

 

Baron von 'quite likely suffering from it too despite appearances'

 

[Pete in Lincs]

Nothing to do with meatballs then?

[Martian]

3 hours ago, TheBaron said:

It's where a psychological bond forms between a person who has been abducted or held hostage, and their captor. 

 

Such as one that can occur between a terrestrial subject and a Martian. (I think she's called Gill?)

 

Rocholm Syndrome is a variation in which one develops such an alliance  with the Blackburn Aircraft Company.

 

Baron von 'quite likely suffering from it too despite appearances'

 

Clearly I am suffering from it then. But do I want to be cured?

 

I shall pass on your kind comments to Mrs Martian from a suitably safe distance. Off to do that promised post now.

 

Martian

[Martian]

Its Saturday morning and whilst still bemoaning the fact that Tizwas is no longer on the box (bring back Sally James says I), I thought I would try and divert myself  by putting up the promised post showing the current state of play with this beauty.

 

I have added another internal bulkhead and performed the necessary surgery on the rear fuselage decking . I have yet to see a Roc with the decking in the up position so quite a bit of cutting, filing and cursing was required before this began to look the part. This was all a bit on the brutal side which is why I needed to make sure that the glue on the fairing part was well cured before launching my assault on it. I will need to add some strips of ten 'thou plastic to the inner edges of the opening for the decking to allow for the plastic lost when it was cut away.

 

Next up I cut the turret ring from the turret as the target winch was fitted to the said ring and added the base for the winch. Here we have another heads up regarding this kit. The base of the turret is too wide for the model as moulded and forces the fuselage apart a bit, thus reviving the issues regarding the fit of the canopy that we were discussing earlier in this thread. Accordingly, it was "out Dremel" time again and more plastic was very carefully removed from the fuselage, test fitting until a satisfactory fit was obtained. The foregoing is important  as it is going to be an issue with this kit even if the original fighter configuration is chosen.

 

Thanks for looking

 

Martian

 

PS:Just found this...

 

Ah, yes, the pictures!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brandy]

Looks as though it's all fitting rather well now, so obviously worth the effort!

 

 aahh yes, Sally James....I'm sitting here at work at 8.30 having just found out there is no-one booked on the first flights today, so they've been cancelled. Next one is at 1pm. Sally James would definitely have helped relieve the boredom....

 

Ian

Edited June 10, 2017 by limeypilot

[TheBaron]

Neat work Martian. I envy the crispness in your scratchbuildery.

 

Tiswas /Sally James. <sigh>

 

 

[Martian]

5 hours ago, limeypilot said:

Looks as though it's all fitting rather well now, so obviously worth the effort!

 

 aahh yes, Sally James....I'm sitting here at work at 8.30 having just found out there is no-one booked on the first flights today, so they've been cancelled. Next one is at 1pm. Sally James would definitely have helped relieve the boredom....

 

Ian

Thanks Ian, its one of those projects where there is very little margin for error when fettling bit to fit. I will be more than relieved when this bit of the project is sorted.

5 hours ago, TheBaron said:

Neat work Martian. I envy the crispness in your scratchbuildery.

 

Tiswas /Sally James. <sigh>

 

 

Thanks Baroness, I find that keeping things neat at every stage helps when it comes time to bring everything together at the end of the build.

 

Martian

[TheBaron]

I thought these might add a nice period touch? 

 

From Flight magazine during WW2.

 

 

[Martian]

Highly useful Baroness, especially the first picture.

 

Mrs Martian is considering her response to your earlier post She is having a little difficulty in view of BM's ban on swearing but, from the look on her face when I told her about it, I think it might involve the physically impossible!

 

Martian

[TheBaron]

Please proffer my tenderest apologia to your beloved spouse for any ire occasioned Martian. 

 

I can be a rough and ungodly creature at times, squatting here amidst balsa shavings, pawing lumps of plastic like a modelling version of Gollum....

 

If she wants to send Sally James over to punish me, it would serve me right....

[CedB]

Very neat work Martian, as usual

Sally, Tiswas... the days when I watched Saturday morning TV before the kids highjacked the remote 

I'm a bean, I'm a bean, what sort of bean am I? Who said "has"! Come on, own up, it's your own time you're wasting...

[Martian]

Thanks Ced.

 

I see that the Baron has forgotten that I am ahead of him in the naughty boy list awaiting "punishment" from the ever scrummy Miss James.

 

Martian

[Pete in Lincs]

17 hours ago, Martian Hale said:

Ah, now I can see where the R2D2 unit fits.

Sorry? we're not in the Sci fi WIP thread??

 

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://sally-james.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/service_14_1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://sally-james.com/biography&h=525&w=400&tbnid=Ts5fDFo7ltDcKM:&tbnh=186&tbnw=141&usg=__0EO5gnOrSuc1FBSKCCGqx0p4l_s=&vet=1&docid=uygy-4651svQoM&itg=1&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwiQsfTdgbXUAhVMK8AKHcWgAK8Q_B0IeDAK

 

Still looking good

[SleeperService]

Very nice build so far Martian and great attention to detail.

 

TheBaron's second picture is interesting. The wheel well doors (cover?) is clearly a different colour to the rest of the wing underside. As a trainer I would expect yellow undersides which would look black in period b/w photos?

 

[Martian]

3 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

Ah, now I can see where the R2D2 unit fits.

Sorry? we're not in the Sci fi WIP thread??

 

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://sally-james.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/service_14_1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://sally-james.com/biography&h=525&w=400&tbnid=Ts5fDFo7ltDcKM:&tbnh=186&tbnw=141&usg=__0EO5gnOrSuc1FBSKCCGqx0p4l_s=&vet=1&docid=uygy-4651svQoM&itg=1&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwiQsfTdgbXUAhVMK8AKHcWgAK8Q_B0IeDAK

 

Still looking good

Thanks Pete. I got so distracted by the links you put up that I almost forgot to reply to this!

2 hours ago, SleeperService said:

Very nice build so far Martian and great attention to detail.

 

TheBaron's second picture is interesting. The wheel well doors (cover?) is clearly a different colour to the rest of the wing underside. As a trainer I would expect yellow undersides which would look black in period b/w photos?

 

Thanks Nick. the Baron's second picture depicts one of the two fighter prototype floatplanes. These black port and white starboard undersides to their wings. The wheel wells were plated over and I suspect were just in primer. Having studied every photograph of Roc target tugs that I can get my hands on, I have only found one aircraft that did not have it's undersides in the standard yellow and black stripes. Not having a picture of one of the Bermuda Rocs which gives a good view of the undersides, the plan as it stands is to go with the standard target tug scheme. This is of course, subject to change in the light of any extra information that might appear along the way. However, we all know that if such information does appear it will be after the model is completed!

 

Martian

[ClaudioN]

2 hours ago, SleeperService said:

The wheel well doors (cover?) is clearly a different colour to the rest of the wing underside. As a trainer I would expect yellow undersides which would look black in period b/w photos?

 

Sorry, this has been answered while I was typing.

 

No. Believe it or not, the Roc was a Fleet Fighter. The aircraft is in standard S.1E scheme (Extra Dark Sea Grey, Dark Slate Grey, Sky Grey), to which 1940-style fighter recognition black/white undersides are added. The whole wing underside and the corresponding part of the fuselage underside are painted black to port, white to starboard. Looking at the picture, the dividing line between the two colours is seen to be the fuselage centreline.

The cover over the wheel wells might be unfinished metal, or some light colour.

 

Love the idea of modelling a Bermuda-based TT floatplane. Let's hope some info on those machines comes to surface.

 

Claudio

 

P.S.: ever thought, any of you, that the floatplane Roc was actually Blackburn's concept for an ekranoplan? Far ahead of its time, in this regard.

Edited June 11, 2017 by ClaudioN

[Martian]

5 minutes ago, ClaudioN said:

 

Sorry, this has been answered while I was typing.

 

No. Believe it or not, the Roc was a Fleet Fighter. The aircraft is in standard S.1E scheme (Extra Dark Sea Grey, Dark Slate Grey, Sky Grey), to which 1940-style fighter recognition black/white undersides are added. The whole wing underside and the corresponding part of the fuselage underside are painted black to port, white to starboard. Looking at the picture, the dividing line between the two colours is seen to be the fuselage centreline.

The cover over the wheel wells might be unfinished metal, or some light colour.

 

Love the idea of modelling a Bermuda-based TT floatplane. Let's hope some info on those machines comes to surface.

 

Claudio

 

P.S.: ever thought, any of you, that the floatplane Roc was actually Blackburn's concept for an ekranoplan? Far ahead of its time, in this regard.

Thanks Claudio, your answer was spot on. I must admit that part of my motivation for this thread, apart from the obvious wanting a model that is a bit different, is the hope that it will flush out a bit more information about these little known aircraft.

 

Martian

[ClaudioN]

3 hours ago, Martian Hale said:

I must admit that part of my motivation for this thread, apart from the obvious wanting a model that is a bit different, is the hope that it will flush out a bit more information about these little known aircraft.

 

Martian

 

I've just found this:

http://www.royalgazette.com/article/20140315/ISLAND/140319837&template=mobileart

 

Claudio

 

[Martian]

Thanks Claudio, duly saved to my Roc file.

 

Martian

 

 

[BlackAck]

It's looking great build so far, but I have to say Blackburn Aircraft didn't really have the best luck with their designs: the Skua, the Roc, and especially the Botha, they didn't really.. well... work.

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

On 11/06/2017 at 9:53 AM, Martian Hale said:

The Baron's second picture depicts one of the two fighter prototype floatplanes. These black port and white starboard undersides to their wings. The wheel wells were plated over and I suspect were just in primer.

 

Fighter prototype, yes - but a good reference for the detailed wing fold that we are certain you will be incorporating into this masterpiece...

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

15 hours ago, BlackAck said:

It's looking great build so far, but I have to say Blackburn Aircraft didn't really have the best luck with their designs: the Skua, the Roc, and especially the Botha, they didn't really.. well... work.

 

In Blackburn's defence - certainly on the Skua / Roc front, since I know little about the Botha - they built what they were asked to build; it isn't their fault that the specs were so fundamentally flawed.  Until very shortly before the war, the prevailing "wisdom" (ahem) was that fleet fighters were very unlikely to come up against high performance land aircraft of any sort, let alone Bf109s etc.  They were supposed to operate at low level, close in to the fleet, to chase away shadowing aircraft etc. - which also explains designs such as the Fulmar (which acquitted itself well in the scenario for which it was designed, but was badly outclassed by a modern "proper" fighter).  This was partly the fact that the RAF was so intent on bringing itself up to date that the Navy's aircraft sat a long way down their list of priorities, and partly that the RN was dominated by battleship / gunnery thinking - the planners and and strategists of the 30s were the gunnery officers of the Jutland era who had little understanding of the fundamental change that air power represented.  [There were exceptions, obviously, but in general the senior Navy didn't "get" air power in the interwar period; after all, most of the men who had served with such distinction in the RNAS, and who could have gone on to senior Naval appointments and countered this gunnery obsession, had transferred to the RAF on All Fools' Day 1918]

 

Had it not been for US designs, the Navy would not have received a capable fighter designed for deck operations from the outset until the Firefly Mk.1 - and a single seater until the Sea Fury.  The Sea Hurricane had much going for it, but no wing fold, which was a huge flaw in terms of hangar space - and the Seafire, though obviously a great fighter, was a pig to operate from a deck, especially in any sort of light winds [qv Salerno etc.].  Without Marlet / Hellcat / Corsair, a truly capable fleet fighter would have taken a very long time to reach the poor FAA front line crews.

 

The whole turret fighter concept (see also Defiant, so the RAF were not immune to the charms of the flawed theory) seems bonkers in hindsight, but they must all have thought it had some merit.

 

It should also be pointed out that the Skua was a very good dive bomber - arguably superior to the Ju87, which had consiserable success [provided adequate fighter cover].

Edited June 12, 2017 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[Martian]

12 hours ago, BlackAck said:

It's looking great build so far, but I have to say Blackburn Aircraft didn't really have the best luck with their designs: the Skua, the Roc, and especially the Botha, they didn't really.. well... work.

Thanks Blackack. The Skua was fine as a dive bomber but asking it to double up as a fighter was asking a bit much.

24 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

 

Fighter prototype, yes - but a good reference for the detailed wing fold that we are certain you will be incorporating into this masterpiece...

Wicked child! As if this build wasn't proving difficult enough as it is. Sorry no wing fold as I always feel that this method of folding the wings detracts from the character of the aircraft. Doubtless Perdu will be along in due course to throw my efforts to get him to fold the wings of his Buccaneer back in my face!

 

Martian

[woody37]

This aircraft certainly looks better with floats than wheels, lovely work so far. Despite its ugly appearance, I'm quite fond of it as a modelling subject so watching contently

[Martian]

44 minutes ago, woody37 said:

This aircraft certainly looks better with floats than wheels, lovely work so far. Despite its ugly appearance, I'm quite fond of it as a modelling subject so watching contently

Cheers Woody, I might even star enjoying it when I have got all the basic modifications sorted out. This is one conversion I would not recommend trying with this kit unless you really, really want a target towing Roc in this scale! Sadly I have a fatal attraction for weird and wonderful subjects like this. Quiet the usual suspects!

 

Martian