Airborne SF Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Hello all, I'm building the Trumpy 1/32 Swordfish Mk I, and I have a couple of questions mainly regarding British torpedos. 1. On most photos, the steering vanes are absent on the torpedos being carried by Swordfish. They are present on some, but on others, you can see the fixed portion of the tail appendage, the twin screws, and nothing behind them. Was it common practice on aerial torpedos to remove the steering gear as they were only intended to go in a straight line? Did the crew have anyway to set a course for the torpedo as a warship or submarine could, or did they just trust it to run straight? 2. Color schemes for torpedos. Is there any kind of standard scheme for warhead colors on torpedos in the Royal Navy. I assume the body is polished and oiled steel, but what color were the warheads? 3. In the center cockpit of the Swordfish, there is a long lever on the right side that according to the instructions leans to the front. Try as I can, I can find no info on this lever on the internet. Just for info, does anyone know what it's for? Thanks in advance for your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 6 hours ago, Airborne SF said: Hello all, I'm building the Trumpy 1/32 Swordfish Mk I, and I have a couple of questions mainly regarding British torpedos. 1. On most photos, the steering vanes are absent on the torpedos being carried by Swordfish. They are present on some, but on others, you can see the fixed portion of the tail appendage, the twin screws, and nothing behind them. Was it common practice on aerial torpedos to remove the steering gear as they were only intended to go in a straight line? Did the crew have anyway to set a course for the torpedo as a warship or submarine could, or did they just trust it to run straight? 2. Color schemes for torpedos. Is there any kind of standard scheme for warhead colors on torpedos in the Royal Navy. I assume the body is polished and oiled steel, but what color were the warheads? 3. In the center cockpit of the Swordfish, there is a long lever on the right side that according to the instructions leans to the front. Try as I can, I can find no info on this lever on the internet. Just for info, does anyone know what it's for? Thanks in advance for your time. I can only assume you are talking about the air tail that stabilised the torpedo flight when dropped,it enabled the torpedo to be dropped at a higher speed and altitude.It broke off on impact with the water. It was IIRC a Japanese invention copied by all the allies. You can see pictures of torpedoes with or without this device. It had nothing to do with steering the torpedo. Selwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Hello, Airborne SF I believe those torpedos without rudders on photos are dummy ones. Such torpedos were of correct weight but were there only to provide trainee pilots with a proper 'feel' of fully loaded aircraft and were not meant to be dropped, not even as training rounds. You will find a partial answer to your question about colours in the following topic: Unfortunately, I have no idea about lever in observer's cockpit. Cheers Jure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) It wasn't present on the Swordfish because the Swordfish didn't fly fast enough to need it. I haven't seen it described as a Japanese invention but it could be that the Kate was the first torpedo bomber fast enough to require one. It seems to have been an (almost) common solution to a common problem, for higher speed approaches, at slightly greater heights, resulted in the torpedo's nose dropping before entering the water, leading to greater depth and porpoising - not to mention a loss of accuracy and the possibility of breaking up. It was used by the Italians for carriage on the SM 79 Siluranti, and the Germans adopted the Italian torpedoes and technology. The US used a box tail rather than a wing with endplates. I suspect that the British Monoplane Air Tail preceded any awareness of other nations' approaches. but as the Beaufort lacked a weapons bay long enough to hold the tail, this might be a guide to the timing. (Though I suspect not: such a long bay would have required a more major redesign of the basic Blenheim configuration.) Edited June 1, 2017 by Graham Boak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 I don't think the MAT is what the OP was referring to. As Jure indicates, it's rather the rudders that sit aft of the cruciform fins at the rear of the torpedo. For example: ROYAL AIR FORCE: 1939-1945: COASTAL COMMAND. © IWM (CH 1854)IWM Non Commercial Licence J. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 And without said surfaces: TRAINING FLEET AIR ARM PILOTS IN TORPEDO DROPPING. ROYAL NAVAL AIR STATION, CRAIL.. © IWM (A 3535)IWM Non Commercial Licence Note that the above photo is captioned as being from a training station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 And the nose of the torpedo is light-toned. Apparently, training rounds had red or yellow noses which would tally with this picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) I cannot find any photos of a lever on the right hand side of the Looker's cockpit, & I have lots of pics of the RNHF Stringbags, plus other published refs. I don't have the Trumpy 1/32 Swordfish, being a 1/48 man (though it's very tempting!); any chance you could show a pic of the instructions / parts, so we can see which bit you are talking about? Edited June 18, 2017 by Ex-FAAWAFU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Hello Found it, finally. In his article Swordfish Ordnance, published in SAM, Harry Woodman wrote: ˝The ’live’ warhead was painted in the colour synonymous with HE, bright buff (i.e. a rich bright yellow). Dummy heads needed to be painted in a colour easily seen by recovery vessels, hence the use of a bright red. Judging from photographs carcase dummies were possibly painted black (as were dummy bombs) but this is speculative.˝. Unfortunately, I still have no idea about the lever. Cheers Jure 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne SF Posted June 20, 2017 Author Share Posted June 20, 2017 Okay, we're going to try and attach a photo. Big step for me, normally I avoid this point, but I've got a Flickr account going, and the photos are there (if I can ever find them again). Question was asked to show the instructions on the lever in the center cockpit (termed the "lookers" cockpit). Love that, I thought they were called observers. Anyway, here are the photos, I'm working on trying to get them bigger. I have no idea where this "direct" link is that's referred to in the FAQ on photos. I'll keep working on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne SF Posted June 20, 2017 Author Share Posted June 20, 2017 No idea how I finally did it, but here are larger legible copies. The part is E7 on the instructions, and the photo shows how I incorporated it into the "Lookers" cockpit. No idea if this is right or wrong, but I couldn't figure out any other way to make it fit. Thanks for your patience guys and I appreciate the help and the replies. As a new member, I must say I'm very impressed with this forum. It beats facebook hands down (or as I call it, the "Men Behaving Badly" site. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 4 hours ago, Airborne SF said: No idea how I finally did it, but here are larger legible copies. The part is E7 on the instructions, and the photo shows how I incorporated it into the "Lookers" cockpit. No idea if this is right or wrong, but I couldn't figure out any other way to make it fit. Thanks for your patience guys and I appreciate the help and the replies. As a new member, I must say I'm very impressed with this forum. It beats facebook hands down (or as I call it, the "Men Behaving Badly" site. Dont think its a lever, I think its a periscope for looking under the aircraft, I have seen something like this on another aircraft somewhere. Selwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 The Japanese used a periscopic bombsight, which may be what you are thinking of, but this doesn't look to be sophisticated enough for that job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 On 19/06/2017 at 1:18 PM, Jure Miljevic said: Hello Found it, finally. In his article Swordfish Ordnance, published in SAM, Harry Woodman wrote: ˝The ’live’ warhead was painted in the colour synonymous with HE, bright buff (i.e. a rich bright yellow). Dummy heads needed to be painted in a colour easily seen by recovery vessels, hence the use of a bright red. Judging from photographs carcase dummies were possibly painted black (as were dummy bombs) but this is speculative.˝. Unfortunately, I still have no idea about the lever. Cheers Jure Could you please tell me what issue this article is in? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 On 19 June 2017 at 8:18 PM, Jure Miljevic said: Hello Found it, finally. In his article Swordfish Ordnance, published in SAM, Harry Woodman wrote: .... Sounds interesting. What issue was the article in, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Hello Slight correction of my previous post: the article was not published in SAM, it was published in SAMI's January 2001 issue. My apologies for a mix up. Cheers Jure 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Many thanks. So easy to lose sight of all the brilliant info hidden away in those stacks of magazines! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Tell me about it. I occasionally browse through the old numbers of magazines and write down particularly interesting titles into a makeshift index for a future use. Nevertheless this is a drop in a sea compared to all those articles still waiting to be re-discovered and re-read. Cheers Jure 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 14 hours ago, Jure Miljevic said: Hello Slight correction of my previous post: the article was not published in SAM, it was published in SAMI's January 2001 issue. My apologies for a mix up. Cheers Jure Found it! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 They were (and still are) officially called Observers. Unofficially, since 'observe' means look, they're called "Lookers" (among many other things, generally far ruder...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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