A13 Cruiser Mk III/IV/IVa

[MikeR]

Is anyone aware of any aftermarket decals in 1/35 for these vehicles? I have the Bronco Mk IVA (kit CB35029) and the kit decals don't look all that great.

 

I'm currently thinking of making "Emperor" of 5RTR as it's in the Sudan variant of the caunter scheme. The Bronco kit seems a bit confused - the image on the side of the box shows the squadron markings and name in blue whilst the decal sheet has them in red - which is correct, or should they be purple as mentioned by Peter Brown in his A13 book? The decal sheet also seems to be missing the AoS and divisional markings too: LINK.

 

Also, is their a good source for the camouflage pattern for the Sudan scheme and are ColourCoats Light Purple Brown and Light Stone a good match for the original paint?

 

Lastly, does anyone know if the the most recent production runs of the A13 Mk III and A13 Mk IV kits have the updated engine decks included? I know they had the inaccurate decks originally. Likewise, is there any indication that Bronco went back and re-issued the A13 Mk III kit with the indylinks?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Mike.

Edited May 31, 2017 by MikeR

[JackG]

I haven't seen any aftermarket decals, not even as part of a desert set that would include the A13.  For generic markings, you can try here:

http://www.archertransfers.com/CAT_BritForSignsUnitSerials.html

http://www.archertransfers.com/AFTmain.html

Note, the first link are dry transfers.

 

Mike Starmer would be the one to ask for proper paint colours (and Caunter diagrams), but for the Emperor's scheme, he suggests the darker shade is Slate 34

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/thread/1302981312/2/Bronco+A13+colour+instructions

 

Doubtful that Bronco reboxed previous kits with corrected tracks and engine decks - if they did, they were quite silent about it.

 

regards,

Jack

 

Edited May 31, 2017 by JackG

[MikeR]

Hi Jack,

 

Looks like I've managed to answer my own question regarding the revised engine deck - it looks like Bronco did include the new parts in the CB35025 kit at least. I found an image of the kit parts on the Hobby.dn.ua site: THIS one shows the engine deck part. Compared it with the same sprue from the CB35029 kit from the same source it looks the same to me, just green rather than sand. Bronco still bundle the kit with the band tracks, however.

 

I found THIS thread on Finescale.com in which wing_nut builds the A13 Mk I which also shows the revised engine deck. It does show that Bronco have issued kits with the updated sprues included even if they've kept shtumm about it.

 

As for the Mk II/Cruiser Mk IV (CB35027) I haven't found anything conclusive - that Ukrainian site has it listed but they're aren't any sprue shots. It would be interesting to see if they also changed the incorrect turret parts. If they have then it should be effectively the same as CB35029 just with different decals and a slightly different construction process for the mantlet options.

 

I guess the trick would be getting a recent production run whilst avoiding old stock.

 

As for the decals, that's what I feared -  as always it seems that the Afrika Korps is more popular than the 8th Army whilst North West Europe and the Eastern Front attract more attention than the campaign in North Africa, at least where the decal manufacturers seem to be concerned.

 

Mike.

[JackG]

Actually, I do recall that build from Finescale you have linked - though it is bufflehead's work, while wingnut is quoting his post.  The kit did not include an updated deck, what he has done is make the corrections himself.

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The revised engine deck from Bronco, certainly an improvement.  I will only add that when compared to the resin upgrade, it still could use some tweaking, though for most, it's close enough.  TMD's deck has slightly narrower engine doors, by about 2mm, and the two access panels at the very rear are also slightly larger.   Bolt detail is noticeably beefier.

 

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Totally agree about aftermarket decals, but at least now we are being festooned with early British armour kits.

 

regards,

Jack

 

 

[Bullbasket]

I'm surprised if you got a Bronco A13 Cruiser with revised engine deck but still with the rubber band tracks. When they originally released the first one, they were taken to task over the tracks as they were too short and needed to be stretched over the wheels. I've got a couple of them, one which I've built, and it included the indy tracks. 

 

John.

[MikeR]

13 hours ago, JackG said:

Actually, I do recall that build from Finescale you have linked - though it is bufflehead's work, while wingnut is quoting his post.  The kit did not include an updated deck, what he has done is make the corrections himself.

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I'm not so sure - THIS image from his Photobucket stream doesn't seem to indicate any material was added at the rear to compensate for the detail being moved forward. I could be wrong though. Anyhoo, it's academic as it does appear that Bronco have included the revised deck in newer issues of that particular kit even if it seems to retain the band tracks. Hannants don't seem to sell out of that version so I can't really be sure of getting a new issue one if I order from them.

 

14 hours ago, JackG said:

The revised engine deck from Bronco, certainly an improvement.  I will only add that when compared to the resin upgrade, it still could use some tweaking, though for most, it's close enough.  TMD's deck has slightly narrower engine doors, by about 2mm, and the two access panels at the very rear are also slightly larger.   Bolt detail is noticeably beefier.

 

That's another thing I noticed - the plans in Peter Brown's volume have the details in a slightly different position and geometry to what Bronco did, but, those plans don't seem to match the photos in the book either. The main discernable difference being the position of the two hatches at the rear of the engine deck. The photos show a larger gap between their aft edge and the rear edge of the deck than what is on the plans. Ironically, the Bronco parts seem to match better, even if the whole still isn't accurate!

 

8 hours ago, Bullbasket said:

I'm surprised if you got a Bronco A13 Cruiser with revised engine deck but still with the rubber band tracks. When they originally released the first one, they were taken to task over the tracks as they were too short and needed to be stretched over the wheels. I've got a couple of them, one which I've built, and it included the indy tracks. 

 

John.

 

Are your kits all that initial version (CB35025)? Or do you have some of the later kits like CB35027 and CB35029?

 

It's a bit annoying in a way - like Dragon, Bronco seem to update their kits without giving any indication that they have done so. You could end up buying a kit with the original inaccurate parts if you end up with one that's been sitting in a warehouse for a while. They could at least add a suffix to the kit number!

 

Mike.

[Bullbasket]

14 minutes ago, MikeR said:

Are your kits all that initial version (CB35025)? Or do you have some of the later kits like CB35027 and CB35029?

 

It's a bit annoying in a way - like Dragon, Bronco seem to update their kits without giving any indication that they have done so. You could end up buying a kit with the original inaccurate parts if you end up with one that's been sitting in a warehouse for a while. They could at least add a suffix to the kit number!

I've got all three but the only one that I've built so far is the A13 Mk.ll Cruiser tank Mk.lV which I believe could be 35027. That had the indy tracks. 35025 has got the rubber band tracks and 35029 has got indy tracks and I believe the corrected engine deck. I bought 35029 cheap at the model show at Saumur a few years ago and it was a bit of a strange one as it came with two sets of Masterbox figures. Possibly a one off here in France.

I know what you mean though about reissuing kits with corrections in them but no indication on the box. Academy did that with their Grant. The VVSS was too high in the original and then they corrected it, but no indication on the box.

 

John.

[JackG]

Mike, my apologies - you are correct.  That engine deck as seen at the Finescale forum is indeed the revised one.  The fact that bufflehead had to trim the doors indicate Bronco kept the original ones, hence the oversize fit.

 

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Line drawings - along with the Peter Brown book, I've also the older Wydawnictwo publication from their Tank Power series.  Interesting here, only the earliest A13 (Mk I) has the access covers in the corners of the engine deck, while the drawing for Mk IIa does not - but photos show they should be present!

 

regards,

Jack

 

Edited June 1, 2017 by JackG

[Mike Starmer]

The Bronco models were all originally based on the old Bellona plans of the 1970, now found to be inaccurate in several important areas.  I have a pattern for the A13 Sudan pattern as used by 5 RTR in Egypt.  E-mail me at mikestarmer18 at gmail dot com for a copy or my Caunter book.  The drawing has been made from numerous photographs of the A13 and A10 Or 3 RTR in Greece, combined with a copy of the official 1940 Caunter diagram for cruiser tanks.

[Gordon J]

I started building the Bronco A13 Cruiser tank with the individual track links and found the contact points between the links to be so small that they kept breaking and coming apart. The kit is in a half built state firmly back in my stash with a box that contains literally hundreds of track links. It is a shame because the rest of the kit is fine but until someone releases either a resin or white metal set of tracks for this kit then I am afraid I would place this model in the unbuildable class.

[tonyot]

On 27/07/2017 at 7:17 PM, Gordon J said:

I started building the Bronco A13 Cruiser tank with the individual track links and found the contact points between the links to be so small that they kept breaking and coming apart. The kit is in a half built state firmly back in my stash with a box that contains literally hundreds of track links. It is a shame because the rest of the kit is fine but until someone releases either a resin or white metal set of tracks for this kit then I am afraid I would place this model in the unbuildable class.

I`n in the same position,..... waiting for some rubber band tracks hopefully!

 

Cheers

          Tony

[Gordon J]

While we are on the subject...does anyone know whether the A13 Cruiser tank used the same tracks as the Crusader tank because I am sure that replacement tracks are available for that model. It was originally an Italeri kit but has subsequently and quite recently been repackaged by Tamiya.

 

 

[JackG]

I haven't checked closely enough to find a statement that indicates whether or not tracks from the two types are interchangeable, but looking at the the track widths, the Crusader's is half inch wider.  I think that would probably make it enough not to fit the smaller sprocket of the A13 on the real thing?

 

http://www.wwiiequipment.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52:a9-a19-a13-cruser-tanks&catid=37:cruiser-tanks&Itemid=56

http://www.wwiiequipment.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:crusader-tank&catid=37:cruiser-tanks&Itemid=56

 

As a model you could probably get away with making them fit, in fact someone here states that is exactly what they did:

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/3/t/139993.aspx

 

Mind you, no mention was made if this was historically, or mechanically, correct.  The other thing to consider is track pattern, and to me I do notice a difference, particularly the openings down the middle of the track.  To some this may not be significant.

 

regards,

Jack

 

[Gordon J]

Many thanks for the links and the help Jack. That kind of information is exactly what I was looking for.

 

The Crusader tracks are not the same as the A13 but for the Bronco 1/35th model they may just have to do.

 

Gordon

[JackG]

No problem Gordon, it's an interesting question.

 

As far as I can find, only Accurate Armour and Friulmodel have made aftermarket tracks for the Crusader.  In their description, I think if it was historically correct, they would of mentioned their suitability for Cruiser tanks in order to increase sales of that product.   Unless of course these were made before the A13 kits were released and they never bothered updating their packaging .

 

https://accurate-armour.com/search?terms=crusader

http://www.friulmodel.hu/en/atl-69-crusader-i77/

 

regards,

Jack

[MikeR]

Considering that Bronco have gone for Link-and-Length tracks in their new and upcoming A9 and A10 kits I wonder if they'll go back and do the same for the A13? Apparently they've notified Hannants that they've withdrawn a number of kits from production which by the looks of it might include the A13's. Hannants don't have them listed whilst the track set and the two Beutepanzers are now limited availibility.

 

Mike.