What is this?

[Jenny]

Hi Bob

 

Thank you for your reply - once again I must apologise for not replying sooner.

 

I've spoken to the Marina and they have told me that the new owner is a "youngish chap" who wants to refit her as a liveaboard and is "very keen". I hope to meet him soon (apparently he is already spending a lot of time on her at the Marina working on her) and to wish him luck. I really need to inform him as to her little quirks - like needing to give the starboard alternator a thump before it will start charging after engine start up, how to use the two engines in opposite directions plus the bowthruster to leave a dock sidewards (really!) etc. The chap has plans to move her to Liverpool once she's fit enough and to carry on working on her from there, although what his plans are beyond that are I just don't know at this stage.

 

I also spoke to the Marina about the crane at the end of the dock - I know they lifted Ocean Quest for a bottom scrape and anode change with it a couple of years ago. The told me it would only lift about 20 tons.

 

I loved hearing about your experiences with lifeboats - I think you have to live or work on boats to understand the buzz of them - especially big old ones like Langemark. Adusting to the routine of a boat becomes a way of life and you either love it (as I do/did) or it just leaves you cold. I was thinking about which aspect of boats and boating I enjoyed the most over the time I have spent living on Langemark and I came to the conclusion it was the "blue horizon" - that point where you're at sea and there is no land in sight, just the sea in every direction - complete freedom.

 

All the best

Jenny

[ShipbuilderMN]

Hi Jenny,

Thanks for further info.    I didn't get to have another look at Langemark since the sale.   Each time I did the weekly shopping since then, it has been freezing cold and hailstones!       Sorry to hear it will be going to Liverpool.      For a long time, I have thought that greater use could have been made of Preston Dock.   All that vast expanse of water, with not a great deal on it.     Probably drastically reducing the dock dues would fill it up, and having more boats thrashing around would probably disperse the green algae as well.   It was always clear of it when it was a dock.    What a lot could be done to Preston Dock with a bit of imagination.   They could have had a maritime museum, boating lake for radio controlled models etc, lots of small shops and cafes cafes etc.    I am thinking about how they developed the old dock in Cape Town, and called it The Waterfront.       Considering it was once quite a large dock, there is so little interest shown in maritime things in Preston.   Even the Harris Museum & Art Gallery doesn't have a maritime section -    Here is a drawing I made of the old Helen Craig, that sailed out of Preston between 1891 and 1959, whe she was finally  sold for scrap.

Bob 

[ShipbuilderMN]

It was a nice sunny day today, so I went along to the docks.    As I arrived at Langemark, they started the engine.      The whole boat was quickly engulfed in thick grey smoke, but the engine sounded sweet enough.    After a few minutes running, all the smoke cleared away, so I suppose it was just because it hadn't been going for some time.      I don't know if they just ran one, or both, but whatver they did, as I said, it sounded smooth enough!  

Bob

 

 

[ShipbuilderMN]

And here we have the image.    Bob  

[noseyinterloper]

hi all, and especially jenny, hope you don't mind me resurrecting this thread ! but i have noticed the langemark is up for sale again.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/68FT-WIDEBEAM-EX-WW2-ARMY-CRUISER-YACHT-LIVEABOARD-HOUSE-BOAT-SAILAWAY-PROJECT/253355421139?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

 

my interest is that i am currently fantasising about buying a liveaboard vessel. some might call me a tyre kicker. 

i love it when i stumble upon threads on forums that i wouldn't normally visit, that end up telling a story such as this one. 

anyway i thought you all may be interested that the boat is being resold and in following the auction (which i probably won't bid on.)

but to have a comprehensive history must be a huge positive for anyone considering a purchase like this.

all the very best

phil

 

[ShipbuilderMN]

Thanks,

That is very interesting.   I will keep an eye on it!

Bob

 

[Jenny]

Hi All

 

Many thanks for that information Phil - I did not know this. I have still not gotten around to speaking to the purchaser. Although I have visited the Marina several times since leaving the boat I have always managed to miss him.

 

I know that there were at least one or two other prospective purchasers who were very keen to buy but lost out in the flurry of bids at the end of the last auction so perhaps one of them will go for it again. I'll pop down to the marina tomorrow to see what I can find out and report back.

 

All the best.

 

Jenny

 

P.S.

On 14/01/2018 at 12:59, noseyinterloper said:

my interest is that i am currently fantasising about buying a liveaboard vessel. some might call me a tyre kicker. 

 

 

 

Just do it, Phil. I promise it will change your life!  J.

 

[noseyinterloper]

On 15/01/2018 at 16:27, Jenny said:

 

Just do it, Phil. I promise it will change your life!  J.

 

thanks Jenny, this is just what i need. encouragement !

did you manage to find anything out today i was wondering ?

obviously you and Bob live nearby, i'm way down south unfortunately.

still no bids on ebay, and i have a funny feeling there may not be any.

maybe he's starting the bidding a little too high ?

if one of the rival bidders in the firast auction is still interested i would imagine they would hesitate to pay £1600 more than the winner won the auction for initially,

unless, that is, they can establish that he has added that amount of value to the boat. which he may well have done of course ! who knows !

then again, a completely new buyer may emerge who knows nothing of the first auction and thinks this is a nice bargain. we shall see.

cheers

phil

[Jenny]

Hi All

 

I went to see the guys at the marina today. They havent been officially involved in this latest auction and they don't know for sure why the purchaser has decided to put Langemark up for auction again. Their best guess is that  he's realised he's taken on more than he can handle, but of course they're could be many other reasons. They tell me that he has put quite a bit of work into the boat so the £14,000 starting price isn't unreasonable seeing as how he paid £12K for the boat in the first place. When I left the marina office I thought I would go and have a closer look at Langemark but sometime since I moved off the boat the marina have changed the key code on the gate. I'll pop down there again tomorrow and ask if they will let me onto the pontoons so that I can see for myself what work he has done on the exterior superstructure.

 

When we (the executors of the estate) sold Langemark we commisioned the marina to handle the sale and I must say they did an excellent job - adverts and articles all over the boating press, local radio interviews (emphasizing the "historic" aspect etc) and also the prospectus. They also put a long time limit (4 weeks) on the auction. As far as I know all this work hasn't been done this time and the auction time hasn't been particularly long so the news that Langemark is back on the market will not have reached many people. She is a bit of a niche market boat to say the least so I don't think she will get many bids (if any) bearing in mind the lack of sales promotion.

 

There is another issue though; there is an unwritten law in marine circles that if you are selling a boat from a marina then the marina are entitled to be the brokers for the boat unless you negotiate with them first and they are willing to forgo the brokership and as far as I know this hasn't been done even though it would have been specified in the berthing contract. Also, Langemark is a massive boat (40+ tons, 68ft) and cannot be lifted out at the marina or the boatyard so the marina office put special conditions on the sale (detailed in the prospectus) and I don't know whether the buyer is aware these should be adhered to by any new owner.

 

As an aside, I got a call the other week from the other executor (Toni's youngest son) that he had been informed that Langemark was on eBay with a buy-it-now price of 24K but when he logged on to eBay to see for himself it wasn't there!

 

So the story continues.........

 

As mentioned earlier, I'll pop down there again tomorrow and try to get a closer look at her. I'll also ask if there are any updates and report back.

 

All the best

 

Jenny

 

P.S. Phil - if you're serious about going liveaboard, learn to tie a bowline - it could save your life! Bob - do you agree? J

[noseyinterloper]

26 minutes ago, Jenny said:

As an aside, I got a call the other week from the other executor (Toni's youngest son) that he had been informed that Langemark was on eBay with a buy-it-now price of 24K but when he logged on to eBay to see for himself it wasn't there!

 

 

P.S. Phil - if you're serious about going liveaboard, learn to tie a bowline - it could save your life! Bob - do you agree? J

hi jenny, thanks for all that. seems to me the seller is a trader. he has sold 2 other boats recently. one a narrowboat for which he initially got £5k for but clearly this sale fell through and subsequently he sold it for about £1650. another; a dawncraft cabin cruiser.

the buyer of the dawncraft left the following feedback which certainly made me smile anyway;

 

I like This Vessel Free.Free Fruits Trees Freedom is Evolutionist 1st Flower Fre	Buyer:  c***e ( 1 )	During past 6 months
	27 FOOT DAWNCRAFT CENTRE CONSOLE CABIN CRUISER WITH NEW ENGINE & NEW CANOPY (#253164947038)

[Jenny]

Hi All

 

I've been back to the Marina yet again and this time I managed to get a closer look at Langemark. It looks like he has cleaned up the exterior quite a bit and put a coat of paint over it. It certainly does look a bit better. I spoke to the marina again about the boat and they said that as far as they knew he has done a fair bit of work on the engines; it's true that they havd been idle for a long time before the marina started them to test them out for the original sale but as far as I remember they were in good condition and sounding sweet, not missing a beat etc. before they were turned off the last time we got back to the marina from the Isle of Man.

 

The marina office are not happy that the guy lied to them about his intentions when he bought the boat (they've now seen the chap's eBay trading history) - the last thing they wanted was a trader looking to make a fast buck, especially one who obviously does not understand the amount of promotion needed to sell an an old classic boat like Langemark. I feel sorry for them too - they are really nice and genuine people who do their best for their customers and the marina residents. Unfortunately they are caught between a rock and a hard place, the guy did win the original auction fairly and squarely and he has got a right to advertise the boat on his own - although, as I mentioned in an earlier post, he does not have the right to sell it from the berth without their permission. Whether they can effectively hold him to a breach of contract remains to be seen though.  Although they did not mention this, if I were them my fear would be an insurance fraud (scuttling/fire etc.) if he cannot sell the boat, and I would hate to see that happen to Langemark.

 

As far as selling the boat goes, I notice that as of now (18.00 thursday) he has had only 5 inquiries and no bids with 1.5 days to go.

 

I noticed in his eBay advert that he recommends a berth at Glasson. Glasson Dock is a lovely place but is cheap because it is so isolated, especially during the winter season. I am pretty sure that he will not have repaired the bowthruster (or probably even knows what one is) and there is no way I would try to manouver Langemark into Glasson without a functioning bowthruster.

 

All in all it looks like the situation is a right mess.

 

I'll keep checking with the marina and if there is any update I'll report it back to the forum.

 

All the best

Jenny

[noseyinterloper]

cheers jenny. he better not do an insurance fraud. it looks like a bloody nice boat, although whenever i've looked at marine surveyors websites they always state that buying an old wooden boat is buying, as they put it, a "depreciating asset".

perhaps he'll end up cutting his losses a little bit who knows. i sort of respect him in a way because he's taken quite a big gamble possibly.

i would love to buy it and drive it down to shoreham, brighton or newhaven. how long that would take and where to stop along the way i wouldn't know. or how much it would cost in diesel.

brighton marina would charge about 10 or 11 thousand a year to stick it in there. but i could rent out my flat for about the same.

i could "air bnb" both. living on/in one when not in the other one. not quite done the sums yet, still in the "dreamer" stage, but for a wooden boat, langemark looks to have a lot going for it. especially as the hull seems ok by all accounts. you gotta have your dreams haven't you though.

more likely/realistically for me is i'll buy a river/canal boat.

phil

[ShipbuilderMN]

18th Jan, 2018. 

 I have just been down to the docks to have a look.    It doesn't look much different to me, and a bit of green showing on the white of the hull now.    He now has a bid for £14,000!      Even so, he may not break even, as presumably, he has had some dock dues to pay, and also spent some money on it already.     In my experience of Ebay, early bidders seldom get the item.      Experienced bidders will wait until the last fifteen seconds or so, and then leap in with the maximum they are prepared to pay.       I, however, do not sell expensive items,   usually bits & pieces less than £20 a time, so it may be different with expensive items such as Langemark.    But just watch the last few seconds, and I think you will be surprised.!

Bob

[noseyinterloper]

hi bob. i think with high value items where no head of steam is built up in the auction, ie a relatively high starting price, it can be a bit different.

my guess is one bid will be the end of it. maybe 2 at a push.

my next guess is the sale could easily fall through after that. which quite often happens with things like this, and has happened in one of this chaps previous auctions for a narrowboat.

it also happened here with the burnham titanic;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Steel-Houseboat-Project-For-Sale-/263419192564?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=Dg58UgDfFGDLstrDR1iJcntQvcM%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

[ShipbuilderMN]

18th Jan 1800 hrs.

Well, It has now had six bids, and gone up to £18,100!      Now it has started, I expect there will be a few last minute bids seconds from the ending time!     I would think that it is almost certain that at least one of the bidders actually intends to go through with the purchase.   It will be very interesting in the run up to the close tonight!

Bob

 

 

[Jenny]

Hi All

 

He's still only got the one buyer at £14K as at 18.00, but as Bob says, another buyer could step in at the last minute. The marina only know for certain of one person who has been to inspect the boat but as they are not handling the sale themselves they knew nothing about him. Looking at his additions (in CAPS) to the inventory stuff that I wrote he makes the claim that the boat would be suitable for inshore cruising - this is not a claim I would make without a full survey. I would say that Langemark could safely be sailed to Fleetwood with a competent crew on a very calm day (say in late Spring) from a very high spring tide (otherwise she will never get up the Ribble because of her draft) where she could be travel-lifted out for a full inspection and refit. Even then without a working bowthruster she'd be difficult to manouver into the lift bay - you really would have to be skilled in the art of using seperate forward/reverse manouvers on the twin screws. There is no way that Preston Marina would endorse his comments either! By the way "competent crew" would to my mind be one that amongst other things recognises that a large wooden boat flexes a lot on a sea voyage and requires bilging out every hour or so whilst underway!

 

Bob - you're right,the boat doesn't look that different but he has cleaned up the superstructure a little and slapped a coat of paint over where all the paint had weathered off. As you say, he may not have brake even especially if you take into account all the work he claims to have done. Then  again, if you look at the eBay comments from his buyers, he tends to overstate how good/well maintained.

 

As usual, if  get any news I'll post back.

 

All the best

Jenny

[Jenny]

Hi all

 

Just found out he'a sold at £18,100 - Bob, you were right!

 

That's some profit, I wonder who has got it. I'll not be able to get to the marina until after the wekend but I'll pop down there on Monday and find out.

 

All the best.

Jenny

[noseyinterloper]

thats interesting as it was due to end at 10pm tonight. it says the seller ended the auction as the item was sold.

2 bidders and he's taken an offer by the look of it. ebay wont like that if in ending it he's not paying them their fee.

they would class that as a breach of conditions. i've done that before and got a warning off them.

don't worry. it'll be back on again soon. perhaps.

[ShipbuilderMN]

In my opinion, the seller just accepted an offer made by a bidder and it was all done through Ebay!    You can do this, and it is quite legit.   If you look at the list of bidders they are nearly all the same person, although another bidder pushed it up to £17,500 and then £18,000.     I guess that the one who got it made an offer via Ebay and that is why they are shown as the winning bidder.   It says that the sale ended with ....... bidding at £18,100!

Bob

 

 

Edited January 18, 2018 by ShipbuilderMN
Corrected info

[noseyinterloper]

you are right bob, it all looks legit re ebay.

4***c(338)	£18,100.00	18 Jan 2018 at 6:05:19PM GMT
w***r(0)	£18,000.00	18 Jan 2018 at 4:01:27PM GMT
w***r(0)	£17,500.00	18 Jan 2018 at 9:30:20AM GMT
4***c(338)	£14,500.00	18 Jan 2018 at 6:04:59PM GMT
4***c(338)	£14,300.00	18 Jan 2018 at 6:04:47PM GMT
4***c(338)	£14,100.00	18 Jan 2018 at 6:04:40PM GMT
Starting price	£14,000.00	8 Jan 2018 at 10:03:27PM GMT

 

i still think it looks a bit funny. even though i'm not quite sure what i mean by that. i will stick to my guns and say this thread will last a bit longer.

 

[Jenny]

Hi All

 

Looking at the bidding (especially the huge jump from 14500 to 175000) do you think w***r is a plant?

 

Jenny

[noseyinterloper]

12 hours ago, Jenny said:

Hi All

 

Looking at the bidding (especially the huge jump from 14500 to 175000) do you think w***r is a plant?

 

Jenny

i do yes. i just took a look at his completed listings. both times he tried to sell the narrowboat the winner had zero feedback ratings. and the same with the car that he sold.

if you go to his ebay page. click on" items for sale" then click "completed listings". next click on the bids number.

you will notice all his auctions are won by, as you put it, a plant.

(or it could be an amazing coincidence that his auctions are won by an ebay newbie !)

i think this is called "shill bidding". what he could then do having won the auction himself is contact the second highest bidder claiming that the "winner" has pulled out.

this ensures that he gets the highest price the second high bidder has left on the system.

 

edit; in the langemark auction he has not pushed his luck so that his plant wins. he has been content to push the genuine bidders bid up to 18,000, which if you notice the bid times, was left on the system already by the buyer. tch tch tch. totally below the belt and illegal on ebay. will the buyer twig ?

i hope so.

Edited January 19, 2018 by noseyinterloper

[Tecnich]

Hello all, apologies for barging in here but felt I needed to join up and put in my pennyworth. I came across this site when initially looking for information on Langemark, and where I learnt of your loss Jenny.

I followed the original listing, prior to the auction, and visited Langemark for an inspection before bidding in the marina auction. I based my top bid on not only the condition of Langemark but also on the terms laid down by the marina (which were not unreasonable considering they do not have the facilities to lift her should anything happen) as these would mean getting her ready to be moved in quite a short time frame. I missed out by not much, but that's ebay,and at the time I would not have bid more.

I was surprised to see her for sale again soon after the first auction, at a fixed price of £24k. I was so surprised that I contacted Steve at the marina to see if the same contract conditions would apply  (half price berthing to April, then up to full price to June)

Steve had not known that she had been relisted, and seemed to indicate that he may well not offer the same berthing terms to a new owner. The listing was removed about a week after that, stating that there was an error in the listing description(?)

Langemark then appeared again on the 8th January at a starting price of £14k, as you have said, eventually appearing to be sold for £18100. Sorry for being so long winded, but I was genuinely interested in taking on Langemark as a long term project.

What I found disturbing in his latest listing was that he gave individual items a price (engines £5k each, heater £2k, spotlights £5k pair etc.) as if listing for breaking, again something the marina was dead against.

He now has two propellers for sale, the two spares which were in the engine room and were included in his listing as part of the sale. He claims not to know what type of boat they would be for.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Two-Matching-BRASS-Boat-Propellers-Port-Starboard-VERY-HEAVY-SOLID-BRASS/253382183405?

So, has he nicked these before the sale hoping the new buyer would not notice, does the new buyer not actually exist, or are they going to quietly strip her out between them?(still not sure the new buyer exists, the bids are weird to say the least)

It is all very sad, there are areas of rot on the topsides which a 'lick of paint' is not going to cure, but she is still a great boat, and if his intensions are to simply strip and sell, I am sure Steve and the marina will be less than pleased.

I hope that this is not the case and that Langemark does find a new owner who is going to restore her to at least a usable level.

[Jenny]

Hi Tecnich

 

THank you for your interest in Langemark. I've been back to the Marina to see Steve and Sue several times and have managed to glean a few bits of information - hopefully I can answer (at least to some degree!) some of the points you raised. When I first heard about the relisting I went down to see Steve who had only just seen the new (£14K listing). He was refusing to have anything to do with it because (as you point out) some of the claims the guy was making were just crazy. At that stage it had only just dawned on Steve that the guy had lied about his intentions and he was worried about him stripping the boat and abandoning it.

 

The auction went through, suspicious bidding notwithstanding, and the new owner (someone called Chris) has apparently accepted the Marina's original terms. Sue was going to arrange a meeting between him and me so I could tell him what I knew about keeping Langemark afloat, sailing her and offering to help crew her to a new home - but that hasn't yet happened. I would definitely not recommend taking her to Glasson without a working bowthruster and I know that the cranes at Glasson could not lift her; the only sensible place nearby to lift her out would be Fleetwood. Sue thinks the new owner, although not a boatee, seems legit - but then again she's not as cynical as I am.

 

I checked the eBay link given and yes I can confirm that they are Langemark's spare props. These props were professionally refurbished in 2011 when we were on the slip at Ramsey - the refurbishment cost us a fortune! They have never been used since and are in perfect condition and worth a lot of money, and yes, they were part of the listing. I wonder if it might be worth someone quietly letting eBay know; I'm sure they would find a lot to be suspicious about in this series of auctions. If I ever get to meet the new owner I will make sure he is aware of all this.

 

Langemark meant a great deal to me and it annoys me more than I can say that this guy has deliberately exploited the Marina and put Langemark's future at risk. I had really hoped that whoever bought her would make an effort to restore her back into working order and I'm sorry you didn't win the original auction.

 

As soon as I have any more information I'll post it on this thread.

 

All the best

Jenny

 

 

[Tecnich]

Hi Jenny

Thank you for the update. I fully understand your attachment to and concerns for Langemark. The conditions the marina had put in place seemed to ensure that any new owner would have to stick to them and get her back to a seaworthy state. Such a shame that this guy seems to have simply seen it as an opportunity to make money rather than restore her. Hopefully the new owner will stick to the terms and rescue her. It may well be worth mentioning to him (or Sue and Steve so they can speak to him) about the props, they were definitely in the listing he bid on.

Take care of your self and don't get into any trouble over all of this.

 

Tim