Phantome Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Indeed, to each their own. Can't please everybody! I prefer the middle ground of a few rivets in certain panels to break the monotony of just lines. I agree that it can be overdone. The exception to this is Tamiya's amazing F-16 kit. It's quite rivet-heavy but they are done so nicely that it looks gorgeous and not-overdone at all. I have never seen better surface detail on a 1/72 kit. Then the flip side to that are some of the short-run manufacturers that go overboard with rivets and without the engineering capability to make them look subtle. My issue with no rivets on the Su-27 is that it's a big plane with big panels. I have done Zvezda's MiG-29 which also lacks rivets but it doesn't look that sparse, because the panels are smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Well, there's always the rivet tool. Cheers, Andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantome Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Hook said: Well, there's always the rivet tool. Cheers, Andre Which I am terrible at using... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sroubos Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 Is the Trumpeter the kit to go for if you want an older Su-27? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flankerman Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 24 minutes ago, sroubos said: Is the Trumpeter the kit to go for if you want an older Su-27? Yes - they do a 'vanilla' Su-27 ....plus an 'early version' Not as 100% accurate as Zvezda's Su-27SM - but perfectly acceptable. Note that the Su-27SM is only operated by Russia - and as the Su-27SKM - by Indonesia. No other countries use it. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gondor44 Posted June 25, 2017 Author Share Posted June 25, 2017 12 hours ago, Flankerman said: Yes - they do a 'vanilla' Su-27 ....plus an 'early version' Not as 100% accurate as Zvezda's Su-27SM - but perfectly acceptable. Note that the Su-27SM is only operated by Russia - and as the Su-27SKM - by Indonesia. No other countries use it. Ken So what is the difference between the Su-27SM/SKM and other versions? Gondor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flankerman Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Gondor44 said: So what is the difference between the Su-27SM/SKM and other versions? The Su-27SM (Serial, Modified - i.e in Production Upgraded) is a mid life upgrade between the legacy Su-27 and fully updated/new-build Su-35S Visually, it has the IRST (Infra-Red Search and Track) ball moved from the centre of the windscreen (as on Su-27) to the starboard side of the windscreen - with a prominent mounting plinth/fairing. This was done to make room for a retractable IFR (In Flight Refuelling) probe on the port fuselage below the windscreen. Although... strangely, the Russian AF Su-27SM does NOT have the IFR probe fitted - but the Indonesian Su-27SKM does (the K stands for 'Kommercheskiy' - 'Commercial' or Export) One other minor visual difference is the RWR antenna on the leading edge slats at mid-span - plus a few antenna changes on the fins. So, to make a legacy Su-27 from Zvezda's Su-27SM, you would need to move the IRST ball back to the centre of the windscreen and remove its fairing (not an easy task) and remove the RWR antenna from the slats. You would also need to add the triangular-shaped RWR antenna on the intake sides of a legacy Su-27. Are you still with me ?? - Questions will be asked later. FWIW, my Zvezda Su-27SM build is here..... and my Trumpeter legacy Su-27 (in digital camo) is here. Happy Flankering Ken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usetherudders Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Throwing into the mix does anyone do a SU30sm as used by Russia in Syria? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flankerman Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 AFAIK, there are currently no canard-equipped Flanker kits on the market - (apart from the Su-33 & Su-34) You have to scratch/convert......... http://www.flankers-site.co.uk/modl_su-30sm.html Ken 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gondor44 Posted June 25, 2017 Author Share Posted June 25, 2017 9 hours ago, Flankerman said: Are you still with me ?? - Questions will be asked later. Happy Flankering Ken Very much so. Am I correct in making the assumption that the Flankers with Canards start with a 3 rather than a 2, i.e. Su-30 & Si-33 rather than Su-27? Gondor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flankerman Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 10 hours ago, Gondor44 said: Am I correct in making the assumption that the Flankers with Canards start with a 3 rather than a 2, i.e. Su-30 & Si-33 rather than Su-27? Not really - the Su-30MKK/MKV/M2 doesn't have canards - it's just coincidental. In the beginning all Flankers had a Su-27 designation applied by the RusAF - with a suffix letter denoting the role....... Su-27 Standard fighter Su-27UB (Uchebno Boyevoy - Combat Trainer) Su-27K (Korabel - Shipborne) - this became the Su-33 Su-27KUB (Shipborne Trainer) - this became Su-33UB - since cancelled. Su-27IB (Istrebitel Bombardirovschik - Fighter Bomber) - this became the Su-34 Su-27M (Modified) - this became the original Su-35 (with canards) - not the new Su-35S etc etc... It was Sukhois own PR department that changed the names to Su-33. Su-34 etc etc - and the new designations have been adopted by the RusAF Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantome Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 On 6/24/2017 at 10:39 PM, Flankerman said: Yes - they do a 'vanilla' Su-27 ....plus an 'early version' Not as 100% accurate as Zvezda's Su-27SM - but perfectly acceptable. Note that the Su-27SM is only operated by Russia - and as the Su-27SKM - by Indonesia. No other countries use it. Ken Is the Trumpeter vanilla/early that much better than the old Hasegawa? Which wasn't too shabby... Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Phantome said: Is the Trumpeter vanilla/early that much better than the old Hasegawa? Which wasn't too shabby... Just curious. The Hasegawa suffers from a number of inaccuracies - see Ken Duffeys excellent writeup here. Cheers, Andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sroubos Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 On 24/06/2017 at 11:39 PM, Flankerman said: Yes - they do a 'vanilla' Su-27 ....plus an 'early version' Not as 100% accurate as Zvezda's Su-27SM - but perfectly acceptable. Note that the Su-27SM is only operated by Russia - and as the Su-27SKM - by Indonesia. No other countries use it. Ken Thanks. I will have to get this kit some time, I'd love to built a Su-27 but not a Russian one, looking for something a bit different. Amazing to see how many inaccurate kits there are of this plane... a long time ago I got hold of the old Revell boxing and tried to modify that to make it look like a Flanker. Biggest single waste of time ever. When I look back at my life I hope I will not have many regrets - but this will be one of them! I want those two weeks of modelling time back, Revell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 7 minutes ago, sroubos said: Thanks. I will have to get this kit some time, I'd love to built a Su-27 but not a Russian one, looking for something a bit different. Amazing to see how many inaccurate kits there are of this plane... a long time ago I got hold of the old Revell boxing and tried to modify that to make it look like a Flanker. Biggest single waste of time ever. When I look back at my life I hope I will not have many regrets - but this will be one of them! I want those two weeks of modelling time back, Revell! Well, it's easy to forget that a lot of these kits were designed way back when all we had were a couple of blurry pics from behind the Iron Curtain. Hasegawa MiG-29, anyone..? Cheers, Andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gondor44 Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 8 hours ago, Hook said: Hasegawa MiG-29, anyone..? Cheers, Andre NO!!!! don't remind me of that awful thing! It's one of the few kits I have thrown out! The weapons were a flight of fancy for sure let alone the shape of that supposed aircraft! 13 hours ago, Flankerman said: Not really - the Su-30MKK/MKV/M2 doesn't have canards - it's just coincidental. In the beginning all Flankers had a Su-27 designation applied by the RusAF - with a suffix letter denoting the role....... Su-27 Standard fighter Su-27UB (Uchebno Boyevoy - Combat Trainer) Su-27K (Korabel - Shipborne) - this became the Su-33 Su-27KUB (Shipborne Trainer) - this became Su-33UB - since cancelled. Su-27IB (Istrebitel Bombardirovschik - Fighter Bomber) - this became the Su-34 Su-27M (Modified) - this became the original Su-35 (with canards) - not the new Su-35S etc etc... It was Sukhois own PR department that changed the names to Su-33. Su-34 etc etc - and the new designations have been adopted by the RusAF Ken That's making it look as if there is a whole alphabet of variations out there! Could you expand on that list or point me at somewhere that makes it relatively easy to work out what is specific to which aircraft version so I know what I need to do to any specific model to make a version I want? Gondor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sroubos Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Perhaps companies should not make kits when they have so little information available. Revell still have that ridiculous caricature of the F-117 in 1/144 in their catalogue. Absolutely unforgivable. Along with them repopping their awful 60s kits that surely makes them the most cynical of kit makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 On dinsdag 27 juni 2017 at 5:42 PM, sroubos said: Perhaps companies should not make kits when they have so little information available. Then again, there is of course the race to be the first to have a kit of the latest superfighter in the shops. Quote Along with them repopping their awful 60s kits that surely makes them the most cynical of kit makers. Well, Airfix repopped their ancient 1/72nd Bf 109E in a shiny new box just before releasing their very nice new tool... I got suckered into buying two of them, thinking I was getting the new mold.... Cheers, Andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantome Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 On 6/30/2017 at 0:02 PM, Hook said: Then again, there is of course the race to be the first to have a kit of the latest superfighter in the shops. Which leads to things like the Hasegawa vs Fujimi "Battle for the Fulcrum" in the late 80s... the end result being two terrible kits and no decent alternatives for nearly **three** decades! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman2 Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Amigo have a Great update set for the Trumpeter Su-24MR, now you can actually make a correct MR from the kit. Net Photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gondor44 Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 Now received my first Zvezda Su-33 and waiting on an Su-27SM to arrive. If the canopy and IRST ball of the SM is the same as for the 33 then converting the SM to an earlier 27 will not be a problem. Gondor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMA131Marine Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 On 6/26/2017 at 6:07 PM, Gondor44 said: NO!!!! don't remind me of that awful thing! It's one of the few kits I have thrown out! The weapons were a flight of fancy for sure let alone the shape of that supposed aircraft! That's making it look as if there is a whole alphabet of variations out there! Could you expand on that list or point me at somewhere that makes it relatively easy to work out what is specific to which aircraft version so I know what I need to do to any specific model to make a version I want? Gondor The Fujimi and Hasegawa kits both appeared in 1987, which was before the fall of the Berlin Wall and before Western kit makers had access to details of these aircraft, beyond photos taken at Western airshows. It is not surprising that they are not particularly accurate. The Airfix and Italeri MiG-29 kits date from a few years later and they clearly benefit from the additional information that became available as the then Soviet Union started to open up. I agree that the Fujimi and Hasegawa kits are not worth building now if you want an accurate model, but they are a reflection of what was known at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flankerman Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 10 hours ago, Gondor44 said: Now received my first Zvezda Su-33 and waiting on an Su-27SM to arrive. If the canopy and IRST ball of the SM is the same as for the 33 then converting the SM to an earlier 27 will not be a problem. The Su-27SM is the same........ To convert to 'standard' Su-27 - you need to remove the raised mounting plinth/fill the recess and scratch a new central IRST. .... and remove the RWR antenna from the slats...... Then add the triangular 'Beryoza' antenna to the intake sides... Happy Flankering Ken 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gondor44 Posted July 6, 2017 Author Share Posted July 6, 2017 (edited) On 06/07/2017 at 9:39 AM, Flankerman said: The Su-27SM is the same........ To convert to 'standard' Su-27 - you need to remove the raised mounting plinth/fill the recess and scratch a new central IRST. .... and remove the RWR antenna from the slats...... Then add the triangular 'Beryoza' antenna to the intake sides... Happy Flankering Ken As I said, nothing to it although I might just build my first Zvezda Su-27 straight out of the box. Gondor Edited July 7, 2017 by Gondor44 Speiling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 22 hours ago, Flankerman said: The Su-27SM is the same........ To convert to 'standard' Su-27 - you need to remove the raised mounting plinth/fill the recess and scratch a new central IRST. .... and remove the RWR antenna from the slats...... Then add the triangular 'Beryoza' antenna to the intake sides... Happy Flankering Ken Ken, those pictures seem to show that the Zvezda windscreen can be reused, would you agree with this ? All other modifications look easy enough to me, but having to modify a clear part is always something I'm not happy about.. thanks ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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