1/144 - Lockheed C-5B & M (Super) Galaxy by Roden - C-5B & C-5M released - upgrade sets by Metallic Details

[snapper_city]

If I had a £ for every comment on this thread I could afford a Roden C-5B.

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by snapper_city

[Branky]

Well, My local modelshop guy is less than amused. He has a stack of Roden C5 kits waiting for customers who of course won't turn up. Now he is wee weed off by Roden and is considering not stocking any new Roden kits again because 'too expensive, won't sell"   Roden did themselves a good favour here.

[VMA131Marine]

20 hours ago, ICMF said:

 

That's not how margins work at all.

Do go on!

 

Roden, and indeed all kit makers, treat each kit as an investment from which they expect a positive return. That's principally why Hornby massively cut it's product lines this year to eliminate money losing items. If Roden is to make money on the C-5, then the revenue from sales has to exceed the initial investment in creating the moulds as well as the cost of production, plus their overhead margin. 

 

There are some prominent loss-leader products on the market, the Bugatti Veyron (now superseded) comes to mind, but most companies are not going to intentionally sell products with a negative return on investment.

[VMA131Marine]

2 hours ago, Branky said:

Well, My local modelshop guy is less than amused. He has a stack of Roden C5 kits waiting for customers who of course won't turn up. Now he is wee weed off by Roden and is considering not stocking any new Roden kits again because 'too expensive, won't sell"   Roden did themselves a good favour here.

So he's blaming Roden for not knowing his clientele? That makes sense #sarcasm!

[VMA131Marine]

4 hours ago, Albeback52 said:

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that turned out to be true!!  

 

Allan

You're kidding yourself if you think Trumpeter would sell a 1/144 C-5 at a substantially lower price. 

[ICMF]

21 hours ago, Albeback52 said:

Roden ( as the earlier poster said) may very well have done their sums and figured that is what price they need to set in order to make money on the kit.

Again, that is not how margins work.

6 hours ago, Dave Fleming said:

'If people are prepared to pay that. then that's the price the amrket will support for an injection one'

That is how margins work.  That's how business works.  You calculate your price to maximize your profit, both by driving down production costs and by maximizing retail price.  You don't try to figure out 'what's a good bargain for my customers'?  You don't try to figure out what it'll cost, and then add a set percentage for 'profit'.  You figure out 'what's the most lucrative price for my business?'  

 

Roden's C-5 doesn't cost 4x more than other kits because it cost 4x more to develop.  It costs 4x more because they believe people will pay 4x more.  They probably would turn a profit if it cost about as much as their other cargo planes.  But it's priced at $150 because they think they'll make a much larger profit at that price.  

[snapper_city]

19 minutes ago, ICMF said:

Roden's C-5 doesn't cost 4x more than other kits because it cost 4x more to develop.  It costs 4x more because they believe people will pay 4x more.  They probably would turn a profit if it cost about as much as their other cargo planes.  But it's priced at $150 because they think they'll make a much larger profit at that price.  

 

If they think that they really need to lay off the vodka. 

[Albeback52]

9 hours ago, snapper_city said:

 

If they think that they really need to lay off the vodka. 

Or,more likely, lay in a few extra bottles to drown their sorrows when the news finally sinks in that they have a real loser on their hands. Regardless of the hows,why's and wherefores of how the retail price was set, if we as consumers are not prepared to pay that price then surely all their dreams of a fat (or even slim) profit on the C-5 go up in smoke.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Albeback52

[snapper_city]

1 hour ago, Albeback52 said:

Or,more likely, lay in a few extra bottles to drown their sorrows when the news finally sinks in that they have a real loser on their hands. Regardless of the hows,why's and wherefores of how the retail price was set, if we as consumers are not prepared to pay that price then surely all their dreams of a fat (or even slim) profit on the C-5 go up in smoke.

Unfortunately for them, you, me, the other 99% that I have seen on here, Facebook and other forums that wanted a C-5 in their stash. They have all said it is hugely too expensive and they will not be buying one. Again I'll say I'm disappointed as I really wanted one. But do I want one more than a ZM 1/32 Ho-229 or a GWH 1:48 F-15C or any other £50 - £100+ kit currently on my wishlist. No for one simple reason. It's not worth it. 

[Albeback52]

3 hours ago, snapper_city said:

Unfortunately for them, you, me, the other 99% that I have seen on here, Facebook and other forums that wanted a C-5 in their stash. They have all said it is hugely too expensive and they will not be buying one. Again I'll say I'm disappointed as I really wanted one. But do I want one more than a ZM 1/32 Ho-229 or a GWH 1:48 F-15C or any other £50 - £100+ kit currently on my wishlist. No for one simple reason. It's not worth it. 

With you on that. I can live without a C-5 much as I would like it. This is going to be a massive flop and,I would bet that the C-5M never sees the light of day

[Branky]

You can safely bet that the C5M will not see the daylight. Even a fool does not burn his fingers on the same fire twice. Also the reason why Revell never released that planned Hunter T7 in 1/32, the bad sales of the FGA9 which could not be made good by the mediocre sales of the F6 killed off the T7 project. And Revell thought they would pleasure the modellers :-)

[Albeback52]

1 hour ago, Branky said:

You can safely bet that the C5M will not see the daylight. Even a fool does not burn his fingers on the same fire twice. Also the reason why Revell never released that planned Hunter T7 in 1/32, the bad sales of the FGA9 which could not be made good by the mediocre sales of the F6 killed off the T7 project. And Revell thought they would pleasure the modellers :-)

Strange the Hunter didn't prove popular. Certainly could not have been cost.  I think though that in this case  very poor sales of the C-5B will not be through lack of interest but entirely down to the ridiculous price of the kit.

 

Allan

Edited August 25, 2017 by Albeback52

[gavingav1]

11 hours ago, Albeback52 said:

Strange the Hunter didn't prove popular. Certainly could not have been cost.  I think though that in this case  very poor sales of the C-5B will not be through lack of interest but entirely down to the ridiculous price of the kit.

 

Allan

Possibly due to size, the hunter is a big girl is 32nd, i passed over buying one when they were going at £14.99 with freepost on ebay  purely down to the fact that it was too big, they should have done it in 48th really .

[Albeback52]

4 hours ago, gavingav said:

Possibly due to size, the hunter is a big girl is 32nd, i passed over buying one when they were going at £14.99 with freepost on ebay  purely down to the fact that it was too big, they should have done it in 48th really .

Revell actually re-issued the Hunter FGA 9 a couple of years back - my partner (lovely girl!) bought me one as a crimbo prezzie!!. The original F6 kit is pretty hard to get hold of though. Personally, I prefer the larger scale to really do this most beautiful jet fighter ever built proper justice!!. You could well be right though.  Wonderland in Edinburgh now have the Galaxy available to pre order at £119.99. Guess I won't be getting killed in the rush!

 

Allan

[IanHx]

On 09/08/2017 at 10:31 AM, T7 Models said:

I think you are spot on. If you are going to set a retail price of £100+ it needs to be a subject that will tempt enough people, and I just don't think the Galaxy will. Not among the modelling fraternity, for which 1/144 military transports are still a niche interest. Most 1/144 large aircraft fans tend to be dyed-in-the-wall civvie airliner buffs, for which the C-5 will not quite fit in.

 

Outside of dedicated modellers the only people who will look to spend that sort of money are those wanting to build what I call a vanity project. They are the sort of person who probably hasn't built a kit since they were twelve, but suddenly feel the need to reproduce a subject they often have a connection with, or particularly like. They will buy the kit, which has to be the bigger the better, all the paints, tools, etc, and probably get as far as stage 2 on the instructions before losing enthusiasm. The kits they buy are things such as Tamiya Lancasters, 1/24 RAF fighters, 1/350 HMS Hood or KGV... you get the idea. Not, sadly, a C-5 Galaxy.

 

I think it is a kit that will struggle to find a market.

I don't think the subject matter per se is problematic - for example I mainly do jet fighters yet somehow Revell's C-17 and A-400M have ended up in my stash - however it's priced so far above 'impulse purchase' territory it will struggle to find buyers.

 

My general rule of thumb is:

Up to £20 = impulse purchase

£21 - £30 = carefully thought about purchase

£31 - £50 = a lot of consideration and only if no cheaper alternative

Above £50 = no purchase

 

 

Scale doesn't come into it, simply the amount of plastic. I'd expect something the size of a 1:72 Valiant to cost around £40, so unless a 1:144 C-5 when built is around 3 times the size , I would not expect it to be 3 times the price. If you're trying to tempt customers, it's about perceived value and not just what the market will bear.

 

I really hope this kit doesn't turn out to be Roden's equivalent of Ford's Edsel....

[Albeback52]

2 hours ago, IanHx said:

I don't think the subject matter per se is problematic - for example I mainly do jet fighters yet somehow Revell's C-17 and A-400M have ended up in my stash - however it's priced so far above 'impulse purchase' territory it will struggle to find buyers.

 

My general rule of thumb is:

Up to £20 = impulse purchase

£21 - £30 = carefully thought about purchase

£31 - £50 = a lot of consideration and only if no cheaper alternative

Above £50 = no purchase

 

 

Scale doesn't come into it, simply the amount of plastic. I'd expect something the size of a 1:72 Valiant to cost around £40, so unless a 1:144 C-5 when built is around 3 times the size , I would not expect it to be 3 times the price. If you're trying to tempt customers, it's about perceived value and not just what the market will bear.

 

I really hope this kit doesn't turn out to be Roden's equivalent of Ford's Edsel....

Nicely put!!. I actually build anything that takes my fancy. Right now I'm working on an Airfix Saturn V rocket and a Revell 1/48 Tornado GR4! If we are going to use amount of plastic/size of model as a factor then I could buy two Airfix Victors and still have £12 change out of £120. Or, I could buy two Revell F/A-18E 1/32 kits for just £5.99 more than a Roden C-5 (using Wonderland's prices). I think perceived value is very important albeit very subjective and very much in the eye of the beholder. I totally accept and understand that the Roden bean counters will have set a retail price calculated to cover their costs and (hopefully) return a profit.  However, as always, the customer has the final say and, if the customer decides that carefully calculated and logically determined retail price is too high then all these kits will turn into nothing more than expensive, dust gathering shelf blockers. I have a feeling that in a few months time, prices will be slashed as retailers desperately try to offload stock they cannot otherwise shift. They'll make a loss of course but, any sale is surely better than no sale at all? At least they'll get something back. On another transport related note, it will be interesting to see how the forthcoming Kinetic 1/72 C-17 fares sales wise.

 

Allan

Edited August 26, 2017 by Albeback52

[snapper_city]

It's the crazy more than 50% discount that I'll be looking out for. Will it happen, who knows but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I can't see retailers selling it for anything less than £70 thought. Still almost twice what I think it's worth. 

[Albeback52]

43 minutes ago, snapper_city said:

It's the crazy more than 50% discount that I'll be looking out for. Will it happen, who knows but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I can't see retailers selling it for anything less than £70 thought. Still almost twice what I think it's worth. 

I wouldn't pay more than £35-£40 for this.If it had included features like a detailed interior with open front/ rear loading ramps I might have paid a bit more. For the moment though,I will do without

 

 

Allan

[snapper_city]

Good luck to those willing to part actual money for this.  I'm looking forward to seeing one built, maybe, sometime. Seeing as I have only seen one C-141 built ever I could be waiting a long time.

 

[LeVi Tophatter]

7 hours ago, Albeback52 said:

I wouldn't pay more than £35-£40 for this.If it had included features like a detailed interior with open front/ rear loading ramps I might have paid a bit more. For the moment though,I will do without

 

 

Allan

You can still get Revell's AN-124 for around £24.99 and that kit has a really good interior for the scale and is a similar size to the C-5 Galaxy. Just my musings, any more than £30 or so for an 1/144 heavy lifter is pushing it, unless it's a B-36 'Peacemaker'...

[gavingav1]

12 hours ago, IanHx said:

 

 

My general rule of thumb is:

Up to £20 = impulse purchase

£21 - £30 = carefully thought about purchase

£31 - £50 = a lot of consideration and only if no cheaper alternative

Above £50 = no purchase

 

 

Thats just the same as my kit buying mindset, only i did snap and relent and get a 22" mpc space 1999 eagle and i must say it completely changed my life

[Gary C]

It seems to be selling on ebay. I've just bought one, £91 all in from Poland. Given that people were paying £80+ for the Revell/Otaki kit it's not a bad deal for a modern kit with dropped flaps and slats. I'm just pleased someones finally done one.  If it checks out okay I'll be picking up another 3 or 4 at least, depending on whats on the Caracal sheets. 

[Albeback52]

9 hours ago, LeVi Tophatter said:

You can still get Revell's AN-124 for around £24.99 and that kit has a really good interior for the scale and is a similar size to the C-5 Galaxy. Just my musings, any more than £30 or so for an 1/144 heavy lifter is pushing it, unless it's a B-36 'Peacemaker'...

My thoughts exactly especially when you consider the lack of detail on the C-5 kit. Admittedly, there are valid reasons as to why the price of the Revell kit was pitched so low but, that is scarcely the point. The Roden C-5 kit simply isn't worth the money - not by a long chalk.

 

Allan

 

[Homebee]

Sprues

Source: https://hobbyterra.com/product/lockheed-c-5b-galaxy-roden-330.html

 

V.P.

[snapper_city]

I'm still really struggling to see how this is nearly twice the price of the 1:48 GWH F-15C I picked up the other day. The F-15 is an expensive kit but I'll let that go as it's a good scale and the kit looks exquisite. Dont get me wrong I love Roden, the subjects and the kits they make but they are all a bit rough around the edges. Well at least all the ones I have in the stash. I simply can't see that they have became a triple 'A' manufacturer overnight. Even if this were the case it would still not be worth the full RRP.