Specific X-Craft detail needed

[general melchett]

Hi guys, stand easy, I'm currently gathering as much info as I can on X-Craft but am in a bit of a quandry when it comes to the flood hole pattern on the dive-planes and rudders, (for some reason Merit show these as stubs rather than holes but that's not really a problem). The image below that Chris (Whitestar12) posted of an X-5 class in production along with a few screen grab close ups I've taken of XE-8 when she was used in 'Above Us the Waves', (I know she was a longer XE class boat but was the rear end any different ?), certainly shows a hole pattern quite different from that on the Merit kit so I was just wondering if anyone had anything more substantive so an accurate interpretation can be made. This is a great image as it shows that the edges of these surfaces were rounded not squared off as depicted on the kit, the enlarged central hole and mechanism in the dive plane,  the row of flood holes along the base of the upper vertical fin and the the steel plates which were fitted to the leading edges of each rudder, outboard of the actuator arms and in line with the prop blades presumably to avoid damage. There's a fair few things that need doing to the Merit kit to make it accurate but overall it's a pretty decent effort.

 

 

 

Cheers 

 

Melchie.

[Bugle07]

Evening General Sir! 

 

This is the best that I can see in the IWM site, but searching there is always hit and miss.

 

Www.heiszwolf.com has a set of plan for the x craft, may help in the placings? Supposed to be X5-X10?

 

There's also some photos of the restored X24 and the raised shell of XE8 at www.maritime quest.com.

 

May shed a bit of light? 

 

Geoff 

 

 

[whitestar12chris]

General heres some photos of X-24 at Gosport, the best descriptive text book is Underwater Warriors by Paul Kemp

There where variations in each batch of X-craft, the Merit Kit is ok for the first two batches X-5 to X-10 & X-20 to X-25, then theres different lengths and widths along with a faired in front top section.

 

A rear shot of the later HMS Stickleback, note this is the incorrectly restored dive planes and rudder assembly which is out by 90 degrees (covered in another thread), note the correct one in the foreground and no one questioned it at the IWM.

 

Heres my thread on building the Merit X-craft

 

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234995125-royal-navy-x-craft-x-5-to-x-10-operation-source-sink-the-tirpitz-finished/

 

All the best Chris

[general melchett]

Thanks chaps, appreciate the replies,

 

Geoff that's a great shot, the hole pattern on the rudders seems a lot closer to Merits version. Thanks for the heads up on the Heizswolf  site, I'll see what I can find there, would be really nice to come across some original drawings.

 

Chris, that image seems to confirm that the later craft hole pattern was quite different from the earlier craft which is basically what I wanted to know, seems Merit's rudder flood hole pattern is correct but the dive plane ones fictitious, easily dealt with. 

I just ordered a second hand copy of Underwater Warriors from Amazon for the princely sum of £2.80 so look forward to looking through that when it arrives. I noticed the strange arrangement on Stickleback some while ago, odd that they would make such a mistake but I suppose it depends on what sources they used at the time. It's interesting to see just how many mods were made to these fascinating craft throughout their  development...think I'll need to delve a bit deeper.

 

Thanks for the link to your build thread, good stuff..... 

 

Cheers folks

 

Melchie RN

[general melchett]

Hi again, another enquiry about the colour scheme of these craft. I've read the post about the grey colour answered by Chris and have the Underwater Warriors book by Paul Kemp but am still wondering about the correct colour pattern. I agree that the image showing an X-Craft (X-5 to X-10) out of water and wearing what appears to be a black underside with Dark Admiralty Grey upper surfaces, (and black side-cargo) but can't see any evidence of black vertical upper sides on this or any other photos. Looks to me as if this craft may be being prepared for repainting in the anti-magnetic paint going by the splotches of dark paint, (protective?) on the hull sides. It appears that there is a darker (black?) section further back which seems to tie in with Geoffs IWM image above. Kemps description of the scheme is very basic just mentioning grey sides and black upper surfaces, (decking areas I take it) but no mention of black upper side surfaces. The photo of Robbie Robertson standing on the deck of X-24 certainly looks like the upper sides were grey and the horizontal deck area could well be black. All a bit confusing, all we need is a decent colour photograph....

 

If anyone knows anything more I'd be very grateful,

 

Cheers

 

Melchie...

[whitestar12chris]

Hi Melchie, underwater warriors describes the scheme as Black upper surfaces and admiralty grey lower surfaces,hence the scheme i used for my x-craft. as mentioned the later X-craft were all over black.

 

This photo was the clincher for me bearing in mind how black appears in sunlight in black and white photos. The photo is of one of x-craft prior to being launched on the Tirpitz mission.

 

 

Of note this is also the same scheme sported by T class submarines as can be seen in some photos with the exception of those deployed to the far east or to the med.

The only colour ww2 photo i have in my possession is of HMS Graph (ex u570) alongside HMS Thrasher who is all black on the upper surfaces.

 

The reason for the black on upper surfaces was to reduce visibility when on the surface at night, recharging batteries etc. Which was doubly important for the X-craft in the norwegian fjords.

 

Heres an example of HMS explorer who was all over black.

 

 

Hope this helps

 

all the best Chris

[general melchett]

Hi Chris,

 

Thanks for that, I have a lot of images now but still seem as confused as ever. These photos seem to show something different again, the first appears to show the black demarcation line running along the forward hull bulge, (pretty much as Brengun have there's depicted in the painting guide) though of course this could be down to the light/shadow/printing, etc, etc.

 

 

 

Whereas these of X25 show the upper sides to be light, definitely a dark, (black?) side cargo, of course as these photos were taken in 1944 this may be one of the pair painted in the Overlord yellow ochre/Hooker's Green scheme..... 

 

Seems like the censor has airbrushed out the air induction mast...

 

 

Here the decking appears black but light coloured side-cargo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And this one shows no signs of any demarcation lines at all. 'looks to be' an overall grey.

 

 

 

What do you think ? trouble is I'm a stickler for getting it right....

 

 

Cheers

 

Melchie...

Edited June 24, 2017 by general melchett

[whitestar12chris]

Hi Melchie, first photo is not of X25 but one of the XT class, i have the same photo in my reference book Royal Navy submarines 1901 to present day by Maurice Cocker

 

The next two photos are of one of X5-X10, the subtle difference is the main periscope mount.

 

X5 to X10 had a base triangular fairing, X20 to X25 had no fairing just the top of the periscope tube visible with the anti fouling guides.

 

Again ref Underwater warriors, they tried mountbatten pink on the X-craft as an early paint scheme, the two craft used for the D-day landings had a camo scheme similar to an aircraft wing of the raf.

 

X24 is in the submarine at gosport and is all over black as was all craft from X20 onwards including XT's XE's and the  later X craft hms stickleback etc

 

all the best Chris

[general melchett]

Thanks Chris,

 

Sorry, probably the way the captions read but I know the first shot was of a shorter XT just showing the possible paint line. My mistake about the next few, as you say they aren't X25, not sure why I thought they were but the caption for the one showing the three standing crewmen reads X-Craft 25, Rothsay, 18th April, 1944 just wondering what colour the sides were in, it doesn't look black though the upper surfaces do. I noticed the difference with the triangular periscope fairing, in fact I've altered mine to portray the later style so will go for X24 or 25. Interesting that all X-Craft from X20 on were overall black, must look for more info on that.

 

Cheers

 

Melchie

[Radpoe Spitfire]

I can't help you with much info on X-craft General- other than I'm of  the understanding  that X24 was the one built by Marshall of Gainsborough and tested of the Trent wharf.

 

If I'm correct, that was almost in your doorstep 😆 otherwise I've got duff gen.

 

Either way-happy building.