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RAF Sky- why?


Marvel Onkey

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This isn't a question about model paint matches for Sky, nor about duck egg blue and duck egg green- it's simpler than that (or perhaps not).

 

Why in the early war did the RAF think the pale yellow-green colour of 'Sky' was the best camouflage colour to blend in with the real sky? 

 

I can't think I've ever seen the real sky be that colour, usually blue or grey, occasionally pink at sunset or sunrise, but not yellowish green.

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Allegedly an RAF/government official watched a pale green painted Blenheim take off and quickly disappear to view as it flew away. He put forward to Farnborough what he saw and a suggestion that a pale green colour could be used as an air-camouflage colour. The camouflage researchers worked on it and came up with a pale yellow green.

We have very clear skies now but not too long ago our atmosphere was full of nasty stuff, which did actually turn the air a sickly yellow-green. I remember not so long ago I could tell, when I was driving, that I was getting near to Belfast due to the colour of the air/sky over it. For the last 10/15 years the sky over Belfast has been a lot cleaner and its only late at night or when there has been a period of warm and still air can I see that smog colour.

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My understanding is that this was a pre war experimental colour that was invented by Sidney Cotton as a Camotint. 

 

I'm sure Nick Milman will be around soon to give the definitive answer.

 

Trevor

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I think it has less to do with the actual colour itself and rather the way it reflects light under various sky conditions.  Also bear in mind it was not designed to hide an aircraft at close quarters but rather to make it less visible at a distance.  To be honest, there isn't much difference between pale grey, pale blue and pale green when viewed from a distance, and under certain conditions one can easily mistake the shades.  I recall seeing an F4J at Finningly back in the late '80s which, although known to be painted in a grey shade, had a very yellow-green cast caused by the cloudy weather conditions at the time. 

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Every air force has a different colour for their undersides, all with reasonable explainations.

 

Maybe it's my suspicious nature but I believe it has more to do with what paint manufacturer has more friends in high places :whistle:

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Sky was a good compromise colour for low level europe,  later, with the switch to higher level work Medium Sea Grey was the replacement, as Sky often appeared white at higher levels.

As stated, the colour came  from the work of Sidney Cotton and the PR unit.

 

Very high level colours were PRU Blue (another colour from the PR units)  and Deep  Sky.

 

Sky was not acceptable in the Middle East, and various blues were used, settling on Azure Blue.

 

The Fleet Air Arm used Sky for most of the war.

 

all illustrated below in RAF paint colour chart

bstablegb_1.JPG

Sky grey was used by the FAA, and Sky Blue and Light Med Blue in the Middle East.

 

more information on various  colours, and uses are in the Ducimus guides, handily scanned here

http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Profiles/Camoflage-Markings

 

One not listed is PRU Mauve, for low  level work, and PRU Pink, which was used by some low level FR Spitfires

3269411347_cb1aeac6a9_o.jpg

 

Night was used for night use.... (it's not black) 

 

 

 

Edited by Troy Smith
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Hi Marvel,

 

I can only guess about the RAF's use of that greenish Sky during WWII, but the earliest reported use of a pale green grey camouflage came from the Ministry of Munitions in September 1918.  A multi-toned camouflage was tested on a Salamander and on a Pup: the sides and undersides were painted a "light green grey" comprising White, "Chrome," Brunswick Green, and Indian Red.  The green grey also replaced the white in the upper wing insignia.

 

Although the report mentions advantages in shadow reduction, all of the test observations were made from several thousand feet above.

 

The advent of Sky doesn't seem to have a direct descent from the 1918 tests, but folks with a much better access to the British sources will certainly know a lot more than I.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

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What made FAA still use sky on their aircraft as on Sea Fury and Wyvern when the canadians painted their Sea Fury "grey" instead of "sky"?

/André

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The RCN simply took Sea Fury and Firefly deliveries in the production colours, that is, those in use by the Royal Navy at the time.  The Royal Navy schemes didn't last more than a couple of years and the change to the grey scheme suited Canadian conditions.  Don't confuse the Commonwealth connection with a subsidiary relationship.

 

The same scheme was applied to US-sourced equipment such as Avengers and to Canadian-built Trackers and Sea Kings too.

Edited by RJP
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11 hours ago, Max Headroom said:

My understanding is that this was a pre war experimental colour that was invented by Sidney Cotton as a Camotint. 

 

 

It was and Camotint and Sky were the same colour. I have tried to attach a document to the Bristol Aeroplane Company regarding the colours for the Blenheim, dated 20/4/40 which states:

 

"As regards colour the pale blue-green which has been called Camotint is now defined as standard Sky, and this description should be given in your schedule."

 

But I've been defeated :)

 

 

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The story goes that Cotton was watching the departure of the Maharajah of Jodphur from Heston in his Lockheed 12A, which was painted a pale duck egg greenish blue colour, and noticed that it disappeared from view shortly after take off. He subsequently requested a similar coloured paint from the Titanine Dope Company, which he registered as 'Camotint'. This eventually became designated Sky. How true the story is I have no idea, but it's a good yarn! From memory a version of the story appears in 'Aviator Extraordinary' as told to Ralph Barker.

Edited by Stonar
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9 hours ago, RJP said:

The RCN simply took Sea Fury and Firefly deliveries in the production colours, that is, those in use by the Royal Navy at the time.  The Royal Navy schemes didn't last more than a couple of years and the change to the grey scheme suited Canadian conditions.  Don't confuse the Commonwealth connection with a subsidiary relationship.

 

 

I'm not sure this is strictly true in that the RCN did not "simply take" Sea Furies in the then current FAA colours: ISTR from an earlier posting on this site, possibly from Edgar, that there were acrimonious exchanges between the RCN and Hawkers because the RCN had specified the light grey shade and Hawkers persisted in sending them ones with Sky undersides.  Which would explain why the Sky didn't last for more than a couple of years and reinforces your point about the Commonwealth connection not equating to a subsidiary relationship. 

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I gather there was some problem about the Canadian change from Sky to Medium Sea Grey because the Canadians were somewhat less than precise about the name.

 

It is fair to point out that Sky was not simply a pale yellowish green (as presented by some model paints) but, as the common name says, a duck egg blue.  This does contain some blue and can appear more so to some people.

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The Air Ministry, trying to clear up some of the confusion following the colour's introduction, stated that it might be described as "Duck Egg Bluish Green". Original capitals, original underline.

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Whatever the name or tone, British built Beaufighters retained that shade for a long time in the north of Australia and near Pacific region as is worked well in the low altitude role. Light in the surface haze. 

Grant

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