MH-53 in compass call camo as one on Ef-111

[Julien]

I asked the historian for the 67th SOS here in the UK and he says that the ones based in the UK which probably were the ones TDY to Aviano went straight from Euro 1 to the overall Grey scheme, if this helps.

[ElectroSoldier]

11 minutes ago, Julien said:

I asked the historian for the 67th SOS here in the UK and he says that the ones based in the UK which probably were the ones TDY to Aviano went straight from Euro 1 to the overall Grey scheme, if this helps.

They could be over all Gunship grey or ADC grey but never "Grey" scheme grey  

 

But being serious for a moment.

Yeah that was the late 80s into the 90s. 
I think if they wore the scheme he is talking about then it would have been from the late 70s into the mid 80s because by the mid 80s they were all wearing Euro1.

[Julien]

I also spoke to a friend of mine who worked on them while in the USAF, he said the prototype used a two tone scheme but it was never used operationally. 

[TheyJammedKenny!]

It's funny that people are referring to a "Compass Call" scheme.  I never heard of such a thing, and I worked directly with the EC-130H platform!  I remember being on deployment many years ago, and an RAF officer asked me what color our aircraft were painted.  I think I said: "looks like grey to me."  Honestly I had no idea, and I was a model builder!  Originally it was a kind of two-tone, but time in the sun at D-M had long before softened it to a monotone.

[ElectroSoldier]

2 hours ago, TheyJammedKenny! said:

It's funny that people are referring to a "Compass Call" scheme.  I never heard of such a thing, and I worked directly with the EC-130H platform!  I remember being on deployment many years ago, and an RAF officer asked me what color our aircraft were painted.  I think I said: "looks like grey to me."  Honestly I had no idea, and I was a model builder!  Originally it was a kind of two-tone, but time in the sun at D-M had long before softened it to a monotone.

I thought the same thing as you. Compass call isnt the name of any scheme I know of, unless people named the scheme after the EC-130H that wore it. But then so did the EC-130E Rivet Rider and EF-111A Raven.

 

I cant seem to find any photos of the EC-130H on google, but its no surprise as she was rather shy but this is the EC-130E Rivet Rider wearing the "Grey" scheme

 

As far as I know there is only one model paint manufacturer that makes that light grey and that is Life Color UA 743 Dirt Road.

Its the only accurate representation of the colour Ive ever been able to find to date.

 

When you read the OP then my first thought was the scheme discussed here.
The problem is the OP insists it was an MH-53J.
HH-53C Hickman AFB

Edited December 12, 2022 by ElectroSoldier

[Des]

The idea of a two tone grey Super Jolly camouflage trial does vaguely ring a bell , seem to think it might have been illustrated in the US Military Aviation column that Alan W. Hall used to run in the original Aviation News at the same time as this C-141 trial  in the late 1970s/early 1980s or on the other hand maybe not. 

 

 

[Julien]

Info from my friend who worked on these

 

Quote

I have seen USMC H-53s in a similar scheme to what you describe, but never USAF. Our MH-54J PAVE LOW IIIs were delivered in European 1 wrap-around, and when they got the MH-53M PAVE LOW IV upgrades the scheme changed to overall grey. We never changed colours for either of the Gulf Wars or Afghanistan. Some of the Hurlburt Field 20th SOS PAVEs were painted a temporary desert scheme for Desert Storm, but this was the only deviation from the norm that I am aware of. I can say for 100 percent certain that none of the 21st SOS / 352d SOG PAVEs ever had a scheme which you describe.

 

66-14433 based at Kirtland AFB was painted in a two tone scheme as a trial but not like the compass call 130s. However I cant share the photo ive been sent on this

[ElectroSoldier]

54 minutes ago, Des said:

The idea of a two tone grey Super Jolly camouflage trial does vaguely ring a bell , seem to think it might have been illustrated in the US Military Aviation column that Alan W. Hall used to run in the original Aviation News at the same time as this C-141 trial  in the late 1970s/early 1980s or on the other hand maybe not. 

 

 

Thats an interesting one as a trial. That thread mentions Mildenhall airshow. Which means I must have seen it as I never missed a single one from that time.

It makes me wonder if...

 

Im reminded now of a conversation I had on another forum about the A-10 camo schemes, there was a light grey scheme I couldnt decide on but I was told was the later Ghost grey scheme everybody knows but I left it as I wasnt so sure.

That would have been the early 80s too.

Edited December 12, 2022 by ElectroSoldier

[Des]

17 minutes ago, ElectroSoldier said:

Im reminded now of a conversation I had on another forum about the A-10 camo schemes, there was a light grey scheme I couldnt decide on but I was told was the later Ghost grey scheme everybody knows but I left it as I wasnt so sure.

That would have been the early 80s too.

 

I am afraid that it all tends to run together these days but a much lighter two-tone grey colour scheme among several trialled on the A-10 , as well as two tone grey schemes on a few USAF F-4 and C-130 (as well as desert schemes on the later well before the 1991 Gulf war) all come to mind but at this distance I cannot recall if they were all around the same time or spread over a longer period.     There was a time when I would be able to recall exactly where I had seen an image right down to the cover photo of the publication and be able to put my hand right on it but now I count myself lucky to even remember that I might have seen it.

[Giorgio N]

1 hour ago, ElectroSoldier said:

Thats an interesting one as a trial. That thread mentions Mildenhall airshow. Which means I must have seen it as I never missed a single one from that time.

It makes me wonder if...

 

Im reminded now of a conversation I had on another forum about the A-10 camo schemes, there was a light grey scheme I couldnt decide on but I was told was the later Ghost grey scheme everybody knows but I left it as I wasnt so sure.

That would have been the early 80s too.

 

The original A-10 production colour scheme was indeed with two greys, before being changed to the Europe 1 scheme. Or better, there were a number of grey schemes as the pattern changed during production- The "final" early grey scheme was like this one:

 

https://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/001554124.html

 

Notice how it is different from the later grey scheme

[Davide Calzolari]

little add myabe not recognized from who read: the helo i say  was nearly for sure managed  USAF-E (acronyme nowdays forgotten but was the spin off european of usaf  )

[ElectroSoldier]

1 hour ago, Giorgio N said:

 

The original A-10 production colour scheme was indeed with two greys, before being changed to the Europe 1 scheme. Or better, there were a number of grey schemes as the pattern changed during production- The "final" early grey scheme was like this one:

 

https://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/001554124.html

 

Notice how it is different from the later grey scheme

 

Yeah.
You see I think that that is the scheme we are talking about. Because I dont think it was late at all.

I think that is the early grey scheme, and it was then changed to Euro1.

I think the early grey scheme the A-10 had wore the US Air Force legend on the nose and then it took on this grey scheme before they decided against it and went en mass with Euro1.

Which would in a way fit in with the story that goes with that C-141. And might even go with the HH-53H/MH-53H/MH-53J.

 

The more I think about it the more the OP could be right.

I think now that there were many types that had it however because it was for only a short period in the late 70s into the early 80s and then Euro1 was decided on very soon after there are few if any photos.

 

My "problem" with it is many of the early HH-53Cs that became the HH-53H wore the Euro1 scheme from conversion.

 

However there is this HH-53H Pave Low III that had the now synonymous radome that was grey

 

There is also this, which is also an HH-53H Pave Low III

https://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Air-Force/Sikorsky-HH-53H-Pave-Low-III-S-65A/2021288/L

https://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/airliners/8/8/2/2021288.jpg?v=v40

 

 

8 minutes ago, Davide Calzolari said:

little add myabe not recognized from who read: the helo i say  was nearly for sure managed  USAF-E (acronyme nowdays forgotten but was the spin off european of usaf  )

USAF-E or United States Air Forces in Europe was not a spin off of the USAF, it was a branch of it, Major Command to use its correct term, it was responsible for all USAF assets based in the European theatre of operations.

[Giorgio N]

20 minutes ago, ElectroSoldier said:

 

Yeah.
You see I think that that is the scheme we are talking about. Because I dont think it was late at all.

I think that is the early grey scheme, and it was then changed to Euro1.

I think the early grey scheme the A-10 had wore the US Air Force legend on the nose and then it took on this grey scheme before they decided against it and went en mass with Euro1.

Which would in a way fit in with the story that goes with that C-141. And might even go with the HH-53H/MH-53H/MH-53J.

 

The more I think about it the more the OP could be right.

I think now that there were many types that had it however because it was for only a short period in the late 70s into the early 80s and then Euro1 was decided on very soon after there are few if any photos.

 

My "problem" with it is many of the early HH-53Cs that became the HH-53H wore the Euro1 scheme from conversion.

 

However there is this HH-53H Pave Low III that had the now synonymous radome that was grey

 

There is also this, which is also an HH-53H Pave Low III

https://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Air-Force/Sikorsky-HH-53H-Pave-Low-III-S-65A/2021288/L

https://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/airliners/8/8/2/2021288.jpg?v=v40

 

 

USAF-E or United States Air Forces in Europe was not a spin off of the USAF, it was a branch of it, Major Command to use its correct term, it was responsible for all USAF assets based in the European theatre of operations.

 

The one I posted sure is the early scheme, that picture was taken in 1979.

This early scheme used different paints from the current scheme, that I don't think made it in the FS catalogue. During the tests they were known by their reflectance in percentage.

 

However I would not mix the A-10 with other types, both fixed and rotary wings... The camouflage scheme for the A-10 was the result of a wide number of tests, so much that most prototype and pre-production aircraft wore a number of different schemes, some of which differed only in pattern while others used different colours. The USAF finally settled for a scheme with 2 greys and then finalized the pattern, that was the one seen in the picture I posted... and then changed their mind by introducing the Europe 1 scheme, itself the result of a number of tests.

Something similar, to a smaller extent, happened with the F-16 in roughly the same timeframe, with aircraft from the preproduction batch all sporting different schemes before the USAF settled on the final one.

Other types were involved in tests, there were for example a number of Phantoms in various grey schemes and grey schemes were indeed tested on cargo types, These however were all test schemes, none of them made it to officialdom in the way the A-10 scheme did.

Speaking of cargo types and the C-141 in particular, you are probably thinking of this one, that is typical of the aircraft involved in trying new schemes in the late '70s/early '80s

 

 

 

 

[Julien]

 

Early Pave, photo from an old KOKU-FAN

[ElectroSoldier]

7 hours ago, Julien said:

 

Early Pave, photo from an old KOKU-FAN

I think...
With those bracing bars, this is the HH-53B that was converted into the YHH-53H (pictured). Basically making this the very first Pave Low (Pave Low I).

Eight HH-53Cs were then converted to carry the same equipment and all were then designated HH-53H Pave Low II

A few years later there was an upgrade program called Constant Green, after that they were called the MH-53H

[Julien]

Yes this was the first Pave, was fitted  with an an operators station in the cabin to monitor the equipment (none of the production PAVES had that).

[ElectroSoldier]

One of the things which has amazed me over the years is that no company has made a conversion for the sponson bars as fitted to the HH-53B.

Especially considering how the HH-53B was the model used to create the Pave Low upgrades.

 

Its not easy to get any accurate dimensions of the hump over the sponsons and the size and position of the bars

[e8n2]

On 12/12/2022 at 1:49 AM, ElectroSoldier said:

When you read the OP then my first thought was the scheme discussed here.

The problem is the OP insists it was an MH-53J.
HH-53C Hickman AFB

That aircraft was also in 16473 with a white cap, the standard aircraft scheme for most USAF aircraft per 1-1-4.

Later,

Dave