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Two Breguet 19 from a single Hit-kit kit ( now Flickr!)


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Hi

From some time I was thinking on doing finally the Hit-Kit Breguet XIX, which is in may stash from 1995. This is a Polish short-run kit with provision for four different engine version (Elizade W or three V types, no radial ones).

bre 19 DSC04328

If you have not heard on this kit the box looks like that:

Boxart Breguet 19 HK002 Hit Kit

 

However an idea came to me - why do one model, perhaps I can do two (or even three) if I will copy some parts in resin. Let's try just two. I will try to make a CASA-Breguet 19  from Spanish Civil War (a Nationalist side) with Elizade/Lorrain W-type engine and a RYAF Breguet 19.8 with Wright Cyclone radial one. This model exists by Omega by I will try to do a scratch one based on Hit Kit copied parts. Version 19.8 has different wings, with rounded tips, so I started from wings.

 

First the wing for Spanish one. The wing provided by Hit-Kit is too flat from top. So I tried to make it a bit more thicker. It appeard  a bit more difficult than I thought, since the plastic of model is very hard.

How I started. The parts of upper wing looks like that:

bre 19 DSC04329

Lower surface completly flat, without ribs. Upper not curved along chord.

bre 19 DSC04330

Since the plastic is really hard I start to cut back sides

bre 19 DSC04331

Add some kind of spar

bre 19 DSC04332

I tried to curve it but not very successfully

bre 19 DSC04333

The wing for Breguet 19.8 (with rounded tips) I decided to do from scratch - namely based on 1:48 RWD-8 wing (remains of a kit glued by my son at age of 7 years or less)

bre 19 DSC04425

After some cutting, glueing, sanding, using filler, sanding, etc...- wings looks this way:

breg DSC05314

 

 

As you see the "19.8" has no ribs yet.

Lower wings (bottom  side):

breg DSC05315

Bottoms sides need a lot of sanding still.

The lower wing of "19.8" (rounded tips again) I will do from Polikarpov Po 2 - old Russian kit which I decided to shift to spar parts set.

breg DSC05316

 

The fuselage

breg DSC05317

Lower is resin copy

 

To be continue

Jerzy-Wojtek

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi,

Some progress was achieved today. 

Frames to put inside

 

More details will be there of course.

 

Lower part of wings, after sanding (wet, paper 600, pressed by fingers, along the chord)

 

Some corrections still needed, but generaly I am satisfied.

 

Two fuselages. Below is my resin copy. I decided to use resin copy in CASA-Br 19 from SCW - since in this model I have to change fuselage surface on large part. The CASA Br 19 had more fabric on sides than original Breguet.

I add Tamiya  filler and then sanded taxtile parts on both, just to have chance of obtaining the same kind of surface on both:

 

Then I glued thin sprus, add again Tamiya filler and sprad them along structure using fingers

 

EDIT - I perhaps lost those photos...

 

I hope that after some sanding it will look OK

 

To be continued

Regards

Jerzy-Wojtek

 

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On the left side nose some deteils were not reproduced and the silicon form is wrong. So I put spme silicon on nose from left side and will have to wait few days sto get it stiff. 

Today I was working on fuselage surface in CASA-Breguet, which is different from original French. I worked also on the fin and rudder. Please note the new position of the piece with steps (kind of ledder)

breg 19 DSC05345

 

The fin and rudder in Breg 19.8 (bottom) with Wright Cyclone is bigger. This is the lower of two above.

The tailplate  resing copy is not very good, some big holes apeard. I filled them with epoxy filler

breg 19 DSC05346

 

That it for today

Comments welcome

Regards

J-W 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi J-W

I am watching this one with interst.  I too have this in the stash along with their Potez 25.

I long for a modern issue of the Breguet 19 and Potez 25 in injection molded plastic, plus their is so many decal options for them too.

Good luck with this build.

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It's great to see you working on these J-W :).

 

Both superb subjects, they're going to look stunning.

 

I have the Omega Casa and an L&M reins one. Both look ok, but I like the look of your interior better than the ones in these kits.

 

Good luck and enjoy the build, thanks for sharing.

 

Best regards 

TonyT

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1 hour ago, Colin1967 said:

Hi J-W

I am watching this one with interst.  I too have this in the stash along with their Potez 25.

I long for a modern issue of the Breguet 19 and Potez 25 in injection molded plastic, plus their is so many decal options for them too.

Good luck with this build.

Colin, many thanks :) !

Regarding Potez XXV I have currently two Hit-kit boxes (Jupiter and TOE) and Broplan A2. TOE I will likely do from Indochina or Madagascar, Vichy. Jupiter is not decided yet - SCW or Croatia. Less probable the Polish one. The Broplan one I will try to convert into Potez 29. I am intendig to start them very soon, perhaps just after finishing Bregs. Somehow Breguet XIX and Potez XXV couples together.  

 

38 minutes ago, TonyTiger66 said:

It's great to see you working on these J-W :).

 

Both superb subjects, they're going to look stunning.

 

I have the Omega Casa and an L&M reins one. Both look ok, but I like the look of your interior better than the ones in these kits.

 

Good luck and enjoy the build, thanks for sharing.

Tony, many thanks :) !

I know about those resin ones. Omega is doing event the 19.8 variant. But I want them to be more similar between two variants. BTW - I am almost sure, that I've seen the Breguet 19.8 by Hit-kit (in Croatian livery) but in all Internet infos on Hit-kit only A2 version is shown.  I remeber this strange day somwhere in 1995 when I went to a model shop "Phantom" in Krakow on Sławkowska street (those years, now on Długa) and I was just smashed down by a set of boxes of Hit-kit Potez XXV and Bregs XIX... They were very expencieve - so there was hope that for some time they will be available, however they were so attractive that I realize that I had to make a choice instatly. I knew that they will spread amoung Krakow's modellers withing hours only, despite high prices...Anyway - I would like to have one more Breguet. To do with Hispano engine. But there is still hope for another kit.

Cheers

J-W

 

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Hi

I've got some progress on fuselages, especially in "furtuniring" insides of both Breguet XIXs.

 

breg DSC05762

 

The pilot seat in kit exists in two form: as PE part or as styrene. I useds both, drilling openings in a styrene one:

breg DSC05761Breg DSC05760

 

The difference in fuselage fabric cover between CASA-Breguet (front) and Breguet 19.8 (back) is visible here:

 

breg DSC05764breg DSC05763

Also the 19.8 has taller fin. At least it is clear from some photos which I heave.

The fuselages are not finish yet, definitely

To be continued

Cheers

Jerzy-Wojtek

 

 

 

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Nice work J-W :thumbsup2: 
 

The retexturing of the fuselage sides is going well. Did you use thin plastic rod for the fuselage sides on the CASA? The repositioned ladder looks good too.

Good idea to use both etch and plastic parts for the seats - they look quite real :).

Looking forward to the next instalment,

Best regards
TonyT

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Tony, many thanks

2 hours ago, TonyTiger66 said:

The retexturing of the fuselage sides is going well. Did you use thin plastic rod for the fuselage sides on the CASA? The repositioned ladder looks good too.

I glued on ultra thin (less than 0.3 mm) self-made sprues (using Tamiya low viscosity glue and then CA - since it was on resin. CA glue I spread along by fast move of finger ). Then I put Tamiya grey filler,  using fingers moving along them to spread the putty evenly and to remove excess. This filler is losing volume and its surface bacame more smooth during drying, so not too much sanding was needed then. Excessive use of fingers unabled me to do photo documentation ;) .

The immitation of metal part (like ledder) I made masking sides of it with Tamiya tape and puting again filler Tamiya between tapes. Then I sanded it (wet, paper 600) and finally removed tapes. Finally I scribed out the steps. 

I alredy mentioned four times name "Tamiya" - so partially this CASA Breguet XIX is by Tamiya :) - in some sense at least...Unfortunately - this company is not interesting in this machine so far...

Cheers

J-W

 

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As I recall those HitKit models were/are real dogs, but you seem to have been able to make them do tricks for you!  I found they were just this side of being scratch built...I am looking forward to seeing your finished work!

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John, many thanks. I hope in this build also...

One small topic - the tail of Breguet 19.8. I noticed that it is a bit different looking on some photos and profiles. It is not obvious, since Omega kit has the same (as far as I can see it on that photo taken from net:

Znalezione obrazy dla zapytania omega breguet 19.8

 

Let's the normal, three rib fin:

Znalezione obrazy dla zapytania yugoslavia  breguet 19

This is a part of photo of a Turkie Breguet with Lorrain  engine. Three ribs are clearly seen.

And below is tail of Croatian Breguet 19.8 with Cyclone engine:

Znalezione obrazy dla zapytania breguet 19.8

Five ribs... And bigger (taller and longer chord) rudder (it is confirmed by photos).

I found in net also a photo of position of MG in Breguet 19.8

Znalezione obrazy dla zapytania breguet 19.8

So it was shoting above the Towdent ring. And an interesting position of gun sight. Both I will have to make. It is clear that it is Breg 19.8 (or 19.7?) but for sure not early variants due to small struts.

 

Below is Spanish Nationalist 10.165 which is most likely my target for CASA-Breguet

Znalezione obrazy dla zapytania breguet 19 nationalist

But still I beeing temptated by some Republican schemes...

Znalezione obrazy dla zapytania breguet 19 nationalist

 

And Breguet 19.8 I will do rather in Yugoslavian scheme from 1941 than in Croatian livery. This is mostly bacause of colours. The Omege kit shows Croatian in fresh dark green (like Fiat G-50) whereas in Squadron book  on Croatian forces it is khaki like Avia BH 33 and many others oldies (inc. Potez XXV...)

Yugoslovian - like that:

Znalezione obrazy dla zapytania breguet 19 nationalist

To be continued

Regards

Jerzy-Wojtek

 

 

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By the way - is there any photo showing painting scheme of top of wing for Nationalist Breg? On photo above I guess a double black circles on bottoms but no crosses I think. On top could be some black strips as well...

I will appreciete very much any help in this

Regards

J.W.

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Hello J-W,

Unfortunately I don't have any top wing marking photos. Somewhere I have an Omega kit with nationalist markings, including top wing markings, but I don't know how accurate they would be :hmmm: ?

 

In terms of the CASA Breguet, I'm not sure if you've seen it, but just in case:

 

This is a great public domain movie of the workshop in Spain where they were made, there are great shots of the aircraft:

 

 

Best regards

TonyT

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Tony T, many thanks for the movie. Have you noticed that Breguets XIX are not CASA build but original French with Hispano Suiza engines. Look at the fuselage covers - there is long metal cover, up to endo of gunner position!

 

Today only photos of fuselage of CASA Elizalde Breg XIX A2. I was detailing engine:

BREG DSC05790

Exhaust pipes are made from spent Revell cement needle. The inlets are made of alu foil rolled on a rod and glued with CA glue.

BREG DSC05791

Propeller is rotable, bearing is made of loilipop hand.

I did some surface work on tail:

BREG DSC05792

 

BREG DSC05793BREG DSC05794

Cheers

J-W

 

 

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Hi,

The Breguet 19.8 - the Cyclone engine required more peaky front of fuselage behind it. I cut out about 1 cm from front and glued there some improvised part (based mostly of  spare one from William Bross Northrop Gamma) and some massive addition of filler

breg DSC05795

The tail needs some reshaping of surface. 

breg DSC05796breg DSC05797

 

It will be sanded of course.

 

Back to XIX a2 with Elizalde engine. I just glued in tailplane (surfce needs some improvments still) and lower wings

breg DSC05839breg DSC05840

And another shot with lower part of upper wing seen on side:

breg DSC05841

 

We have today holiday in Poland, so some time more for modelling :).

Cheers

J-W

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Hi,

Indeed, I think I did some progress today. 

1) Breguet 19.8.

Wright Cyclone - I have a my resin copy of Boeing 247 (Williams Bros) Cyclone. I added camshaft elements on the tops of each cylinder

breg 19 DSC05843

Now the diameter will fit to HawkerHart (AZ) spareTowdend ring.

Propeller - I found some elements (resin hub and plastic blads) for contr-clockwise rotating prop of desired diameter.

breg 19 DSC05844

 

All elements for engine (exhaust collector is a not-to-be-use part from AZ Breda 27)

breg 19 DSC05845

 

Wings - I glued ribs

breg 19 DSC05842

Smear Tamiya putty on surfaces

breg 19 DSC05846breg 19 DSC05847

 

And polished it (wet paper 600)

breg 19 DSC05852

still some corrections needes....

 

2. CASA Br XIX A2:

 

breg 19 DSC05853breg 19 DSC05854breg 19 DSC05855

 

 

To  be continued :)

Cheers

J-W

 

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They're both looking good J-W :thumbsup2: .

 

I especially like the way you have magpied all the parts for the engine, cowl and prop etc. for the 19.8. Great recycling of parts and it's going to look good.

 

The wing rib technique is good. I tried something similar once with Mr. Surfacer but it didn't work. I'll try the Tamiya putty instead.

 

I got Mrs. T to go into the cupboard for my Omega CASA Breguet kit, for the top wing pattern.

 

IMG_8083.jpg

 

Here it is close up:

 

IMG_8086.jpg

 

There are a couple of other schemes. But they're Republican.

 

I don't know how accurate the scheme is, but it looks feasible. 

 

I don't want to fill your thread with pictures, but I took ones of the other schemes (Republican) and the guns and mount too. If you would like the  other pics just send me a PM :).

 

I'm sorry about the poor lighting, all pictures were taken by me in my bed, it's quite dark in here :confused:!

 

Best regards

TonyT

 

 

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Tony, many thanks for the scheme! :) I appreciete your search, but I am sorry to say - this is Hispano-Suiza engine version, not the Elizalde, which I am constructing. But do not worry.  Regarding my desired 10.165 I found in net someone else model which is photographed from top. It does not have crosses but it has four black strips in the centr part of wing and double black circles as well as white tips of course. So I think it wil do that way. The painting is far away !

Best regards

J-W

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Apologies J-W, I should have spotted that :confused: .

 

You may have read it, but there's some good information in this article about Breguet 19. Also regarding your question in the other thread.

 

http://www.thegermanarmy.org/aviones/bombarderos/breguet19.html

 

I can't believe this omission, but I don't yet have a book dedicated to the Breguet XIX, yet it's probably my all time favourite aircraft. So many aircrews from so many different nations broke records in this aircraft. 

 

I wanted to ask you; what are the visible differences between French built Lorraine engined Breguet XIX, and Spanish licence built Elizalde Lorraine engined aircraft? Is there a difference in the cowl? Size of rear  fabric area?

 

I only have a Mercado drawing (1982) and it's not very helpful :(.

 

Best regards

TonyT

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Hi Tony,

Thank you for the link .

Regarding Elizalde/Lorrain differenies. I am not consider myself anyy serious  expert on Breguet XIX. However, what I've read suggest that main difference is only in cover of fuselage: CASA build machines has fabric on sides and bottom at whole cockpit area (on top there is still metal) whereas original French has metal cover ending at end of gunner position. The ledder (steps) are in different location, moved a bit toward end in CASA. I have not noticed more differencies as yet.

BTW - I noticed a mistake frequently repeated in scheme of Republican "148" mashine. On colour profiles people show the red belt on rear part of fuselage, going on some angle. I found photos of this machine, where this belt starts as horizontal below engine and then it turns down...

Best regards

J-W

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Hi,

I painted first layer of Humbrol 63

bregDSC05858bregDSC05857

The upper wing on position but not glued yet:

bregDSC05856

 

After some hour it was already like that (second layer applied, white tip and rudder)

bregDSC05863bregDSC05862bregDSC05861

 

And Breguet 19.8

Upper wing with ailerons engraved some correction needed - edit 3.07.2017: I made is like for Breg 19.7 not 19.8, it was corrected later)

bregDSC05859

 

Lower wings are glued, upper on position without glue as yet:

bregDSC05864

 

bregDSC05865

 

Ok, end of photo break - back to work on model... :)

Cheers

J-W

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JW this is really impressive modelling - far more interesting and rewarding than building a load of fancy expensive after - market products.

I've tried breathing life into a few simple kits like SMER tiger moth etc and enjoyed the challenge, but your results are seriously impressive! 

PLUS...... you end up with 2 of them!

Well done, keep it up!

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Rob, many thanks for support :)

Report from progress after week-end (only CASA- Breguet)

breg DSC05925breg DSC05926breg DSC05927

As you can see riging is not finished yet.

The struts I have to extend by about 5 mm. It menas that likely the designer of model assumed a bit digfferent angles of wing. I made lower wing totally flat, as I see this on photos...

 

 

I found  saved once the color profile for this machine from the photo (lower one)::

breg%2019%2049852574_zps2kcks1q9.jpg

There are small differences with my interepretation - I will follow this profile, since I think author of it has much better quality of original shot. 

What I do not know is about electric instalation. Had she lamps? Had it wind electric generator? The MG I think in Spanish CASA-Bregs was single. Any suggestions wil be welcome.

Regards

Jerzy-Wojtek 

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I found this 

IMG_20170618_231257

With the information -

IMG_20170618_231309

It looks like a little red wingtip light, but the very top of the fin is not visible.

In this cutaway drawing, there's a nav light on the fin.

IMG Bre19 B2 (1926) cutaway

 but nothing on the wing!

Pic 1 shows the Sphinx logo on the tail.

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