IDF 'Droids'

[PhilHendry]

 

So-called 'Droids' on modern IDF armour... Obviously, I'd like to know what they do and how they work, but everything I've read suggests that, unsurprisingly, the Israelis are keeping that info under wraps - and I don't blame them. I'm fairly sure they're a different system from the 'Trophy' active defence system. I assume, from the look of the thing and its positioning, that the Droid is the 'visible' component of  some sort of 360° warning/surveillance system.

 

 

Leaving all that speculation aside, there are conversion sets aplenty available from the likes of Legend and E.T. Model. I have seen a few photos of vehicles carrying them - an Achzarit, a Merkava 2D, a Merkava 4, a Nagmachon 'Doghouse'. What other vehicles carry them? And are there photos anywhere on the www - either they are really rare, or my Google-fu has failed me?

 

They're a really cool object, but I don't want to fit  one to a model and then find I shouldn't have!

[Kingsman]

Trophy is a hard-kill system: it fires an interceptor projectile at detected threats.  On Merkavas the units are mounted either side of the turret.  Black Dog do a set for that, which is better value when bundled with their M4 basket set (both available separately).  The launcher is covered up in this photo.  The octagonal panel is one of the sensors, most likely active electronically scanned millimetric wave radar.

 

The Droid, also known as Windbreaker, is a soft-kill system.  As you say, information is hard to find.  I believe it is a laser dazzle system to disorient IR and laser homing ATGM so that they miss  That would explain the multiple apertures giving full-azimuth coverage and also explain why it is always mounted high with a full 360deg view.  Trophy and Droid can be used in combination.  If Droid can deflect a missile, Trophy doesn't need to kill it.  But an anti-IR system doesn't work against radar or wire-guided missiles (it might work against TV guidance) or unguided ballistic threats.  So Trophy comes into play here. They work against relatively slow-moving missiles but neither of them work against high velocity KE penetrators like APDS.

 

In kit terms, I believe that the Legend offerings are better than the Voyager.  Legend had more parts and more brass, but is much fiddlier to get right.  Legends are more monobloc, but are nicely done.  Legend also do different versions with different mountings for different platforms, although why they couldn't just do one with all the mountings or a separate mounting set beats me.

 

In terms of what platforms carry it, as with most things IDF you need to scour photos.  Both Trophy and Droid are most likely to be carried by MBTs and the heavy APCs.  There are other hard-kill systems such as Iron Fist and Iron Curtain for lighter vehicles and apparently a laser-based anti-IED system, possibly used on Pumas.  I have heard of Pumas carrying Droid but I don't think I've ever seen a photo.

 

I see you've also posted over on Armorama.  Check out this thread on that site: http://www.armorama.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=251965&page=1

[Kingsman]

I stand corrected.  On your parallel Armorama thread someone has posted a photo of a Puma with both a Droid and the Thor anti-IED system mounted on the OWS.

[PhilHendry]

Thank you! All duly filed away for (near) future reference!

 

This Israeli stuff is just so cool.

[Kingsman]

I've just realised I made a mistake in a post above about Droid kits.  It's the Voyager one that has more parts and more brass but is fiddlier.  I said Legend by mistake.  I think I also saw a note somewhere that the Voyager one is undersize.

[BringUpThePIAT]

On 5/14/2017 at 3:27 PM, Das Abteilung said:

 Trophy and Droid can be used in combination.  If Droid can deflect a missile, Trophy doesn't need to kill it.  But an anti-IR system doesn't work against radar or wire-guided missiles (it might work against TV guidance) or unguided ballistic threats.  So Trophy comes into play here.

Has it ever been done? Trophy and Droid/Windbreaker on the same vehicle? would have to be something huge like an MBT, right? 

[Kingsman]

Trophy is only fitted to Merkava and Namer, both big wagons.  You'd need to do some image surfing to see if you can find it done.

[spruecutter96]

On a (kinda) related, but different subject, there is an air-borne anti-heat-seeking missile system which is computer controlled. From what I've read, the system generates a laser which burns out the seeker-head on the missile and causes it to miss its target. 

 

I remember walking around a US Air Force Hercules at an air-show several years ago. I asked one of the crew about the system and he made it very clear that he was unable to talk about it (in a polite manner). A couple of the other crew-men gave me a very funny look, too. I found this a bit strange as I'd read an article in Air Forces Monthly magazine about how the system worked some months earlier. If a commercially-available magazine can describe it, then it occurred to me that it can't be that secret...   

 

I got a similar response when I asked an American air-crew member about the range of an AMRAAM missile. It was nothing that a quick Google search wouldn't provide. 

 

Chris. 

[Troffa]

I suspect Chris refers to DIRCM 

 

https://www.northropgrumman.com/what-we-do/air/an-aaq-24v-dircm-directional-infrared-countermeasure/

[Kingsman]

I believe he does.  Laser dazzle devices like that are not uncommon as defensive aids on otherwise-unarmed aircraft.  Certainly on transport aircraft, especially VIP transports. Usually in conjunction with other systems like flare and chaff dispensers and radar warning receivers.  I believe that some airliners operating in high terrorist threat areas even carry them.

 

This is essentially the same technology as the Droid.  "Burning out" is perhaps a bit of an over-statement.  You'd need a strong laser to do that.  They basically disrupt the seeker head by essentially whiting it out so that it cannot discriminate a specific heat source.

[spruecutter96]

Thanks for the clarification, Das Abteilung. I think I've seen a similar system carried on some RAF Hercules, too. 

 

Chris.  

[exdraken]

On 3/16/2021 at 9:53 PM, spruecutter96 said:

On a (kinda) related, but different subject, there is an air-borne anti-heat-seeking missile system which is computer controlled. From what I've read, the system generates a laser which burns out the seeker-head on the missile and causes it to miss its target. 

 

I remember walking around a US Air Force Hercules at an air-show several years ago. I asked one of the crew about the system and he made it very clear that he was unable to talk about it (in a polite manner). A couple of the other crew-men gave me a very funny look, too. I found this a bit strange as I'd read an article in Air Forces Monthly magazine about how the system worked some months earlier. If a commercially-available magazine can describe it, then it occurred to me that it can't be that secret...   

 

I got a similar response when I asked an American air-crew member about the range of an AMRAAM missile. It was nothing that a quick Google search wouldn't provide. 

 

Chris. 

Point is crew hardly ever know what part of their knowledge is public knowledge and what is absolute secret. The easy and soldier proof solution not to give info at all.

 

I do not think that there is a reliable public source out there that gives AMRAAM range AND exact launch conditions AND kill probability...

[Paws4thot]

On 16/03/2021 at 20:53, spruecutter96 said:

the range of an AMRAAM missile. It was nothing that a quick Google search wouldn't provide. 

What makes you think that Wikipedia, or even Jane's, show the actual effective or maximum range of an in-service missile type? Note that the maximum range will vary with the air speed, attitude and altitude of the firing aircraft.